WHY do tent designers still make dumb designs?

Crawling in and laying down to sleep. Invariably, any of the smaller front entrance tents (<48″ peak heights) means crawling in and turning around.  Limited space makes this an interesting yoga exercise.

Side entrances are worse. You always sleep with the tent about 8″ from your face and all the condensation from breathing as it slides along the outer surface, up and out.

Strong disagree with JM’s side entrance comment. I’d much rather have the bugnet close to my face when laying down that doing front entrance yoga. To be fair, I don’t get a lot of bugnet in my face in any tent at 5’6”.

I can see that in a full-on double walled tent. Doesn’t work with the Zpacks solo tents, though.

Dumb pack designs:

• Arc the back panel for ventilation, pushing the load further away from my body. Example: Osprey Exos

Different people like different things and want different designs depending on where they are hiking and what their goals are.

My biggest complaint about Tents is not so much about tent designers but tent companies who make excellent tent models and then discontinue these models every couple years, to be replaced with new models.

There are exceptions of course, like North Face’s VE24/VE25 series—and some of the old style Hilleberg tents (Keron tunnel, Staika dome etc).

For decades I used either North Face or Mt Hardwear tents and these companies are the worst when it comes to dumping a model for no real reason.  Anyone remember the great NF Tuolumne or Sierra A-frame tents?  Flushed down the toilet.  How about the outstanding Westwind?  Gone.  Canyonlands?  What happened?

And then there’s Mt Hardwear.  My first was the Muir Trail tent, a frog-style thing.  Discontinued.  Then I got the nice Light Wedge 2—beautiful wedge thing.  Tossed in the trash bin of history.  Then I got the single wall Mountain Jet.  Discontinued.  Then I got the Hammerhead 3—great two man tent.  Want one now?  Good luck.

Instead of finding a model which works and improving it year by year like Hilleberg does with their tunnel tents—these companies seem spooked by something unclear and run screaming from their very own products.  Mystifying.

Tents as fashionable accessories instead of tools.

@James Marco – RE: side entry tents close to your face.

I own a ZPacks Hexamid Twin tent circa 2012, and I agree.  Single wall tent designs that use a single pole located in the center of the tent are now a turn-off for me.  I won’t buy a MLD pyramid design or any other ZPacks tent for this reason.

I love my TarpTent Stratospire 2.  The offset poles create much higher angles on the end-walls and help keep the fabric off the face of the occupants.  Some difficulty setting up is my only downside for the SS2.

It’s why I also like the look of the similarly designed Durston X-Mid and the Sierra Designs High Route (v1 and v2).

I (just barely) got in on the MassDrop for the X-Mid solo, and will be eager to see what Dan does for a 2-person design.

@Tipi – I wonder it doesn’t have to do with who the product designers are.

When Michael Glavin returned to Sierra Designs, they revived a lot of the side entry “wedge” tent designs of theirs like the “Tensegrity” and the FlashLight.  He’s gone again, and they’ve all disappeared.  Must have been a pretty big market failure.

So I’m wondering – do different lead product designers come in with their own ideas, and wanting to “make their mark”, push their own design ideas?

I hear of this happening a lot in other realms, like automotive and software (my field).  Upper level managers push their agenda.   IF they leave or things re-org, different designs and ideas are suddenly pushed instead.

From an outsider looking in, it has to appear like the company has schizophrenia.

“Poles that run under the fly that require inner tent set up first, then the fly. What if it’s raining like hell on set-up of tear-down?? DUH!”

You mean like the aforementioned VE 24/25, plus TON of venerable tent designs over the past 40 years??  Why not just throw the fly over everything & buckle in a couple corners, then hoop the poles underneath. Been there, done that for many many years. I would not call that “poor tent design” by a longshot.

Sure, it might add to the set up time a little depending on the situation. BUT, having those guy lines not “attach” to the tent frame – regardless of how the tent is framed. That’s “half-baked” design to me.  Remember: some sleeved geodesic tents are so bloody strong that a guyline or two are practically cosmetic. All the lateral force is driven into the ground, so just make sure the thing is pinned in place to reduce uplift.

And wedge tents with tapered fronts:  I still use my Bibler Eldorado. It’s small & compact and yeah that exposed entry could suck in foul weather – but that’s what a detachable vestibule is for, not to mention that shape is surprisingly good for shedding headwind. If the wind is too strong at one end, I exit the door at the other side – no biggie. Sadly BD doesn’t make two door models anymore.

Being in the Architectural profession, I’d never agree that a person’s opinion of “poor design” is entirely subjective – it is possible to evaluate the success/failure of a design buy understanding the original “intent” that the owners/creators had in mind. And some good designs get poorly implemented. There are many examples of “bad implementation” in the outdoor equipment world, imho.

And Tipi – I still have that ole WestWind. I let the kids bring it out once in a while. It sill “does it’s thing” very, very well.

How about the outstanding Westwind? Gone.

Best space and weight efficient two person winter tent I ever slept in. Still have it, but it was retired 20 years ago after the fly started degrading.

“Tents as fashion accessories…”

Fortunately not everyone does this. In Scotland Blacks have been producing the classic Force 10 series for over 50 years, with continuous availability of a wide range of spares. I used it as a kid, and that was a looong time ago. They built a solid market with schools and Scouts and just kept it rolling with the occasional tweak. You wonder why more companies don’t do this.

https://www.blacksofgreenock.co.uk/27-force-ten-classics

We have a Lunar Duo and while I like the tent, I do not like that in the rain you are left to fuss around trying to figure out which end of the little tubes open up so you can slide in the spreader poles. While you are fussing with that, rain is falling all over what will soon be the inside of the tent.

I once borrowed a Contrail-style tent and absolutely fumed with anger every day when somehow I had to fling open the sopping wet doors, which would not stay open, and as I crawled out, they would flop onto my back and give me a dripping wet cold car wash. Every freaking time. And at 5’3″ tall there was only one tiny spot inside the tent where I could sit upright at all. God forbid if anything ended up at the far end of the tent. I couldn’t reach it without getting wet touching the ceiling.

This is a good greatest hits list. We should work out the patterns make a diy catalog.

I’ve got a Sierra Designs Tiros 2 hiding in the garage.  I pitched it in the back yard recently – first time it’s been out of the bag in probably ten years.  PU has gotten a bit sticky, but fine otherwise.

I had an old Vaude tent, bought while I was in Germany, back in my bike touring days. The thing weighed, IIRC, around 7 pounds (it was a two-person tent, I’ve always valued my room). Loved that thing, it was a great shelter. The first I ever owned that was a fly-and-inner pitched together shelter. Have favored such shelters ever since (have owned many single wall shelters, which I kind of consider the same sort of thing).

“tent designers but tent companies who make excellent tent models and then discontinue these models every couple years, to be replaced with new models.”

Back when I thought I would start backpacking I bought what I thought was a lightweight tent – Alps Mountaineering Zephyr 2. It’s like 5 pounds but it’s an awesome tent for $100. And looks like it’s still being sold, still getting good reviews.

An echo of Tipi Walters whinge, why did Eureka stop making the best value tunnel tent on the market?

While the Caddis may not have been the “best” tent it was very good value for money and strong enough for most peoples purposes, imitation being the most sincere form of flattery there were multitudinous clones but none of them quite as good as the original.

Ditto for the original full fabric versions of the FireLite and Flash

I have an old one in the shed [ the large 4P version] I was hoping to clone into a 4 pole stretched version but so far not got the time or money to invest

“We have a Lunar Duo and while I like the tent, I do not like that in the rain you are left to fuss around trying to figure out which end of the little tubes open up so you can slide in the spreader poles. While you are fussing with that, rain is falling all over what will soon be the inside of the tent.”

My wife and I use the Lunar Duo as well, Diane.  Love it but have been equally frustrated by the “spreader pole pocket” issue.  We don’t use it often enough for my old brain to remember which end is open.  Makes me wonder if sewing a small tab to the outside of the tent indicating which side it slips in would be helpful(?).  Doesn’t negate the fact that you still have to turn the peak of the tent inside out to get the poles in…while its pouring!  Might make it a bit quicker though.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.  I’d love to pick through Tipi’s gear closet!

I’ll add to the Smart Designs list:

@jjmcwill – consider the Yama Swiftline in the offset two-pole category, along with the Stratospire and High Route (and X-Mid). The asymmetry of Gen’s design is off-putting to some, but I find it well thought-out and considered, not to mention strong.

It held up great in some big prairie winds in December, and took on 8″ of snow the other night in the backyard (I wasn’t in it!). Only maybe half of the vestibules area felt the weight, the main interior space was unaffected.

Eric, I’m starting to sound like you with your TT Moment. Sometimes you just find your tent (until it’s discontinued, apparently).

I suspect that there are few flat-out bad designs these days – it’s more about matching the shelter to your preferences and conditions.

For example, many US models are inner first pitches, which is a big no-no in Scotland, where you’d get regularly soaked. But in the SW US it rarely rains, and you can use the inner to camp under the stars. Again, with many US tents the fly doesn’t pitch down to the ground. On the exposed Scottish hills they would blow away, but for the many US users who never camp above the treeline the ventilation is welcome.

I don’t mind the contortions required to enter a front loader, but hate sleeping with the fly inches from my face. So an A-frame suits me fine. Other people want easier entry and don’t mind the fly close to their head and feet, and would only use a side-entry design.

Some people want comfort and space to spread out. Others prefer a small footprint and a snug, bivy-like experience

And so on. Clearly there are some dumb design decisions out there, but on the whole I suspect that most problems are simply caused by people choosing the wrong shelter for the job.

I think that this comment from Mike Cecot-Scherer well explains the point :

As a resumé of sorts, here’s the simple list of what I’ve worked on* but please note that these products were tasked with specific requirements that embody the vision, sensibilities and immediate needs of their respective brands and the employees who manage and sell them.

What follows is a very long list of tents using all sorts of features, materials and designs.

http://thetentlab.com/didthat/resumeofsorts.html

My version goes back to the : you can’t please all of the people all of the times.

Oh another tent memory: Bought a tube tent back in the 70s. How can you go wrong with a $2 ultralight tent? (I don’t remember what it cost but it was super cheap.) Well, it rained the night I slept in it and without any doors, I got pretty wet.

Tube tents are disasters unless you are trying to survive one – and even then I’d think twice. Personal experiences include:

• Getting everything inside wet while sleeping on a desert mountain peak. Tube tents catch condensation very efficiently, especially the ones made from clear plastic.
• Even 1960s-1970s heavy plastic gets holes from rocks etc., and holes beget leaks, and leaks mean the inside gets wet when the ground is wet or rain is running through camp.
• Having one end collapse and nearly suffocate me. Run your line through the tube tent, not attached to tabs at each end.
• Having the far end collapse and freeze shut overnight because I still thought tabs could work.

Best uses for tube tents – slit them from one end to the other, and use as a groundsheet or rig as a tarp.

Wonder how long we’ll wait until someone re-invents past mistakes crossed with trendy technology and puts a $500 DCF tube tent on Kickstarter?

— Rex

The Oval Intention was a watershed product that altered the course of tent design in architecture, construction, and materials (particularly in the use of arrowshaft aluminum poles.)

Good discussion on the evolution of the North Face Oval Intention tent.

https://www.outinunder.com/content/oval-intention-walkthrough-lp-version

“Wonder how long we’ll wait until someone re-invents past mistakes crossed with trendy technology and puts a $500 DCF tube tent on Kickstarter?”

If it’s only $2 and orange, I’ll buy one!