Where has the suffering gone??? : (

Nick – I never “signed up” for UL or suffering.

Exactly, I signed up for ideas. I tried a bivy once. My backpacking buddy is my wife and she said never again. I have tarped but living in Minnesota I also had to bring a net tent so now we just use a tent. I’ve never been big on suffering and am not as tough as Nick so I carry a little more and my wife carries less. We are not into big miles, start early and finish early. We like hot meals and coffee. I do nicely on 1.5# per day and Mary uses about 1.2#. We usually go for 6 days at ages 66 and 70. At the start of a trip I am in the 22-24# range (depends on Tenkara gear) and Mary is close to 20# (guesstimated- we don’t weigh any more). The big thing BPL has done for us is getting the weight down to where we intend to backpack for quite awhile yet.

Hey hey it was just a rainy Tuesday morning troll to help the day pass. HYOH

I didn’t know this activity was supposed to be masochism. I also don’t see it as a game where lowest score wins.

I haven’t been on here long, but my goal was to do this activity in an intelligent way. Maximize enjoyment through gear that works well and is light.

I don’t enjoy getting eaten by bugs.  I don’t enjoy shivering.  I don’t enjoy rain on me when I’m sleeping.

What works for me doesn’t work for everyone.  I hope this site provides good information to all who seek the best for their hikes.

My suffering ended when I found BPL! Cutting 30+ pounds of pack weight off what I had been carrying in my unenlightened days has been both an adventure and a delight. Like everybody else who’s taken this journey I’ve tried some UL gear and techniques that didn’t really work for me, but you learn and move on. Nowadays, my kit is fine-tuned for my style and pace of backpacking and there’s really no suffering at all.

There use to be a BPL bumper sticker that read who dies with the lightest pack wins.

If it feels like hiking and not hauling I think you’re OK

I agree Brad. When I started out hiking, late in life (age 45)  I started with 45 lbs, without food or water.  I am 5’3″ and at that time I was 125 lbs.  Over the last 20 years I have obsessed with my pack weight and have gotten it down to 18-20 lbs. depending on where I am going.  I admit I did try carrying a monach chair and it was nice to have something to sit in at end of day, but have since put that in my boundary waters gear where I can take more gear in the canoe.  I now carry a homemade stadium chair that weighs<8 oz. It has no padding so I use my sit pad on the bottom.  It’s well worth the weight. Sometimes a few creature comforts are important as we age.

No more suffering!

https://andrewskurka.com/2012/is-lightweight-backpacking-label-dead/

http://popupbackpacker.com/the-death-of-ultralight-backpacking/

or is it?

Daivd said “The big thing BPL has done for us is getting the weight down to where we intend to backpack for quite awhile yet.”

EXACTLY.

Lightweight cameras only $1,500

It’s not he who dies with the lightest pack who wins.

Its he (or she) who dies with the biggest smile wins.

A lighter pack is only a part if the equation.

No, no, its “lightest pack wins”.  Dyneema Jesus tells us so

Actually, the lighter I got the more comfortable I got. And not just from carrying a lighter load. I dialed in what was essential (good sleeping pad!-exped) and what wasn’t (heavy wool layer). Actually I lost a few layers after I started carrying a bigger puffy-that makes the best pillow ever! Saved weight and I’m warmer. And I patched together a super comfortable 2 lbish pack that carries my Bearikade (essential) like a dream while keeping weight off my shoulders and spine.

There’s a half dozen examples. I’m a happy camper. Lightweight, but not UL.

p.s. no guns (ya think?!!) or electronics or phones except for a first issue Kindle strictly for reading, no backlight so it doesn’t need recharging. the Kindle is just a two ounces or so heavier than a book, that I have to have!

I like to suffer under a big load if it means I can stay out backpacking for 20+ days.  My food load alone is 45 lbs or more.  For me the best trips are long with no resupply.

Doug Wolfe says “Let’s get back to being labeled as minimalists who can bang out 30+ miles a day.”

But it’s not a competition and most of us are not endurance athletes—although humping a 90 lb pack every day could certainly also be considered some type of endurance athleticism.

There’s a tendency nowadays for endurance athletes to define and represent Modern Backpacking—and so these types are put on a pedestal as Outdoor Heroes.  Such backpackers are applauded by sympathetic sycophants and elevated to the top rung of backpacking—and so we have the obsession with Fast & Light and Pack Less Be More and 30 mile days etc etc.

Alex H and John H mention Reddit but as far as I can tell the Reddit discussion platform is unusable unless you love the infinity of Deep Scrolling—as Reddit doesn’t separate their UL discussions into Forum subjects like here on BPL.

The only reason I started going UL or LW was because I was no longer paid to hump a 90lb pack like I was when I was in the Marine Corps. It became a little obit of an obsession for aa while then I realized that Even if my base pack weight was around 10-15 Id be happy. I know what I need and what I dont. I think most people just need to find their happy place in what they are willing to haul around and where they are comfortable. If that place is a 20lb worth of gear or 5lb to each their own.

Maybe the changes are complicated?

First, as others said, how often can you have the same Conversation, especially when people often remind others of forums rules regarding the search engine?

Second, not everyone wants to be UL but they do like the idea of getting lighter so they look at all the ideas and pick the few that will work for them. Maybe it’s just reducing the weight of the “big three” that they were looking for so they can keep their pillow, or the Bushcraft chair you just need to lash a few sticks together to make work?

Third I think an attitude I perceived in the OP could be part of the problem. Let’s say I was REALLY interested in getting UL BUT I saw people espousing a “superior” attitude, others getting into semantic debates as to whether “Light weight” starts at a base weight under 20 or 15 lbs (I see that sometimes). Elitism seems to happen far more easily in the online environment and that can be a turn off to new people and it’s new people that help to keep forums like this feeling fresh. Now me, I am close to 50 now but back in the day I was a hard core gamer. That had a lot of that elitist stuff so I am used to it and can kinda let it roll down my back. Not everyone is like that though.

WHERE HAS THE SUFFERING GONE??? 

Is thread about Catholic school education or something????  :)

I love to walk, be outside, and sleep under the stars.

Never occurred to me to make suffering part of the experience.

Then again, I am an ex-Catholic. So there’s that.

Where has the suffering gone?  Well, many dayhikers travel absurdly light and end up suffering . . . supremely . . .

This is just one story out of hundreds—and points out the pitfalls of uber- ultralight hiking—

https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/2018/02/27/deputy-dead-hiker-wasnt-prepared-cold-wet-weather/376710002/

HYOH, as they say.  Of course I know the OP’s post was made tongue-in-cheek.  But the website is BackpackingLIGHT, not BackpackingULTRALIGHT.  Some people just don’t mind carrying a 12lb load.  At that point, most of the “extra” strain on your joints from carried weight is negligible.  And plenty of options for comfort and safety.

For me the advantage of UL is mental simplicity.  Mo’ gear, mo’ problems.  Fewer things, less fiddle.

What really gets me is that most people don’t realize UL is cheaper than LW.  A $150 15oz sil tarp and bivy combo is a hell of a lot cheaper than a $400 freestanding tent from REI.  Frameless packs are almost universally cheaper than their framed counterparts.  And CCF vs. inflatable mats? No question.

I think the price misconception is one of the greatest barrier of entry to UL.  Its just simply not true that you need a $600 DCF tent to be UL.  There’s the saying that “nothing weighs nothing”.  Nothing also costs nothing too.  So carry fewer things, save money and carry less.

Eric: that ccf pad? Suffering. That frameless pack? Suffering. And that bivy…you get the point.

when I was in my 20’s and could have gotten away with all that I didn’t know about UL. too bad!

Jeffrey: True! I know not everyone can be comfortable with the “cheap” minimal UL gear set.  And for most people it doesn’t make sense.  As I said, at Lightweight pack loads, the strain on your body has been considerably mitigated.  I believe the extra 5lb savings moving to UL weight is of marginal benefit, from a joint-saving perspective.

My larger point was simply about how UL isn’t necessarily more expensive.  For those willing to “suffer” a bit, UL is way cheaper than the more “comfortable” gear.  Personally, the most comfortable camp for me is reclining on a 5/8″ CCF pad, back propped up against a tree with a cozy fire to warm my legs and reading an e-book on my phone.  You all can keep your aluminum camp stools and air mats you’re afraid of getting a bit of dirt or embers on!

Suffering while backpacking seems to be for people with cush lives, indoor jobs and the need to prove something.

If there is to be suffering I’M FOR SHORT SUFFERING, not longsuffering. Dyneema tents, diaphanous clothes, Pepsi can alky stoves, Neo-Air mattresses, carbon fiber hiking poles, etc. etc. “Light is right”.

Waiting patiently for Unobtanium tent and hiking poles.

Waiting patiently for UBER ESBIT tabs with 2x the heat.

Waiting IMpatiently for the world to act in unison to halt climate change. (B/C if we don’t then we are in for BAD suffering for a LONG time!)

I do have a cush job, and an indoor life, but it was suffering that led me there, after working in fields, restaurants and a glove patching factory. I don’t need to suffer deliberately, which is why BPL. But I do believe that some people are truly tougher than others, they just are. Generally not those who make a show of it however.

All my suffering was when I was heavy…both my pack and my body.  I lost a lot of weight in both areas and then discovered that I had gone too far with my pack and was becoming less comfortable…cold, less storm worthy, not sleeping well, etc.  Added a few carefully selected additional ounces back in and I am again super comfy. Not only do I have no need for suffering in the backcountry, I can’t imagine why one would choose to inflict that on themselves.