- Nov 3, 2017 at 6:07 am #3500018
The crew leader and I worked with a plan that would divide out all the gear pretty evenly among everybody, scouts and adults included. We’re a small-ish crew (6 scouts, 3 adults), so we kind of worked it out so that everybody has a base weight of under 24 pounds.
But I’ve read a few things that indicate that maybe the Scouts are supposed to carry all the crew gear? I’m hoping that’s not true, as it shifts things about significantly. Can anybody confirm or deny?
Thanks in advance,
.Nov 3, 2017 at 6:39 am #3500023
Bob ShuffBPL Member
Why not have adults carry the first aid and accessories, and leave the pots, cookware, ropes to the scouts?
Size of crew and age/strength of scouts should be considered, ideally by the scouts themselves. I think the Rangers want to avoid the advisors running the show.
Everyone has to carry their share of tent, food, Bear bag, etc.Nov 3, 2017 at 7:57 am #3500028
“Size of crew and age/strength of scouts should be considered, ideally by the scouts themselves. I think the Rangers want to avoid the advisors running the show.”
Yeah, the crew leader pretty much had it down, but he divided the crew gear up among everybody, I’m just trying to verify that’s copacetic. He did a great job, if there’s no reason to change it, then we’d prefer to leave well enough alone.Nov 3, 2017 at 1:12 pm #3500049
Jay LashBPL Member
If your CL came up with the plan then go with it.
Each time Ive been we had a full crew (8y+4a on one trek, 9y+3a on the other) but the adults carried our share. Granted our share was not much because we had a full crew – I think I carried the tarp on one trek and the first aid kit on the other. Plus, of course, food split with our meal buddy.
If it is clear to the ranger that the youth are in charge and the adults are staying in the background, she will be happy.
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:37 pm #3500056
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Jay Lash.
TAG in AZBPL Member
There is no hard and fast rule. On our trip this year, the crew carried most of the daily use gear – things like bear bags, pots, tarps, etc. Our adults had the 1st aid training, so we carried the 1st aid kit. We also carried random stuff — basically the extra stuff.Nov 3, 2017 at 3:17 pm #3500068
Matt DirksenBPL Member
@namelesswayLocale: Mid Atlantic
“If your CL came up with the plan then go with it.”
+1 to that – although as an adult adviser, it would be good to “advise” the crew leader on the idea that some kids won’t be able to carry as much crew gear as others (baseweight or otherwise), and that all members (adults included), should be willing and able to adapt, in order to support folks who are having a harder time.
When my son went in 2014, he and another boy were 95/100 lbs., whereas the crew leader and the three other 17 year old boys were almost twice their size & stamina. Because of the imbalance, me & the other advisers pitched in. For the first couple days, my son and the other 95lb-er had a real tough time. But over time, they got better and some of the older boys were more fatigued. Every morning & mid-day, the crew checked in to see how everyone was feeling, and made adjustments as needed.Nov 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm #3500098
Jason YBPL Member
In 2014 we took 7 youth and 2 adults, Taking some crew gear was in my opinion only fair. Comfort on the trail is probably more important that saving a few pounds. I did prepare the crew to pack light. Be cautious how hard you push not carrying extra weight. Your crew may not want to carry non-personal gear.
Sounds silly but some of our crew tried to hit a pack weight number (and made sacrifices to meet that goal) now you ask them to carry crew gear and their plan has failed(and it’s your fault).
Make sure the crew you are helping to prepare knows about how much crew gear they each will be carrying to avoid any hurt feelings.
We had a scout who was out of shape and felling the effects of altitude sickness. The crew split up his pack and each member carried 3 extra pounds for the first couple days. Accept that you are part of one crew (Brothers till the end). He did get his gear back to carry, but we were not going to leave a man behind. A good/positive attitude is like 10 pounds removed from each persons bag.
Make sure you provide weights for the split up crew gear. We made 9 piles of gear that all weighed the same. Each member chose a pile that would fit in there pack. Some of us had smaller packs and could not take the cook pots so we chose smaller more dense items like fuel canisters or bear lines that could be attached externally to a pack.
The greatest impact on how a crew does is how happy they are. Once your team truly becomes a crew nothing NOTHING can stop them!
Nov 6, 2017 at 5:06 pm #3500594
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Jason Y.
TAG in AZBPL Member
For pack sizing, I asked each member of the crew to make sure they had enough room in their pack for the pillow off their bed at home. That made sure they had enough room for crew gear and food pickup on the trail. This came in handy for us on our “heavy” day. On our heaviest day, we had 3.5 days of food heading into a dry camp. We had a few packs that we pushed to the max, but no one had to carry anything in their hands heading up to Schaefers Pass.
Make sure sharing the crew gear is part of every discussion and every shakedown hike. By time we got to Philmont, there wasn’t any question about carrying crew gear. As Jason mentioned, we make roughly equal piles during shakedown at basecamp and everyone picked one. Things shifted a bit as we went along, butNov 7, 2017 at 6:32 pm #3500854
Brad PBPL Member
I’m appreciating the advice here, particularly the “enough room for a pillow” in the pack.
When we go in 2019, we’ll have a young crew and I’m not sure how many youth we’ll have to split up the gear. I anticipate adults taking on some of the load.
overloaded scouts and we need to point that out to the crew leader if the crew leader
Our primary role as adult leaders is safety. It’s a safety issue if there are doesn’t see it.Nov 8, 2017 at 7:04 pm #3501063
We had our first “official Philmont shakedown hike,” I didn’t think of pillows, we told everybody to bring their personal gear, packed, then we gave everybody two one-gallon bottles of water at the trailhead. At 16 pounds, that represented 6 pounds of food, 6 pounds of crew gear, and a liter of cooking water.Nov 8, 2017 at 8:55 pm #3501090
David YBPL Member
Philmont is the Scouts’ adventure and they need own it.
No matter how much weight you pack on the Scouts they can still (but don’t) walk off and leave the adults in their dust. The Scouts should carry all their crew gear and each Scout carry and be responsible for the same gear items the entire trek. Adults only carry their person gear. After a day or two everyone knows where everything is and set-up and take-down becomes automatic.
After a commissary pick-up there may be so much food that it all won’t fit in the Scouts’ packs so the adults pick-up the slack. But by the next morning, and every morning thereafter, the Crew Leader should fairly (according to ability) re-distributed all the food among all the Scouts.
During the year before we go we conduct 4 shakedown trips of two nights and 10+ miles using all the techniques and methods needed at Philmont. We have all the Philmont crew gear, use some of Philmont’s surplus meals and duplicate others with super market trail foods.
All our troop backpacking trips are done the Philmont way, train them the right way the first time and you won’t have to re-train them.
We understand and believe in Philmont’s methods and techniques.
“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured”, David YoungNov 8, 2017 at 10:19 pm #3501107
Gerry HBPL Member
@geeteehLocale: East coast
Youth decide what is fair. If the youth say the adults carry a portion, carry it.
I believe you won’t find any youth that truly believe the advisors are “on vacation” and won’t let them carry at least some food. I know for a fact that my son has already mentioned that I need to carry my share.
The youth are not porters and bell-hops, nor are the advisors frail. It is the scouts’ adventure, but nobody MADE that particular adult go on the trek, they volunteered.
Team spirit and morale require everyone with a pulse to follow the 12 points.Nov 9, 2017 at 1:51 am #3501163
David YBPL Member
Charles L scout3801
Read and believe Philmont’s Guidebook to Adventure, Council and Unit Planning Guide, Crew Leader and Adult Advisor guide sheets and listen, at least with a grain of salt, to experienced people’s advice.
Gerry H geeteeh, whoa, don’t get your bandana in a wad.
Have you been to Philmont yet? I think the reason people ask questions on these forums is to get good advice from those with experience.
During Ranger training what I posted will be explained to you and is Philmont’s philosophy. If it were not for Two Deep Leadership and transportation to and from requirements adults would not be needed at Philmont, also Philmont’s philosophy.
“Philmont should be enjoyed not endured”, David YoungNov 14, 2017 at 11:28 am #3502052
Nate WardBPL Member
@tdawardLocale: The woods of the South
On my previous three treks the adults did their share. I have had a Philmont Ranger say ” you are part of this crew”…..meaning help with gear…help with decisions (when you need to)
Saw one person say “6lbs for crew gear” I plan on about 2lb to 4lbs, but we have ALL of our own crew gear that is much lighter than Philmonts issued stuff. Who caries the heavier items depends on that Scout’s size/abilities and their pack weights.
We have always carried our own food…it’s packaged by “two’s” so each tent gets their bags and they distribute them between themselves. I’ve also given each person their own bear bag to keep things separated. Once the items get low enough, each tent will combine into one BB. Makes the mornings much more efficient.
My two cents….may not work for all but it has worked for my three previous trips and that’s what we will do in ’18.Nov 15, 2017 at 11:30 pm #3502322
Terry HooverBPL Member
We divided it all up. Bulky items went to those with the larger packs. I guess if the boys just wanted to carry everything we might let them, but, they didn’t…
We used a 10L stuff sack to represent food…put enough stuff in it to make it weigh 8 lbs. 2 lbs/day x 4 days was about the largest food supply/resupply.
I do like the idea of the two one gallon water bottles to get everyone used to the volume requirements.
Eight lbs food, eight lbs water, and 2-4 lbs crew gear should be the absolute max weight for non personal items. Food works its way down as you eat it, and 4 liters of water is generally on the high side. I drink a lot so generally started with 4 liters (2-3 in a camelbak and the rest in water bottles). I was initially worried about having to “refill” the camelbak while on the move; however, I always started with it full and then just refilled it at camp at night. If I picked up extra water during the day I would just use my water bottles (one Nalgene and a 2L platy). Regarding the Nalgene, I found that filling a platy or camelbak out of a tank or stream is quite difficult. Worth it to have one Nalgene on hand.
Sorry for getting off the OP question.
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