WELCOME to the great outdoors….. Now please, LEAVE no trace

[dirtbag]

I think its time to bring this up. Welcome all people to backpacking/camping/hiking.. Welcome newcomers to BPL!  Please enjoy the outdoors, explore and see new places. Earth is truly a magnificent wonder and there is so much beauty surrounding us in all directions. From mountains, to valleys and prairies, deserts, forests, cascading rivers and stunning waterfalls.. There is much to be in awe of, really.  But please, take the time, read a book, or Internet search, PLEASE.. LNT. LEAVE NO TRACE!! Its not that hard to do. True, no one is perfect and we have all been guilty of this at one point or another, knowingly or unknowingly, I’m sure it has happened. With the huge influx of people getting outside on trails, be it a day hike, overnight or multiple nights, everyone should be aware of LNT… the basics at least.  I am so surprised that everyone has been trained to wear a face mask, social distance.. But why has LNT not been POUNDED into everyone’s brainwaves?? I would much prefer that you LNT when I see you in the backcountry, rather then pull up your face mask, turn your back and jump off trail to avoid me as I come swiftly walking past you.  This should be a priority to all the big out door outfitters, out door clubs, local clubs, local park agencies.. Government officials.. Why not have more LNT info in your face like “masks required” signs on every corner?

[Bob Kerner]

Yes…and I don’t think the people who are part of the recent influx of new hikers and campers are coming here or to the ADK website to learn about LNT. They’re just going to Dicks or REI, buying stuff and setting off to the local range. I’m particularly mortified by the number of masks I see discarded trail side. It’s representative of what’s happening elsewhere: people drop them and can’t be bothered to pick them up, or they assume there’s some parks dept employee who will pick them up. Really makes me angry!!!

Let’s face it, a place like this or r/ultralight or HF is a niche community that we found because we’re Really into this. And because we’re really into this we want to preserve the places we go. I don’t pretend to believe that everyone I see on the trail shares the same values.

Where I hike (and you too) there aren’t many trail head kiosks….the trails just start, so there’s no place to hang signs. I think REI and Dicks don’t want to get too involved because they don’t want to be dictating to their retail customers, but in fairness the REI in Nassau runs LNT sessions once or twice a year, AFAIK. So that leaves regional councils like ADK, AMA etc…and you wouldn’t see that info unless you went to their sites…..so I agree with you that the information is somewhat compartmentalized.

[Ken Larson]

A REVIEW of the LNT principles for the “oldies”and for the “newcomers”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s1QM2G034w

 

[Paul Wagner]

LNT is a big part of our website, where we encourage people to go backpacking…but that’s a drop in the bucket.

 

i agree that more should be said about this to anyone requesting basic info–maybe just a tag line on responses to newbie questions?

[dirtbag]

Maybe a poster or billboard sign in the outdoor/camping sections of these retail stores?  A banner when you log onto their website? Again, there are signs all over to social distance and wear a mask..

Yes REI has the class.. but again. Thats for someone who is actually looking in to it.. not the casual person who decides they want to go on a camping trip or day hike, so let me run to REI. DICKS, Field n Stream, Cabellas… Patagonia.. wherever..  They dont want to get too involved.. I dont buy that.. they represent outdoors for the common person..

If you click on Patagonia website.. the first thing you see.. is get out and VOTE.

 

[Dan]

OK, I’ll just say it. Please pack out your used toilet paper.

[Paul S]

“Leave no trace” is a vow to be honored for sure!

With more and more people hitting the back country the old mountains don’t stand a chance unless people learn about LNT and wilderness ethics.

 

[SIMULACRA]

Well..much like politics, everyone has their own interpretation in varying levels and degrees of what this actually means. I break it down to this, for myself. Common sense. There are some people I encounter and all I can think of is, “WELCOME to the great outdoors…..Now please LEAVE.” And that’s it

[AK Granola]

There are a lot of FB groups that welcome new hikers and backpackers. I see posts frequently from people who have never done an overnight trip before, or are just starting out hiking. Those are the places to regularly post LNT messages. Perhaps moderators can be encouraged to share that info with all new group members along with the group rules. It just has to be everywhere and anywhere new people will read it. If they’re experienced hikers and still aren’t leaving no trace, there’s probably no hope for them. I do think most of it is ignorance from newbies and they can be trained.

We have one very very popular local hike that I do several times a summer and pick up trash along the trail. I try to make a very obvious deal out of the fact that I’m picking up someone’s Twizzlers package and putting in a trash bag that I’m then carrying out. Hint hint. I like to be annoyingly blatant. That trail also gets lots of rock graffiti. This mostly started just a few years back, when there was a surge in interest in hiking (Wild effect?). I don’t recall any graffiti or more than mere microtrash (inadvertent pocket leavings) prior to that.

I have verbally intervened on my own street when I saw someone littering (she knew it was wrong and apologized after I handed her paper towel back to her through her car window). I suspect most people kind of know it’s not right, but need to have that intuition reinforced by all of us. Choose your own approach!

[Jerry Adams]

good on you Karen : )

they should also leave instructions on cat holes.  I think maybe some people think you should leave some toilet paper on the surface so other people know there’s poop there

[Paul Wagner]

”  I think maybe some people think you should leave some toilet paper on the surface so other people know there’s poop there”

I don’t know anyone who thinks this…but I do know people who are so grossed out by their own TP that they leave it for others to deal with and see…

[Bob Kerner]

Well this thread is going down the toilet!

Regarding the OP on messaging, it occurs to me that a lot of people are venturing out using aps such as AllTrails. Maybe there should be some encouragement to have LNT messages on those platforms.

Perhaps I’m too cynical but I see this as just another symptom that some people DGAS about the environment or those around them. The people leaving trash on the trails are the same people who dump their cigarette butts and dental flossing gadgets in parking lots. No amount of advertising is going to change their behavior.

[Chris R]

We have a problem in Manitoba with folk building “furniture” , particularly where we have lake access to a campsite or the four wheeler crowd have found a way in. It’s part of the pioneering spirit that is alive and well in some parts of the outdoor community. The favourite is a makeshift table, likely for fish cleaning, with smaller logs nailed to make a frame and then nailed to trees. The most gross however is the improvised throne. This is usually an upturned bucket, bottom cut out, sometimes with a toilet seat on top, I presume this is over a hole, I have never been able to bring myself to look, because of course folk don’t stop when the hole is full, they keep pooping until the bucket is full. The whole thing can usually be smelt from many yards away so most folk then take to the surrounding bush creating a toilet paper collage. Throne remains as no one wants to deal with it and most of us don’t head into the back country equipped with a hazmat suit.

[Jerry Adams]

yeah, I’ve seen toilets like that, gross.  Like between Goat Lake and Snow Grass Flat.

I’ve seen people that would appear to not just give a s…  poop and TP just randomly scattered around.  Sometimes I’ll take a stick and clean it up a bit.

When there’s a rock on top of a bit of TP, it must be that they think they’re letting other people know there’s poop there.  Maybe I’m being overly polyanna :)

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

Jerry you’ve seen a toilet over there!!?  Awww man. That’s… who….   ugh.

[W I S N E R !]

Do one better than LNT and help get rid of someone else’s mess…I actually find cleaning trash on my local trails rather satisfying and often take walks with a grabber and a trash bag.

Turn it into a game and you’ll displace your anger!

https://www.harborfreight.com/ez-reach-grab-pickup-and-reaching-tool-62752.html

I also find considerable joy in busting up rock dams on the local streams. There’s something about hearing the flow of water return to an otherwise still and soon to be stagnant swimming hole…I figure streams must feel pretty good after being allowed to flow again. Like when Chihiro finds that the stink spirit is actually a polluted river spirit and frees him in Miyazaki’s Spirited Away.

Destroying a good (but illegal) mountain bike jump also brings quite a smile to my face. I’ve got a good back and forth going with a rather sophisticated builder in a local canyon I walk many times a week; they use shovels, stack rocks, and fill dirt…I tear them out, they build them back up. I hope to meet this person one day.

Carried a nearly 5# discarded and mouse-chewed summer sausage out of the Sierra once, had it in my pack for 3 days…Funny, even the animals seemed hesitant to touch it, found it right behind our camp! Bear bait? Gee, thanks…

Picked up probably 10# of old tent remains on the JMT, my share of old glass jars over the years (once lost a fingertip when one broke while dislodging it from the earth, that was fun), ancient cans…

…and countless idiotic escaped mylar balloons. It’s amazing how far Dora the Explorer or some other cartoon character can make it into the wilderness. These always make you work for them; snagged in trees, laying at the bottoms of ravines…

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

https://www.oregonhikers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=24387&hilit=happy+birthday

there are 18 pages of people posting pictures of those mylar balloons scattered all over the wilderness

a pet peeve of mine

People!  releasing helium filled balloons is just like dumping trash out your window

[Dan]

We have a problem in Manitoba with folk building “furniture”

Hah, this reminded me of a well-furnished campsite I used this summer in the Weminuche Wilderness. It wasn’t far off the CDT.

[AK Granola]

The dental floss gadget thing is so odd. Who flosses in the car and then tosses the thing in the parking lot? Doesn’t everyone floss at home before bed, in the bathroom? I met a guy who would cut his fingernails around where people were eating. Eek.

Altering your campsite to suit you did used to be something everyone did. You dug ditches, attached clotheslines, all kinds of modifications. But those campers have to be really old now, and don’t account for most of the LNT problems we’re seeing these days, mostly litter. Even worse when car camping. We cleaned a firepit at a state campground many years ago, and under the massive pile of trash found…a used diaper, partly burned. Diapers don’t burn very well, surprise.

[Ian]

“Please pack out your used toilet paper.”

Or don’t use toilet paper.  I’ve experimented with a few approaches to this ranging from going 100% TP free to taking care of all the heavy lifting with natural materials and polishing off the undercarriage with TP or a wet wipe.  I use the dog waste bags to pack out the TP and double bag them in a zip lock.

Another BPLer and I have been doing some car camping in the Cascades.  I bought a trasheroo for the spare tire on my Jeep and I stock it with garbage bags, gloves, and one of this reacher grabber tool off of Amazon.  As penance for my 12 mpg, I try to pick up any trash found at my campsite and along forestry roads.

[Brad W]

Thanks for this post. New trend that is unnerving is painted rocks. How much of a narcissist do have to be to think taking something that isn’t yours, defacing it and leaving it on trail is the best thing to do?

[W I S N E R !]

How much of a narcissist do have to be to think taking something that isn’t yours, defacing it and leaving it on trail is the best thing to do?

Seriously…

; )

[Jerry Adams]

good point wisner : )

painting rocks seems like a bad idea

making piles of rocks is easily undone so not such a big deal in my opinion.

[Dan]

making piles of rocks is easily undone so not such a big deal in my opinion.

If you’re interested in giving that a try, I can give you some coordinates. ;-)

[Jerry Adams]

I was thinking of cairns like that

Or the sierra big rock with little rocks for teeth

[Author]

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