What would be better than a Notch for me?

[Michael Ray]

I have been thinking of getting a bomber 3-season, 1-person shelter since I’ve been very lucky weather wise in my polycryo tarp with no extremely high winds or large hail and I like to camp in exposed places. While I like my space (I’m just 69″ but use Neoair Large since I roll around a fair bit) and spreading out my gear, I also need a small footprint since I’m often in very rocky areas. It must be side entry with at least 1 good-sized vestibule. It must have ability to pitch without the fly (or roll the fly back for starry views). It must be less than 32 oz all in. Must handle 50 MPH winds. So far the winner seems to be the Notch.

Runners up so far (IMHO) are the X-Mid and the REI Quarter Dome SL 1 (!?!?!) as its BPL review is what got me started down this path in the first place. What has turned me off on the X-Mid is the larger overall footprint and some have noted it’s harder to pitch on uneven ground and the taller pitch makes me think it would be rougher in high winds. The price of the X-Mid is very tempting though as I don’t want to spend over $300 (so I’d wait for a sale or buy used Notch) since I don’t get to camp a lot. The REI is closer to 37 oz all in from what I understand and doesn’t pack as small. I’d consider something like a Nemo Hornet 1 or BA Copper Spur (on sale), but my feeling is those aren’t as robust and don’t pack as small as the Notch (and my trekking poles wouldn’t be dual-use anymore LOL).

A major puzzle for me is Ryan Jordan noted the silnylon Notch was, “probably the best balance of weight and weather protection for any tent I own” in the comments of this Field Note when he expected a winter storm. However, that seems to totally contradict what he wrote earlier in his Notch Li review:

Having used the silnylon version of the Notch in snowy fringe-season conditions, I can’t say that it’s a shelter I’d recommend for any amount of snow. Silnylon simply has too much stretch, and more structure is needed to support it under even a small snow load. For any conditions where snow is expected, and I had to use a silnylon shelter, I’d upgrade to the Tarptent Stratospire 1 model, which offers additional stability afforded by more fabric stability resulting from an increased number of stake-out points. (my emphasis added)

Ryan hasn’t responded to that apparent contradiction yet.

Anyway, what would you recommend and why do you feel it would be superior to the Notch (based on my requirements)?

[Ryan Jordan]

Definitely worth a clarification, I wasn’t clear enough when comparing those two shelters in those articles. I’ll try to distill as simple as possible.

Silnylon sags when wet, that hurts snow loading.

Silnylon is stretchier which means it can be staked to higher levels of tension. That’s better for wind loading. It’s not enough to compensate for sag/snow loading.

Neither shelter will cope with extreme winter weather above the treeline, there’s still just too much fabric blowing around.

I can deal with snow loading “manually” (bang the snow off the shelter intermittently) but I can’t hack wind loading, so my preference for more extreme conditions is the silnylon version combined with some long (8″), stout stakes.

[Opogobalus]

If you’re going to be camping in hail and 50mph wind regularly I don’t know that a conventional ultralight tent is the right choice.

From what i’ve read over on trek-lite of people who’ve used both the notch and the x-mid, they’re pretty comparable for wind performance. The x-mid is taller, and has bigger panels, but it also pitches tight to the ground easier.

I did get a chance to pitch them side-by-side, and owned both briefly. Though the Notch is wider at it’s widest point, it does feel a little smaller overall, which might make it a tiny bit easier to squeeze onto tiny campsites. It does have a bit less space inside, of course.

The notch has slightly more volume in packed size. The bigger consideration is the struts, which many people really dislike for packing. I didn’t find it a big issue, I packed it vertically on one side of my bag (opposite side to where my bigger water bottle was stored) which help give my frameless pack more structure than my 1/4″ ccf pad.

 

The x-mid should do better in snow as the panels are steeper, and the silpoly material doesn’t sag anywhere near as much as silnylon when wet. It also means that the x-mid should be lighterweight if you need to pack it away wet, as it won’t be holding as much moisture.

 

Both are excellent shelters in very similar niches. I’d vote Notch if:

– Footprint is a huge concern – really the difference here is pretty minimal, and potentially the easier to pitch tent would vary site-to-site as the xmid is never as wide as the notch.
– truly extreme weather was a concern – the notch’s 30d silnylon should be tougher than the 20d silpoly
– the price was right
-weight was a premium – i think the current notch is an oz or so lighter than the x-mid. I had a 2017 notch which was 3-4oz lighter, which was very compelling.
-I wanted a solid inner

 

I’d go x-mid if
-wet snow was a common issue
-i wanted a little more space inside
-condensation was an issue (much bigger vents, more seperation between fly and inner and a much less saggy outer
-I wanted a fly that could pitch tight to the ground.

For small footprint, good wind performance, also check out the YMG cirriform, Trekkertent Stealth, or a 1p sized mid (mld, tipik, locus gear)

[Steve H]

@Opogobalus,

I have neither, but isn’t the X-Mid actually smaller inside than the Notch?  And/or at least feels narrower?  I would be very interested in this.  And a slightly larger footprint?  Talking 1p here.  Thanks.

[Michael Ray]

@ryan, thanks for the clarification. This won’t be used for winter or regular extreme conditions; I just need to survive the surprise extreme thunderstorms or snowstorms that CAN occur at any time (June-Sep for me) in the mountain West of the US. Rainstorms would be much more common than snow. I always use MSR Groundhogs for all major tieout points.

@opagobalus, thank you for your insights. I didn’t know the Notch was so difficult (impossible?) to pitch the fly lower. Why did you get rid of both the Notch and X-mid?

@hop, most of what I’ve read suggests the Notch is smaller inside. Apparently there’s a way to pitch the 1P X-mid inner to almost fit 2 pads.

I should have also noted I’ve not been a fan of straight mid designs (e.g., MLD Solomid) since I don’t want to have to move stuff out of the way if I need to get out while it’s pouring down though I do see on the Solomid XL page it specifically notes, “This offset design allows entry and exit in rainy conditions to help keep the sleep side of the shelter dry!,” so maybe I should consider it since I know MLD mids are highly regarded. I suspect its footprint is larger though and adding the inner puts it well above $300.

[J-L]

Ryan lists his opinions on wind-worthiness of several tents here (worth a look for some perspective): https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/solo-tent-recommendation-for-high-winds/page/2/#comments

I don’t think there is a shelter that meets all your requirements. Probably a Notch or X-Mid come closest. But with price, 32oz weight, 50mph wind performance, and small footprint, you’re going to have to compromise somewhere.

[Brad Rogers]

My vote would be the MLD Solomid XL or the MLD Duomid with Solomid Inner.  I also have (and like) the X-Mid, but it’s not any smaller than the Duomid in my opinion, and though it’s served me well, I don’t trust it as much as the Duomid in nasty weather.

 

[Todd T]

I didn’t know the Notch was so difficult (impossible?) to pitch the fly lower.

The Notch’s struts set the ends of the fly at a fixed (and close) height above the ground, while the points of the vestibule fly are a little higher due to the basic geometry.  Forcing those points lower causes the door fabric to go slack.  You can do it a little (shorten the poles a bit) but there’s a limit.

[Ryan Jordan]

If I knew I was going to be in a 50 mph wind AND need some snow loading, I’d stick with a small pyramid pitched with a dedicated, stiff carbon pole, DCF fabric (at least CT2E.08), a burly set of stakes for the four corners, +4 additional perimeter tieouts, +4 additional mid-seam tieouts (some makers will instead use mid-panel tie-outs). Add a solid fabric inner and you have a pretty decent winter storm setup for below the treeline. More finicky than something like a Notch, but more weather-resistant if needed.

[Opogobalus]

The notch is cut so the door isn’t quite as low, and the struts set the end height. I think some (maybe all newer?) versions of the notch have a fly that gets lower than the 2017 one I had. FYI I didn’t really think much about it, but it would probably be something I’d want in extreme winds.

Re size. I think the notch might be wider at the center of the tub, but the head and food end are narrower. It also felt like the fly was a bit closer to my face. So it felt like my head and feet were going into a tight tunnel vs the steeper inner walls of the notch.

I didn’t get rid of the xmid. I kept it. I got rid of the notch as life circumstances changed suddenly so I was forced to sell it – I’d wanted to use both a couple of dozen nights to decide what I preferred. The weight and seemingly smaller footprint of the notch were really hard to pass on. But since I only had to go on impressions from using both 2 nights each only I kept the x-mid because I prefer the space and the silpoly material. In more detail:

– I have a mid for minimalist travel where. This shelter is bug season or if I might be caught in multiple days of rain where I small shelter gets tedious. Therefore the extra size was the deal breaker. If I want a tiny footprint I have my mid. Additionally, I’m not certain how much real world difference the footprint of the notch would make in finding a site – as said it’s wider at its widest point so it might be just as limited, in a different way, in practice.

– I prefer the properties of silpoly. I haven’t used a silnylon tent (apart from the double rainbow, which due to the pole keeps itself taut) in a few years, and have become a little spoilt.
– on the 2017 version the gap between inner and fly was quite small along the ridge. Maybe an inch or two at most when pitched at a height I wanted. I didn’t actually fiddle with this enough to know if I could improve it. Combined with the higher risk of sag from a silpoly shelter it’s seemed like fly sagging into the winner and getting it wet was quite plausible.

I’m sad I sold the notch and didn’t get a chance to try it more-my version was 25oz, which for a non-DCF shelter this capable is incredible. But ultimately, having to make a snap decision, it crossed over too much with my “minimalist mid” niche shelter.

—-

 

as for mids. I have a Tipik Pioulou which is similar to the solomid. It’s footprint is a lot smaller. The xmid is similar to the duomid in footprint.

As for entering and exiting with gear.. I’ve always just spread my gear between the side of the front that I’m not opening as a door (so it’s not getting in the way) and the edges of the back of the tarp. I don’t use an inner. I find it plenty big enough for my kit and not in the way.

[Mole J]

I have both a zipped sil Notch(2017)  and an Xmid1P.

( I don’t rate the non zipped type in wind by accounts I’ve read)

 

They are both good shelters and will be suitable I think.

Both amazingly well designed.

I think most aspects/comparisons have been discussed and I mostly agree.

There is more headroom in the Xmid , yes it’s a bit narrower but the ends of each are similar width.

With similar suitable pegs n guys for nailing them down, the Notch is 100g lighter. And although a longer package than the XMid, it’s lower volume and packs easier in my experience. (We have 4 Tarptent models with struts and I am used to sliding them down inside one side of my pack outside the liner. It’s not a problem or issue in physical reality in my experience. The Notch just disappears into my pack leaving whereas the XMid is s big lump across it taking a fair volume.

If it’s just strong wind n rain , I’d take the Notch over the XMid. I think it sheds wind better. And being tall, due to Notch design, if I slide to one end I am not able to push to touch the outer, unlike in the XMid, where despite the big separation of inner and outer.  I discovered last week that strong wind gusts can bow the large end panels in on the Xmid  so outer sometimes touches the inner if my feet are against it.

 

Re lowering the Notch. I have mid hem tie outs on each 4 doors, with shockcord loops. I can get the Notch low and take up slack easily.  Not tight to the ground but low enough. (C110cm poles)

Re sag.

I’ve used a sil Notch and a Strat 2 100s of times. Often in lots of rain n wind.  Pitched correctly and hard n tight. Above freezing conditions I can honestly say that sag just NEVER happens . Just pitch it hard and tighten once fabric relaxes. Drum tight.  I’ve/we’ve experienced heavy all-night rain n wind dozens of times and the tent is as taut in the morning as the night before.

I see a lot of photos of badly, loosely pitched tents though… And in reality!

But the Silnylon definitely absorbs water . But it’s not a major issue to me. I’m used to carrying wet tents most of my life!

As a space to live in, the XMid is somewhat better. Less draughty, and more headroom.

XMid obviously going to be a better cold weather, snow tent.

And a more liveable space.

But XMid takes more real estate.  Sometimes that’s been a problem. Myself and a friend took both in the summer for a week, and every other night when searching for a pitch, the conversation went ” well there’s room for the Notch there, but not the XMid”

As a  mainly sleep only, take the wind , 3 season thruhiking tent, for me the Notch has the edge, and if I could only have one of the 2 it would be it. ( I have other tents for proper winter).

But I’m not shifting the XMid as I think it is useful too and a pleasant space. And a good single skin shelter – we’ve used it for 2 of us once head to toe.

( I’m in the UK and camp mostly above  our very low treeline)

[Brad Rogers]

Like I said  I do like my X-Mid but one complaint I have is I have a tough time envisioning my sleeping pad compared to the rest of the tent.   I’m used to finding a sleep pad size flat spot and pitching the tent where that ends up being where I sleep.  It’s pretty easy to do with a regular mid, but I find that harder to do with the angled sleeping position.  Of course that same angled sleeping position is what gives the tent some of it’s other great qualities, so it can’t be seen as a fault, but something to consider.

[Todd T]

Additionally, I’m not certain how much real world difference the footprint of the notch would make in finding a site – as said it’s wider at its widest point so it might be just as limited, in a different way, in practice.

I suppose it depends on where you hike, but I think there’s definitely a real world difference.  The thing about the X-Mid’s footprint is it’s a crucial part of the tent’s structural integrity.  In other words, you need a full rectangle of flat ground with every corner part of the same flat plane.  With the Notch (and other non-pyramid type tents), you really only need part of the site to be flat.  The vestibules on the Notch, for example, can be over roots, rocks, holes, brush, dropaway slopes, etc., without compromising the tent’s structure, as long as you can get the guyline out to something solid.

Trade-offs.

[Opogobalus]

That’s a fair point. I guess I hadn’t enough real world experience to run into those potential issues. Do you think the struts make the notch a bit less sensitive to perfect staking? The x-mid is an easy tent to pitch, but in difficult staking scenarios, having guylines at funny angles or mismatched lengths would make the pitch less ideal. I wonder if the extra structure and tensioning from the struts makes the notch a bit more forgiving there?

[Opogobalus]

If it’s just strong wind n rain , I’d take the Notch over the XMid. I think it sheds wind better. And being tall, due to Notch design, if I slide to one end I am not able to push to touch the outer, unlike in the XMid, where despite the big separation of inner and outer.  I discovered last week that strong wind gusts can bow the large end panels in on the Xmid  so outer sometimes touches the inner if my feet are against it.

I haven’t had the xmid in big winds yet, but in moderately strong winds it was noticeable on our 2p xmid that the panels deflect a lot, due to their large shape. I used all additional pegs on the wind side. It could even do with mid panel guyouts to help manage the deflection imo.

I’ve used a sil Notch and a Strat 2 100s of times. Often in lots of rain n wind.  Pitched correctly and hard n tight. Above freezing conditions I can honestly say that sag just NEVER happens . Just pitch it hard and tighten once fabric relaxes. Drum tight.  I’ve/we’ve experienced heavy all-night rain n wind dozens of times and the tent is as taut in the morning as the night before.

I see a lot of photos of badly, loosely pitched tents though… And in reality!

But the Silnylon definitely absorbs water . But it’s not a major issue to me. I’m used to carrying wet tents most of my life!

To clarify, I don’t think the silnylon is a huge deal – but when tossing up between which one to keep I preferred the silpoly fabric. That it holds a lot less water when packed up is an underappreciated positive.

But, like you, if I was going to own just one solo shelter I’d probably have kept the notch. I chose the x-mid as it had more points of difference to my lighter weight mid.

I do feel that if someone was tossing up between these two shelters, you’d be satisfied by either. The points of difference which might tip it one way or the other have been covered, and in all cases aren’t huge differences.

[Mole J]

Agree

I think we’ve come to the same conclusion @opagobalus!

 

(And @texasbb)

 

[Michael Ray]

The thing about the X-Mid’s footprint is it’s a crucial part of the tent’s structural integrity.  In other words, you need a full rectangle of flat ground with every corner part of the same flat plane.

I could see that being a significant issue for the X-Mid as it’s often hard to find that much flat ground.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Some good info here and looks like the notch still has the edge (for me) so far despite being silnylon instead of silpoly and being more expensive than the X-Mid. I might also still consider a used Solomid XL + nest.

[Opogobalus]

For what it’s worth, I often see used Notches going for $150-$200. Right in the same price range as a used (or new) x-mid which seems to be holding its value second hand due to the huge popularity of and limited supply of the shelter.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

A few assorted comments:
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is zippers. The X-Mid uses much stronger #5 zippers (like TarpTent’s models that are intended for more foul weather use) whereas the Notch uses #3 zippers which are lighter but aren’t nearly as strong. Few would recommend #3 zippers for very windy conditions. I suggest this is a bigger difference in surviving high winds than 20D vs 30D fabric, since a #3 zipper is quite likely going to fail before either fabric does.

“you need a full rectangle of flat ground with every corner part of the same flat plane.”
You don’t need the four corners of the ground to be on the same plane, you need the four corners of the tent to be on the same plane. For example, if the ground has a dip, you can compensate by setting the corner guyline to be longer there so that the ground is dipped, yet the corners of the tent are on the same plane. The same is true for the Notch. It also has a shape where it only pitches taut if the four stake points are at the proper elevation. If you pitch the Notch vestibules too high or low (e.g. a large bump where you want to stake one), the pitch will also suffer. There’s not a rectangle vs diamond difference here, rather what’s really going on is that the Notch’s vestibules are higher cut off the ground, so you have more ability to adjust the height to compensate for uneven ground, but with the downside of a higher cut fly (e.g. drafts, rain splatter). You can accomplish basically the same thing with the X-Mid by using longer lines at the corners. Pitch it with 6″ or so of line at each corner and the whole tent will move up a few inches like the Notch, and then it’ll be easier to compensate for bumps.

Regarding footprints, here these two tents to scale. The Notch is wider and longer, but less area as it trims the corners. Also note that the strut ends of the Notch require another 8″ or so of length on either end beyond what is shown for the lines, so the length requirements are greater than what’s shown.

Also here’s the X-Mid and a wider range of other mostly 1P tents. As far as 1P trekking pole tents go, it has a fairly average footprint.

“With similar suitable pegs n guys for nailing them down, the Notch is 100g lighter.”
I don’t think this is accurate. The Notch is currently about 26oz for just the tent now that TT has added zippers and lowered the fly edge. The X-Mid has been steadily getting lighter as we tweak it, where the current tents are 27.5oz. Note that is fully seam taped while the Notch needs seam sealing, so the weight gap is about 10-25g after seam sealing the Notch. And in real world conditions the X-Mid is quite likely the lighter tent on average since silnylon can easily double it’s weight in extended wet conditions. In the same conditions that silnylon gains 100% of its weight in water, poly will only gain about 0.5%.

To the OP, your requirements are a tough list. I think the X-Mid as a whole feels a bit more roomy than the Notch, but neither is what I’d recommend if you’re serious about wanting a spacious tent for stretching out.

[Opogobalus]

I don’t think this is accurate. The Notch is currently about 26oz for just the tent now that TT […]

Mole is referring to the 2017 Notch, which seems to be lighter. I owned a seam sealed 2017 briefly, which was around 120g lighter, so I don’t think Moles is an anomoly. The current versions of both shelters appear to be very close in weight.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Fair enough. I didn’t realize he was referring to that generation. I’m not sure that older generation is really desirable though because the door clips and high cut fly make that generation quite a bit less stormworthy.

[Opogobalus]

Do you mean the clips of the overlapping doors? The 2017 was pre-zipless doors – which seem to have been a failed experiment from tarptent.

It does have a higher fly on the vestibules.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The history of all this is a bit complicated and I haven’t tracked it closely. As far as I am aware, the three main things that have changed at various points in time are (1) a move to more heavily coated/higher HH fabrics (circa 2017 roughly), 2) the zipperless door design, and (3) the lower cut fly. I’m not sure at which point the weight bottomed – whether it was with zipper but lighter fabric, or heavier fabric but zipperless. Seemingly the current version is the heaviest because it has the higher HH fabrics, door zippers, and lower cut fly, but it’s also probably the best version.

[Dondo .]

Hey Michael,  I was about to chip in my two cents about the X-mid but Dan beat me to it.   You really don’t need to find a spot of  perfectly flat ground that matches the footprint of the shelter;  just get close and adjust the corner guys as described by Dan above.

For the record, I’ve used the X-mid almost exclusively since the first batch shipped and so far have never had a problem getting a nice tight pitch.  Since we both mostly hike in the mountain west, I doubt that you would either.

Also, the benefits of  using a poly tent are not to be underestimated.  After experiencing the relative lack of stretch and resistance to absorbing moisture,  I can’t imagine going back to silnylon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mole J]

My Notch is a Zippered 2017. Mesh inner.

I’ve added 4 Gold Eastons (for main peg points), 2 mini groundhogs (for guys) plus 4 Ti skewers (for the mid hems which I added shockcord to) and removed the 4 suppplied blue Eastons (which I find not useful for the main points as too short to hold well in all but firm hard ground).

I’ve also added linelocs and guys to the other doors so each side has two guys to the peg (and cut off the useless weak plastic clips which never held from day one). There were existing grograin loops there to attach a LL3 to.

Door and pitchlok guys have been beefed to 3mm (I found the supplied line slipped) .  Long 2mm Apex guys have been added.

So you see, my Notch is somewhat heavier than Stock.

 

For the XMid, I added 4 Gold Eastons for the main 4 corners plus 2 mini groundhogs for the guys. I kept the Ti Skewers as I often stake every point in wind. But skewers for the main points were never going to work in >90% of pitches I do.

Corner lines have been changed for 3mm as supplied line slipped on the tension of a taut pitch. Especially when wet.

Weighed side by side the XMid comes up 100g heavier.

It doesn’t bother me, it just is.

 

I agree, the No 3 zips on the Notch are a weak spot, but as I guy both sides of each door (therefore each zipper side) tight, it is mitigated in this case.

 

 

Re the footprint needed.

I agree, the XMid isn’t much different from many tents.

But in (my) practice, the narrow ends of the Notch definitely mean it can fit in more small places than other shelters.  This is one reason why I came to enjoy using it so much. That, and it’s speed of pitch.

 

But these are all just comparisons.

Both shelters are there with the best in class in my opinion.

And for their weight, improvements in design on the many others I’ve had or tried.

 

Edited to add:

 

Dan, I  (and I know, many others also) really appreciate your commitment to engaging with everyone about your design and it’s production.  Especially the detail you have shared here and on Trek-lite.com.  Your style of communication is great. Thanks.

 

 

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