WELCOME to the great outdoors….. Now please, LEAVE no trace

[dirtbag]

So the Bidet??

Who ever uses one..  any recommendations on a specific one?

[obx hiker]

^^ Agree with JS and Jerry: Poop is natural, loaded with bacteria, and if exposed to the elements will go away pretty rapidly; usually. The problem is that paper will stick around quite awhile in certain fairly wide-spread areas where we like to hike like alpine or high ‘desert’ etc. and which aren’t regularly wet with lots of active microflora in the soil; like pretty much everywhere west of 100 degrees in the continental US except the Pacific NW and certain other wet areas. So the paper sticks around or gets concentrated. Then combine that or add to that people who aren’t aware or maybe a little lazy in high-trafficked corridors or restricted areas like canyons or long ridgelines and the resulting ‘build-up’ in spots along those corridors is a problem.

TP packs out as small as it packs in which is pretty small. Put it inside something like the packet your morning oatmeal came in or if you re-pack meals individually use those bags and then put that into your zipped trash bag. You aren’t gonna cross-contaminate anything unless you’re so sloppy you’d probably cross contaminate anyway. What’s the big deal? And yes the bidet is another great option I hadn’t thought of before. Might use a little more fuel warming up the water ;)  The only extra weight there is the special nozzle which should be just a few grams. Probably off-set by less-needed TP.  (this is BPL )

OTOH there are certain situations where you need a swag bag. There’s just so little space/so much traffic like rafting the San Juan or Colorado; there’s only so many places with ‘land’ along the river and that’s where everyone is stopping. Then there’s great canyon corridors like Grand Gulch. Places like that.

Hat’s off to David for his resolve. Commendable commitment.

[W I S N E R !]

The Lost Coast was likely one of the most poop-impacted places I’ve ever camped.

I kept repeating this process:

“Oh, look, that driftwood log will make a nice windbreak for my camp! Why does it smell like human $#!& here??….Oh no….” (Discovering multiple piles as I tried to make camp).

This happened to me a half a dozen times…

I’m sure a nice ocean storm clears the place out pretty quickly, but with summer traffic and limited camping areas tending to concentrate people, the place felt like a human litterbox.

We are creatures of habit and convenience: If it looks like a good place to crap, you’re probably the 1,000th person to think the same. Think about how this plays out on trails like the JMT with literally thousands hiking the same corridor every season, all concentrating around obvious campsites…

[jscott]

It’s true that people often concentrate around obvious campsites and this will result in a lot of tp and poop. I almost always wait until I’m hiking the to do my business so as to find less traffiked areas that are well off the trail. I also try to avoid those crowded campsites. sometimes however my morning coffee causes an emergency situation. Again, I avoid heavily used sites if possible. I think I’ve done pretty well. I take LNT seriously, even if people here will disagree.

In situations like Craig describes I would burn or pack out–burn the tp most likely.

I still haven’t figured out why bears aren’t ripping open those bags of soiled tp that people are packing. I wouldn’t leave food in my pack. Maybe hanging is working. I’d be curious about a Sierra ranger’s reaction when you told her that it’s alright, you’re not hanging food, only poop.

[Jerry Adams]

beach of the Olympic Peninsula is the same, somewhat trashed

I think maybe there are more people that aren’t regular wilderness backpackers familiar with LNT doing trips on the beach.  College students or whatever.

If people walked away from the beach it would help.  Or do it in the surf.

[Jerry Adams]

when I dig a cathole I try to visualize what someone might use as a camp spot and not do it there.  Or a place kids would be playing.

[AK Granola]

I’m totally trying to visualize pooping in the surf and that has to be the funniest image I’ve imagined in a long time! Good luck, people. Don’t drown with your pants down. Seriously, I’ve not camped in a beach area where I couldn’t hike up and get away from potential camping or picnicking areas. That’s a unique problem, and might be like Grand Canyon where you have to use a portable toilet solution. Or how about a loo suspended over the surf? They have those in places in Indonesia where they raise “toilet fish.”

In other areas along trails, I would guess if there are any animals digging up catholes, it’s people’s dogs. I highly doubt claims for bears, lions, or any other wild animals. Maybe the odd instance occurs, but it’s not food and they know it. Dogs are our best, but also most disgusting friends, that do disgusting things including digging up poo and rolling in it.

Anyway a well dug cathole works in most places, but I still wouldn’t bury TP though, and now that I use the bidet, I don’t have to pack it out either. On rare occasions I would also use a wet wipe, and that gets packed out – NOT in the bear canister! eew. And I mostly hike/camp among lots of bears. I would never contaminate my bear canister and contents with anything germy.

Type of bidet? there are whole threads on that and tons of products and reviews. I have tried several brand types, but I like using a regular squirt bottle the best. I tried and hated the Brondell GoSpa, just silly and ineffective. I have and like the Hygienna, but finally settled on just a small squirt bottle with a good flow.  Try them out in the shower.

I have a small nasal lavage bottle that works great, available at the pharmacy for a few bucks. Depending on your particular needs, you can use a smooth rock to help and then use the bidet. It’s really, really simple and doesn’t require the extensive analysis BPL’ers do on stoves, for example. Just try a few different things and you’ll quickly find your groove.

Cleaner hands, cleaner bottom, and totally LNT. No packing out icky stuff.

 

[dirtbag]

Gotcha.. 😊 thanks!!

[jscott]

“Just try a few different things and you’ll quickly find your groove.”

 

so to speak…ok I thought a bidet required a lot of apparatus. I’ll try that out. It’s a bit…I dunno…for a manly guy like me…but since no one will be looking…I may just end up singing a little. Karen, you may have converted me.

But I still think that where I hike, tp does no harm to the environment.

[AK Granola]

When the great TP shortage happened back in April, I also bought a Brondell Swash bidet seat for my bathroom. I figured I’m using one camping, why not use one at home too? Next best thing next to sliced bread, or in this case, hamburger “buns” my husband just bought. Is that too risque for BPL? Sorry, couldn’t resist since we’re discussing the scatalogical.

Anyway, the bidet seat is great. No TP no getting hands germy, and shower clean. There are dozens of models, some with some ridiculous features and some very basic. We got a model with air dry, which is nice. First time users do tend to giggle a bit.

[dirtbag]

Lololol.  I will definitely be trying this out. It beats carrying half a roll of tp on extended trips or even having to figure out how much to bring.

[Jerry Adams]

hmmm…  I was planning on eating a hamburger but I just lost my appetite : )

[Bob Kerner]

For the bidet, there’s the Culo Clean about the size of a sports cap for a Smart Water bottle. Or DIY with a lab spray bottle. Skurka and a couple of others have demos on YouTube. Whatever you do, don’t ask about it on r/ultralight unless you want a butt load of smart ass ( yes, stacking puns) responses.
Since it is not covered in those videos and I was naive enough to ask on Reddit I’ll spare you wondering: when you’re done washing either pull up your pants and start hiking, or carry a small dedicated cloth to dry yourself with. Some people suggested carrying TP, which defeats the purpose of the exercise! Practice at home first.

[Bob Kerner]

I just saw Karen’s post about the air dryer in her bidet. Some smart ass on Reddit suggested I carry a 12v battery powered leaf blower to dry with! Another suggested a series of bodily contortions.

[dirtbag]

Thanks. Watched a bunch of videos and searched the internet.. Gonna try that Culo Clean one. Should have it tomorrow.  My wife and kids and neighbors are going to think I have totally lost in when they see me digging cat holes in the far end of my yard and testing this new gadget out!!  My dog may even wonder what is going on!! Haaaaa.

[Pedestrian]

“extensive anal ysis BPL’ers do”

BPLers are all about anal (ysis).

@granolagirlak made me do it.

 

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

stacking puns

haven’t heard that term before, nice

someone posted about doing experiments in their backyard, maybe several years ago

my new house’s back yard is public so I can’t do it anymore.  I guess I could do my business on a tray and then take it out to the back yard.

[obx hiker]

Ok I just got my money’s worth for the lifetime membership. When some of you get in the groove on a roll it’s @ laughty miles per hour.

 

[Jerry Adams]

maybe this is a stacked pun

https://apnews.com/article/dutch-whale-tail-sculpture-catches-train-de0577175ba65260b4bd0923bf7b4a08

“What a fluke: Dutch whale tail sculpture catches metro train”

[jscott]

Yeah, I’m gonna pass on the videos and figure this one out myself in the privacy of my own home. Get in touch with my inner bidet.

 

[Kattt]

I hate to break it to you bidet user wannabes…but, at least in Europe, there is no way we would squirt a butt with water after defecating  and calling it good. I grew up with bidets in the home and , like everyone else, we used them AFTER wiping with TP ( and before bed). This is because we could not shower daily so we ensured that the parts that needed it got cleaned. The idea of squirting water without having removed any solids first is just gross. Now for urinating only that is another matter.
I find it amusing and also odd how people seem to pride themselves on not washing, not wiping, smelling bad on the trail etc. I am not accusing people on this thread; other than a couple of posters that have repeatedly semi bragged about stinking on the trail, I don’t recall who else is in that camp.
To me good  hygiene is more in tune with the rest of nature than stinking; other animals do wash themselves as best they can throughout the day. Soap or no soap is another matter; I believe one can get clean without the use of products like hand soap and there is a case to be made that soap negatively affects the skin and how much oil we produce. In a time of covid ( and with toilet use in general) it’s better to use soap than just water.

[dirtbag]

Would wiping with some leaves, moss, snow count as wiping before cleaning with water?

[Pedestrian]

“but, at least in Europe, there is no way we would”

Thanks for enlightening us unwashed masses on how we must be led by the superior Europeans in our toilet habits!

LOL

BTW a significant chunk of the world population (outside the Americas and Europe) gets by fine just washing up afterwards.

And modern toilet paper is a recent invention dating back to 1850s America. Wonder what the Europeans did before that? In fact, according to the great sage Wikipedia:

The 16th-century French satirical writer François Rabelais, in Chapter XIII of Book 1 of his novel sequence Gargantua and Pantagruel, has his character Gargantua investigate a great number of ways of cleansing oneself after defecating. Gargantua dismisses the use of paper as ineffective, rhyming that: “Who his foul tail with paper wipes, Shall at his ballocks leave some chips.” He concludes that “the neck of a goose, that is well downed” provides an optimum cleansing medium.

And

a common edition of Horace, of which he tore off gradually a couple of pages, carried them with him to that necessary place, read them first, and then sent them down as a sacrifice to Cloacina; thus was so much time fairly gained …

 

 

[AK Granola]

Yeah, can’t say I care too much about what the Europeans think on this topic either. When I did a semester in France, my host family restricted everyone to one shower a week. I wasn’t super impressed with cleanliness there. My Danish host family showered daily.

What I know is what works for me, it may or may not work for you, depending on your diet and constitution. I don’t have a lot of “solids” as Katt describes, so that may just be me! I know I’m literally shower clean, without TP. I won’t offer photo proof, you’ll have to try it yourself! lol

[Kattt]

Hey I am the last to say Americans should be like Europeans; just leave the bidet to them 😂 , but
yeah we did not have the ability to shower daily so we washed our privates and our feet daily in a bidet instead. And the problem is? @pederstrian unwashed masses? Are you ok?

@dirtbag yeah I would think cleaning with leaves first counts as wiping.

@Karen, got me…nicely done!  I suppose you don’t even need water then….”shower clean” yeah ok. I’ll still smell better at the end of the day or the week.

[Author]

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