what i HATE about trip reports and other data

the best policy is to let the market decide;  and, if people can make one cent of profit by publishing GPS tracks, then we should celebrate the infinite wisdom of our markets that brings success to those who publish GPS data !

In terms of backpacking, I learn about quite a few awesome trips from people who are the information. If relied solely on exploration, odds are I’d still be exploring the pedimont woods of North Carolina and never seen the diversity of locations offered elsewhere.

Not necessarily true if we look back a few decades. By 1971 I had hiked good portions of the Sierra, the Rockies and the Cascades. There was no internet, no GPS, and I had never read a single magazine trip report or trail guide. Like most people of the time I knew these wonderful places existed, got some large scale maps that were free in those days (I couldn’t afford USGS maps and you had to mail away to get them) and took off.

Perhaps, in my opinion, this is the best way. I had no preconceived notions and no idea what I would see. Everyday was new and exciting, each day was an adventure because I really did not know what lay ahead. Heck, I didn’t even know there was a JMT when I hiked through the Golden Trout Wilderness to Mt Whitney in 1971. I found out there was this John Muir Trail when I got near Whitney and I was on it, so I walked it too, until I almost got to Yosemite Valley where I saw way too many people; and then I turned around and walked back home.

Yes, Nick, but it’s a lot easier when you have a Leonopteryx and your’e 10 feet tall.

Ralph,

I had to look that one up, and then it took a bit to make the connection. Good one!

It’s not merely a matter of trip reports anymore, various social media platforms have been blowing up locations as well.  Things as simple as Instagram or Facebook selfies and the name of the location are just as liable.  I suspect that Instagram, Facebook, and the likes have a potentially greater impact than a blog, BPL, or various forum posts as they so quickly spread information to far greater numbers, transcending “niche” or hobbyist circles.  Especially as so many of these platforms are now linked and reports, images, and locations get spread across multiple platforms simultaneously.

Personally, I’m beginning to question writing public trip reports anymore. I’ve been avoiding them on  many recent outings, partially for the reasons Nick describes, partially due to other concerns.

…partially due to other concerns.

Principally, of course, the concern about unwittingly enabling inexperenced and/or stupid people to attempt a trip that’s way beyond their abilities, and getting themselves into serious trouble.   I was quite astonished to learn that some groups (friends, not commercial outfits) hiking the JMT choose to sign mutual legal waivers.   Sooner or later somebody will sue someone over a trip report.   Perhaps that will put and end to trip reports that contain any guidance information at all.</div>

“the best policy is to let the market decide;  and, if people can make one cent of profit by publishing GPS tracks, then we should celebrate the infinite wisdom of our markets that brings success to those who publish GPS data !”

ha, ha,… using Nicks ideas against him

he didn’t take the bait

Ive posted about this before… especially about adding a rule to LNT about excluding irresponsible social media posts.   I didn’t post my original post in the right forum, so I deleted my original comment.   You get the idea from the comments though.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/108321/

Thanks for writing about this, Nick. It’s a caution which is definitely needed.

“the best policy is to let the market decide; and, if people can make one cent of profit by publishing GPS tracks, then we should celebrate the infinite wisdom of our markets that brings success to those who publish GPS data !”

Yep… them markets that denude forests, pollute rivers, and release toxics into the air we breathe around the world…
Sure thing…’Wisdom’
Or is it a race to the bottom?
billy

“Not necessarily true if we look back a few decades. By 1971 I had hiked good portions of the Sierra, the Rockies and the Cascades. There was no internet, no GPS, and I had never read a single magazine trip report or trail guide.”

It’s sounding like the larger BPL community agrees with you.

I’ll end my metaphors/comparison as maybe I’m just a noob. I thought I would mention this last point from a professional Mountaineer’s book though. And again, I really do respect your awesome will to forge your own path/explore. Forgive any mistakes as I read this book last summer. I believe Ed Veisturs specifically talked about the race to climb Anapurna. He had the option to study maps and topo’s but they didn’t always tell the full story of cerac, glacier, and cornice hazards. I believe he heavily utilized an old French Journal of a previous expedition in order to select his optimal route. The beta of what they explored. If I’m not mixing things up I believe one of the most crucial beta’s he found was when he dug up the French version of the same journal and realized there was a major translation error in the English version concerning one of the hazards. As a sport enthusiast Ed was excited to learn the error rather than resort to blame/anger.

If someone offers to help others I don’t think they’re an a-hole. And I’d love to live in a city where everyone climbs/hikes and tells me about new trips instead of celebrity gossip. Maybe that’s just me.

“Maybe that’s just me.”

Not just you. I fall more closely into your camp than the other. I understand and commiserate with both sides, I just lean more toward the sharing side.

I benefit from local trip reports and appreciate them. I have used material already online, as well as replies to posting “I’m looking for a trip that meets A, B & C criteria.” (The criteria did not include solitude). If someone, deciding I were the sort of LNT-aware backpacker they’d approve of wants to PM me info, that would be OK too.

I  also simply enjoy trip reports on the vicarious level. So please keep posting them, even if you feel the need to obscure details.

this is well known in the climbing world … its called “beta”

the old guidebook had a brief description of the climb … and perhaps a hand drawn topo if you were REALLY lucky

the new ones have photos of the climb, descriptions of the hard moves, the exact gear you need to bring and even the exact placements sometimes …

its absolutely and utterly unavoidable … the market demands it and someone WILL provide it

we can rant all we want on the forums, but the folks who publish or post up the stuff dont give a damn about what we think …

its dem “lesser folks” who will gratefully follow the detailed beta, or use those waypoints to trod where only the “elite” should go

;)

Thank you for sharing this, Nick.

I have seen many wonderful “word of mouth” places become overrun. If all the folks practiced LNT principles (or had even heard of it), perhaps the areas would have more time to recover.

And yet I look back at my old b&w climbing guides, with all their wonderful insight, and feel grateful for the authors who went there before me.

Yet they were paid for their efforts of publishing, and I was happy to pay for it. Nowadays, it’s pretry obvious that all that “free” internet stuff has a cost to it, to both the giver, and the taker.  Heck, I’m sure all the advice we share on BPL has a cost we either can, or can not afford.

Maybe some day: all the trails we love will have to be permitted, and have a similar rating like climbing routes, and we will need proof of experience before we recieve our permit. Either that, or we watch the places we love ultimately become overused out of existence.

:(