Ultralight solo back packing for comfort minded middle aged woman?

From the OP:

…So now I’m trying to get down to a base weight of 10 pounds.  Live in AZ c. hot days, cold nights and critters that are not going to sleep in a tarp with me.  Looking at Z packs arc blast (would prefer the Dyneema fabric), a 20 deg rated down quilt, and a tent like Nemo Hornet or Big Agnes UL 1…  Any thoughts for a humbled UL novice?

Funny how easily this turned into a Pacer Pole thread…Buncha gear geeks running loose all up in here :)

John, You should not have gotten me started. I do not like Pacer handles, nor any handles on hiking staffs, anyway.

Downhill, I put my hands on top, much like catching a base ball except deeper into my palm. I agree, the strap simply falls off when used this way and is essentially nonexistent. The stress is transmitted directly through my arm to my shoulder, MUCH reducing, or eliminating, the stress on any long steps or jumps down. Again, the pole tip is on a shaft which is on a pivot (essentially a ball and socket joint at my hand) and I am free to pick good anchor points or to change direction in an off-balance situation. Again, the strap usually just falls off and isn’t used even if it stays attached to my wrist.  You cannot use Pacer poles like this, thus restricting their versatility.

“I’ve also heard of people falling whilst wearing a wrist strap, and injuring their wrist. I can just throw my poles to the side if I slip so I don’t get tangled in any strap, and don’t fall on the pole either.”

Well, I am of the camp that says an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I don’t worry about it because the straps are long enough to give me about a 25% freedom when I fall. The strap has saved me on bad footing more than once when I needed to quick grab for a tree or rock, or, to protect my head when I slip. I can do that. Or, I can *grab* the staff using it for additional balance. And, I do not have to backtrack and retrieve the staff. If you are injuring your wrist, then you are using the strap wrong. It should be loose enough to just sling your hand/wrist, not lock it. ‘Corse, if you are downhill skiing, at 25-30mph, all bets are off.

“With uphill climbing, a strap tends to crease my skin painfully, not so with the Pacer.”

Yup, this tells me you are indeed using the strap wrong. The strap should be comfortable. Up from the pole, through the strap, open your hand, down to the pole and grip with the thumb and forefinger. The strap will fold between them into your hand. In my case, I may need an extra twist or three depending on terrain. Downhill? Well, you don’t need a strap so much, mostly to keep it attached. My hand is on top, similar to a ball and socket joint. Uphill or level? You should NEVER put a pole ahead of your footing, it just pushes you backwards…not a good idea. These are my primary complaints to Pacer poles: no flexibility in use, incomplete ergonomics, fussy dual use.

No flexibility: *You cannot use them in “ball and socket” mode. I need to stop, adjust the length, then move on. *The angle they are designed for is an  ideal average, thus not perfect for everyone.

Incomplete Ergonomics: Ergonomically speaking, they do NOT follow the movement of your hand/wrist on level ground, even. Your motion describes an arc. A simple strap coupled with a longer staff does follow this arc. You should not *grip* the staff. A two fingered point or pencil like grip is more than enough, putting the staff more forward in your hand (with the strap between the pole and your fingers.) Pacers require a rather firm grip on the poles placing the poles near center of your hands. They are designed from a standing position. They are not so good from a dynamic perspective. Per Pacer’s video, you can see the arm/wrist lifting from the molded handles. And forcing a bend in the wrist to compensate for the stiff design. A strap carries the load on your wrist/hand and FOLLOWS your wrist/hand dynamically as it pivots(from the top of the staff) completely through each stride. (Though, scrub sometimes requires me to actually use a grip on these to get through it or to brush off dew & spider webs ahead of me.) Handles are superfluous gimmicks. Any handles, not just Pacers. Besides, handles add extra weight I do NOT need nor want in my hands. This leads to tight forearms and sometimes cramps in the hands. Again, incompletely done ergonomics. Per Occam’s Razor, simple is usually the best solution.

Fussy Dual Use: Well, I am not sure I understand your statement. Tape on the tent? For what? This does nothing for the basic problem. The handles on the pacers are off center. This will always cause a problem with tents, regardless of the amount tape you use. Just carry the rubber safety tip (fussy, easy to loose) and plant the handle in any ground. Of course this means fussing with the length to set the tent up. And fussing with the length to hike with them in the morning. Oops, forgot the rubber tip. Anyway, a bit exaggerated… For tents, my staff works as a tent pole. No special worries or attachments. They are way to strong for a tent pole, but hey, this is not their primary purpose. Actually, the strap works pretty well to hang shoes and cloths from once the tent is up.

On to the Nordic grips on the Lekis. Good Grip, rather well ergonomically designed except for downhills. Without an upper ball and socket, they can be pretty annoying on downgrades. For most of us, every uphill means a downhill along a route. They half way make it. Anybody want a well used pair for $40, and you pay the shipping? I still use them for training walks in the mornings in winter. The “glove” keeps my hands warmer.

JCH…. Lol… Well at least I now know that even though I grew up cross country skiing and have used trekking poles for years I’ve been using them wrong!  Will have to mess with straps and see what I think.  What I have just realized is that my scapular muscles are protesting- rhomboids, traps… I will be watching videos on technique and looking for help from my colleagues on my own biomechanics.  Had quite a nerve injury last year and may still have some imbalances causing the problem.  Love you guys, but I am just glad  can put on a pack finally!

I love my carbon Pacer Poles and love the handles. I have 4,000 miles on them now and no pain (anywhere), no strap problems and they’ve saved me from some bad spills. And they work FINE with my Duomid by the way.:-) Happy Halloween Everybody!

HYOH!!

Bob – VAT tax isn’t charged on UK purchases for customers outside the EC. You may have to pay US duty and handling charges though.

“Well at least I now know that even though I grew up cross country skiing and have used trekking poles for years I’ve been using them wrong”

I love not using any straps on my poles. And I’ve tried them. AND I’m a Nordic skier, so I know all about weighting straps. There’s a contingent of people who weight their straps while backpacking. I find this way too complicated, technical and unnecessary. Overkill. Moreover, not having straps allows a lot of freedom of hand movement on the poles as the terrain changes. I’ve never had hand or forearm strain from using poles. Without straps, I have a light, free touch on the handles–never a death grip. I’d ask Anne if hand or forearm strain has been a problem for her. If not, then why do you think that you’ve been doing things wrong?

Having straps on your ski poles really does help you know.
When you fall over on a steep hill and let go, your poles don’t disappear to the bottom of the hill….

Cheers

I’m not sure I follow this. When you fall, is when you want the most control of your poles, thus the help of straps. I know that I’ve had falls where the straps, in addition to my grip on the pole, helped saved my balance. You could certainly cut them off and count on your grip alone, if you choose to, but I’m struggling to think that every pole maker is doing it wrong.

I don’t think anyone is saying they’re doing it wrong, only that it is an option.

In the past I used straps because “that’s what you’re supposed to do” but after a fair amount of experimentation I decided I didn’t need them for the way I hike for 3-season. I found that on the flats and for moderate ups and downs I really don’t use the poles very much when carrying UL loads, and there are enough little hills and swales where I do most of my backpacking to make it a PITA to transition back and forth. Without straps, and while carrying my poles in my right hand, I can switch from no poles to poles in about 1 second, and vice versa. And I also do not experience the hand and forearm strain that is often mentioned. But that’s me.

However, there is one little modification I made earlier this year — inspired by something mentioned by Gary Dunckel, another no-straps guy — which I have now used a fair amount (approx 200 mi) and can recommend. This is to remove a bit of material in the pole grip where the index finger rests. This has the effect of providing more overlap of the thumb over the index finger which locks it in position even better.

I’m really not sure what all the hoo-ha is about straps vs. no straps…use ’em if you like ’em and don’t if you don’t.

For me I use them sometimes.  As Bob mentioned there are many times I prefer to simply carry my poles in my hand.  It’s quite easy to grasp the handles and simply let the strap hang loose over the back of my hand.  If I need the straps I take the time to use them.  “Problem” solved.

That’s waaaayyy too easy! :-)

Bob, studying your last picture, it appears you removed the bulk of the material from just above the finger ridge, creating a quite pronounced “shelf”, then tapered the material removal up the handle to a blend point ~1″ above the shelf. Is this description accurate?

Are you happy with the shape/depth of the mods you show, i.e. did you go far enough? too far? would you do anything differently if you had it to do over again?  I assume you performed the mod slowly and methodically, testing the fit of the grip to your hand as you went :)

That sounds about right on all counts.

I used a Dremel drum sander (very carefully) for the bulk of the sculpting and then 80- to 200-grit sandpaper to finish up.

It has worked so well as-is that I don’t plan to change it, although there is another tweak I intend to test by removing some more material. These are my long-term test poles so I don’t mind (too much!) altering them for the sake of humankind. :^)

I consider my poles simply long-term…no test.  I have no intention of ever replacing them and as such, any modifications must be well considered and are solely for my convenience :)

I’m really liking the Arc Blast. It seems heavy duty enough to me, glad I didn’t get the Arc Haul. It’s not too hard to get the base weight down to 12 lbs or so just by shopping at Z packs. I have found their products to be first rate both in design and construction.

I had a great walk out on my last trip. I weighed my pack after getting back. 14 lbs. It was light enough for me. I did carry 2 extra lbs of food & a bit of fuel all the way up and all the way down. So, spending time and saving money on the food is my priority, not shopping for gear.

I don’t like carrying water. It’s heavy! I carry a bit of vinegar in case I get thirsty between water stops. It clears my palette and vanishes the thirst and is quite a wake up.

Erica

This thread has been driven off into the weeds. Might as well drive it farther.

Straps on hiking poles are a necessary item, like a padded waist belt on a frame pack. (OK all you SUL fanatics who eschew pole straps and hip belts and pack frames, go to another topic now.)

If you have ever XC skied you understand why pole straps are necessary, even for walking. Pushing off on pole straps and not having a death grip on pole handles keeps your lower arm muscles relaxed plus you are being much more ergonomically efficient. True, the strap length must be adjusted for hand size. Once and done.

The trouble is that many hikers have never XC skied and have no clue how to properly use pole straps.

Therefore they think the straps are only to keep the poles on their wrists, hence they put them on all wrong and can’t use them to proper advantage. Philistines! (End of rant.)

Straps on hiking poles are a necessary item, like a padded waist belt on a frame pack.

I know exactly how to use trekking pole straps XC-style but prefer not to do so.

As I mentioned earlier, this is a well-considered personal choice based upon some extensive experimentation I did about 3-1/2 years ago after learning that there are some rather rather knowledgeable and accomplished people (Skurka, et al) who don’t subscribe to the dogma that there is no other way.

In fact, I previously used poles almost all the time on almost all terrain, the primary exception being when scrambling and needing my hands free. However, I did many test hikes on nearby trails that I am very familiar with and which have some nicely varied terrain, and I actually started this spate of experimentation by going pole-less, just to see if I could be happy with no poles at all. The answer to that was ‘no’ so I started carrying them again and then alternated between using them and not using them on different kinds of terrain, both with straps and without.

What I discovered about myself is that I am totally fine and in fact a bit faster and more relaxed not using poles at all on flats, slight uphills and downhills, and even on some moderate downhills where others might choose to use them. But it’s nice to have them readily available to assist when hopping over a small bog or stream, or when stepping up small ledges, or for cushioning the landings on big down-steps, etc. When I’m past those obstacles I can swiftly return them to their carried position in my right hand, which is another advantage of going strapless.

What I also discovered is that I didn’t suffer at all from the widely reported hand and forearm fatigue, and the technique I have developed—and which others certainly discovered before I did—of locking the thumb over the index finger, has reduced the gripping force to virtually nil. This technique works even better with the little index finger ‘shelf’ on the grip (photo a few posts above) that I made by removing some material with a Dremel sanding tool. I can honestly say that at the end of multiple long days I have zero hand/forearm fatigue or pain.

This is now my preferred way. For someone just starting out I would advise using them in the conventional way but don’t be afraid to experiment with other ideas and techniques after gaining a lot of experience from many miles in varied landscapes.

And I also use a Zpacks Zero and a MLD Core from time to time which have simple webbing for waist belts, so there’s another cat to skin later. :^)