Two-person quilts

[Caledonia Heather]

Anyone have experience with two-person quilts for couples? Do you stay warm and cozy, or are you better served by having separate bags/quilts? I am interested in ordering the EE accomplice, but wanted to get some opinions before I pull the trigger.

[ben .]

my wife and i have an accomplice and love it. would not go back.

i’m 6’1″ and we ordered the long, which was a good choice for us.

[James Marco]

Provided both of you are covered, yes, sleeping together is much warmer than alone…about 10degrees or more warmer. It is as important to maintain a good pad. I have a couple NeoAir originals. Strapped together, they seal together pretty well and insulate us down to about 30F fine. Quilts require a good pad to work.

[Caledonia Heather]

I am switching our pad system over. I had an xlite, he is still using a self-inflating foam pad. After much test-sleeping over the last couple weeks, I am going with the nemo tensor pads, mine in the regular length and his in the long/wide. They are very comfortable, quiet, warm, light, and rectangular. I figure that is better for pairing for a double quilt than tapered pads.  I’m going to have to get the long or x-long quilt. By boyfriend is 6’5″. At the moment I’m trying to decide between a 20 and 30 degree bag. I’m leaning toward 30 since we both sleep warm, and probably won’t take winter trips. We could always pack an extra quilt to throw over, I’m getting my hands on a 40 degree synthetic quilt soon.

[James Marco]

Good Luck!

 

[Tim B]

I love my accomplice, it could be my favorite piece of gear.

We are very comfortable in the 20Deg accomplice down to about 35 with adequate R value pads, good base layers, and all buckled/cinched in.  I haven’t taken it lower but bet I could pretty easily with a couple small adjustments.

[Peter Boysen]

I work at EE, so there’s that disclosure. Obviously I’ve used our solo quilts a bunch, but it was only a few weeks ago that my wife and I used an Accomplice (we have an Itasca comforter that we use for summer and milder shoulder-season trips, including with the kiddos, so this was the first time we’d both gone on a trip that required better draft control as it was about 25°). Right away it didn’t work great for us, as we were a bit hasty in our setup, so my pad kept sliding away from my wife’s pad. We used a strap, but the elastic was just a little too stretchy for how slippery the floor was. After adjusting in the middle of the night our pads stayed together and it actually worked well from then on out… Anyway, that to say it’s a good setup, but be aware of slopes and slipperiness.

[Danny Milks]

I rarely go camping or backpacking without my wife, and we have always shared a quilt. Initially we shared a wide 1-person quilt and that was totally sufficient for our needs. For backpacking with a baby, we upgraded to a 2 person Nunatak Dual Arc (bought used from a fellow BPLer) and have been happy with that. We are easily warmer, we only carry one quilt so our packs are smaller and lighter, and we are delighted to cuddle at night.

We tried strapping pads together (bought the straps from Amy here), but the only way we could eliminate the gap between the pads was the fill the pads 100%. This resulted in very stiff pads. So, we opted to make a pad coupling sleeve out of Tyvek. This completely eliminates gaps, and has the added benefits of protecting the pads (NeoAirs) and adding friction to avoid the slippery issue people have discussed above. The Tyvek is cheap and we used gorilla glue to keep it together, this has held for 100+ nights so far. The disadvantage of course is the weight/pack size of the Tyvek coupler.

Either way you go with pads and quilt, make sure to block the air between the two campers. EE has this feature engineered into the design while Nunatak has an optional ‘pillow’ the buttons to the quilt. A vest or small puffy jacket would accomplish the same thing.

[Caledonia Heather]

On the issue of securing pads together, I have heard pretty good things about the Thermarest coupler straps, so I was going to try those, probably getting two separate sets to secure the pads in two places. The other thing I was thinking of doing was getting a thin, double-wide ccf pad like those from gossamer gear or oware to put on top of our mattresses once attached to provide a continuous sleep surface. It does add extra weight, but my honey is more of a 10-12 mile per day hiker, so I can count on being able to carry more gear comfortably than if I am on my own and typically hit 20 miles daily. Decisions, decisions…

[Lachlan Fysh]

Huge fan of our 30f accomplice. We use exped synmat UL 7 pads, medium for her and medium wide for me, and they couple together perfectly with the EE provided straps… No gap, almost like one big pad.

[James Marco]

I believe that buying a single set will give you two straps. We use these, ourselves. The work well, once the initial awkwardness of aligning the two pads is over. After inflation, we do one strap around both pads about where the shoulders go. Then the other is about where the hips are…just over half way. It looks a bit odd, but works about the best.

 

[Stephen Collins]

I have an EE Accomplice. The first time I used it, I used the provided pad connector straps and my pads kept slipping apart at night leaving an air gap in between the pads. This let in cold air from the ground and made my girlfriend cold. The quilt itself worked well but the pad connector straps did a poor job keeping the pads together.

So I ordered some pad connector straps from zpacks and tried them out. They worked very well and actually kept the pads together. Now I use both the EE and zpacks pad connector straps when using the accomplice – the zpacks straps to keep the pads together and the EE straps to buckle in the quilt. It is a little cumbersome but it works.

Peter/Tim/EE, if you are reading this please consider fixing your pad connector straps so they actually keep the pads together! :’)

[ben .]

for what it’s worth, which may not be much, we’ve never had problems with the pad connectors that came with the accomplice. we’ve used the quilt with various combinations of thermarest, big agnes, and exped pads. all worked great.

[Crow]

We use a Feathered Friends Condor as a quilt for 2 adults and a baby.  We got the 0-degree version which is not listed on their website but is thicker and features a neck baffle for colder temperatures, and had an extra 4oz down added to be a bit warmer.  For keeping pads together, we use the Condor Ground Sheet they make which has sleeves for two 25L pads to fit into, and the quilt then zippers on to.  In addition, it has two zippers on the top for hoods (that would normally zip onto the bag) to zip on to.  The ground sheet has a down-filled footbox (maybe 5 or 6 inches tall) on the foot end, which is nice as it gives you more room for your feet.

The whole setup works great, and we’ve been out in 10 degree weather with it, in conjunction with 4 RidgeRest pads.  The only complaint was that we used the stock groundsheet, which really didn’t have enough down in the footbox to match the rest of the sleeping bag, so the foot end got a bit cold.  We have remedied that by ordering a custom groundsheet with overfill added.  I also didn’t care for the polyester microfiber top layer on the groundsheet, so I had it made with regular nylon taffeta which is the typical material used for the inside of sleeping bags.  Also had them use Pertex Shield for the outer fabrics of the quilt and footbox instead of the default Nanosphere fabric.

We’re contemplating getting either a 20 or 30 degree Condor for use in the warmer months, in order to lighten up our load while being compatible with the current groundsheet.

[Peter Boysen]

Yep, we’ll definitely consider that Stephen. Using the elastic straps now is pretty quick and simple, but we have considered going back to non-elastic to do a little better job there.

[Danny Milks]

@scwcollins – Stephen, I don’t think EE designed their straps to hold together two pads. Rather, it is the same as with the single quilt, that the straps hold the quilt around pad(s) to avoid drafts. These are two different functions. Possibly they could design the straps to do what you’re asking, but I personally wouldn’t want this. I want straps to hold my pads together but not my quilt. I have only used a quilt for the last 12 years and have never used the straps provided (FYR I have quilts from EE, Golite and Nunatak).

I love this conversation though, as my wife and I have only shared a quilt since our first date. We used to use two Montbell 90 pads attached together, and turned sideways, so there was no gap between our bodies but rather perpendicular, above our waist. This way we had one pad shared for our shoulders, and one for our hips. We had pillows for our head and packs under our feet. This was the lightest way to go, but have since moved to two full-length NeoAirs because they are so much more comfortable!

@caseyandgina – Casey do you have photos of your setup?

There is a poll for 2-person sleeping pads on Massdrop. There does not seem to be a lot of good options on the market, so I assume we here are a very small minority. [Disclosure: I am the Ultralight Buyer for Massdrop]

[William Chilton]

“There is a poll for 2-person sleeping pads on Massdrop. There does not seem to be a lot of good options on the market, so I assume we here are a very small minority”

Exped has the Synmat Hyperlite Duo coming out this month. It looks as if it could be the the best choice for lightweight backpacking.

[Crow]

Hi Danny, good to see you here!

I don’t have photos yet, but I can try to get some.  For couples, a smaller double bag/quilt seems better, such as the Feathered Friends Penguin.  A rectangular 50×77″ sleeping surface is pretty vast.

Nemo and Exped have some double-wide pads – you probably want to get the Nemo offerings added to that poll.

Exped also has the SIM Lite Duo UL 3.8 (R3.2) and the SIM Comfort Duo 7.5 (R6.4).

With the exception of the Duo 7.5, none of the 50″ wide mats I’ve seen are warm enough for winter camping, and that is a 7.25lb mat.  Toting 2x each RidgeRest Solar and RidgeRest Classic mats is only 5.65lb, just bulky.  The Duo 7.5 is pretty bulky too, though only half that of 4 large RidgeRests.

I do really like self-inflating mattresses.  Two Therm-a-Rest Basecamps should be warm enough for winter (R5.0), and weigh only 5.5lbs.  Two mattresses may be easier to pack or split between people, and provide redundancy in case one should puncture.  I think that the Duo 5 may be the same warmth though, even though it is advertised as R4.6 – since Exped and Therm-a-Rest each measure R-value using their own methods and not a standard it’s hard to say, but they are the same thickness.  The Duo 5 is 4 ounces lighter than 2 Basecamps.

However I think that we are going to get two 25L air mattresses to cut down on bulk, and secondarily weight, while retaining enough warmth for winter camping.  That really only leaves two options – the XTherm MAX or Exped Downmat.  There is also the Big Agnes Q-Core, but I have had manufacturer defects in the ones I’ve tried (leaks form at the welds), and they are rather thick.  Another problem you have to consider when using two mats conjoined and person sleeping in the center, is that the edges of many air mattresses are thicker to provide a “rail”, compared to the rest of the mat.  That’s not ideal.  The Q-Core has this, as do the Downmats, except for the Downmat TT.

The Sea-to-Summit Comfort Plus Insulated mats looked promising at R5.0, 4.5lbs, and more comfortable than other air mattress designs, but sadly the insulation does not extend to the edges, at all, making them unsuitable for conjoined use with somebody not centered perfectly on one of the mats (e.g. our son):

A shame, because I really like StS products, and they have the best mattress valves in my opinion.  In addition to the warmth of a pad, the comfort of using it must be considered, as well as material thickness and valve design… it’s a very difficult thing to decide on!

Here are the options I’m considering:

• CURRENT (RidgeRest Solar + RidgeRest Classic (older thicker model)): 104oz (R6.6)
• Exped Downmat TT 9 LW: 99oz (R7.0)
• TaR BaseCamp: 88oz (R5.0)
• Exped Downmat XP 9: 82oz (R8.0) – thicker edges
• Exped Downmat 7: 78oz (R5.9) – thicker edges, nasty built-in pump that sucks
• StS Comfort Plus Insulated: 72oz (R5.0) – insufficient insulation coverage
• BA Q-Core: 72oz (R5.0) – thicker edges
• Exped Downmat UL 7: 54oz (R5.9) – thicker edges, scary 20d material
• TaR XTherm Max: 46oz (R5.7)

I have been trying to avoid the XTherm as I simply don’t like it, but it’s seeming to be the inevitable best choice. The Basecamp or Downmat TT would allow for bulk reduction, but not much weight reduction…  Or I’ll just stick with RidgeRests…

[Paul S.]

I’ve got my eye on the BA Insulated Double Z queen size (available 4/1).  The price/weight/warmth/thickness seem ideal.  It weighs a little more than my 2 large NeoAir All Seasons, but 4″ vs. 2.5″ and any of the options to completely join my pads (e.g. a fitted sheet) would make it heavier.

[Crow]

Paul, that’s an interesting option for sure!  I do find the Q-Cores much more comfy than tubular air mattresses…  Only R4.5 though, I wish they would make the Double-Stuffed Double Z available in a double size.

I didn’t want anything tapered since that would leave a gap in the middle, but the tapered foot end on a double-wide mattress might just work.  IT eliminates that problem “double rail in the center” problem, and 57oz sure is an appealing number.  It looks to have a whole new type of valve that is unlike the Q-Core valves or any other manufacturer’s valves though.  Wish they would have gone the Sea-to-Summit route with that, and well, a fully rectangular shape seems to be more of a sure thing…

[Crow]

Danny, here are pictures for you and anyone else curious.  Both the exterior Pertex Shield and interior taffeta are black, so sorry for the poor contrast.  I had it made using waterproof Pertex Shield on the outside so that should I have problems with condensation raining onto the bag, a tent wall being pressed in by snow against the edge of a bag, or snow drift getting in, it wouldn’t mean a wetted bag.  It’s not completely waterproof of course since the seams are not sealed, the zippers aren’t waterproof, etc.  It’s just a nice added degree of basic protection.  It’s also nice when you’re sitting in your tent and a cup of tea gets knocked and splashes out on top of the bag.  Don’t ask how I know this…  The only downside to the Shield fabric is that it is heavier than UL options that would allow the down to loft more, and would make the bag lighter:

Footbox:

Neck baffle:

When the hoods are detached, some extra fabric covers the zipper so it doesn’t scratch you:

The groundsheet is really more designed for air mattresses than CCF pads, and RidgeRests seem to fit a bit tight lengthwise, but RidgeRests are what I have so that’s what’s used in the pictures.  Only one RidgeRest is in place on each side in these pictures though, rather than the pair I used when camping in cold weather.  I am leaning heavily in the direction of switching to either Exped Downmat UL 7’s, or Therm-a-Rest XTherms.  Note that the stock groundsheet has an upper surface of polyester microfiber that is soft to the touch – this is the custom groundsheet with Pertex 30d nylon taffeta upper fabric (the same as what’s used on the bottom of the groundsheet and inside of the sleeping bag).  I actually do still have a stock groundsheet that I’m trying to sell, so could take pictures of that as well.  There is a seam that runs down the center to effectively conjoin two 25″ wide mattresses, though this could be removed with a seam ripper (or custom made without it) to allow for a single 50″ wide mattress.

Bottom side:

At the top there is a lip that encloses the mattress and holds it in place:

Top side:

Nice zipper baffle all the way around:

Really though, the Condor is not designed primarily as a two-person quilt, but as a fully-rectangular large sleeping bag.  When used in this way, there are two sets of snaps on the zipper side that help seal things up:

The bag has short zippers for attaching a hood on both sides, so you can choose which side you would like your bag zipper to be on:

Loft:

Just to get an idea of width, when zipped up in bag mode.  This is a nice roomy bag for sure.  Two adults will fit in it on their sides in enough comfort to sleep, but not two adults and a child, unless the bag is partially unzipped and the top portion is used like a quilt:

A piece of down got out somehow (first time it’s happened, it’s generally effective at not leaking).  This is “real deal” down, as you’d expect.  Feathered Friends does not use any hydrophobic treatment on their down:

The whole assembly packs into a Large (20 liter) Sea-to-Summit Ultra-Sil Dry Compression Sack, which fits easily into a sleeping bag compartment of a backpack, and weighs in barely over 6 pounds, including the sack.  This keeps the down completely dry in the rain and when I fall in the river. :P

[Crow]

Oh, I forgot a weight breakdown:

• Feathered Friends Condor 0 (custom, Pertex Shield, 4oz overfill) – 1824.0g (4lb 0.3oz)
• Feathered Friends Condor Groundsheet (custom, Pertex Shield, Nylon, 1oz overfill) – 490.0g (17.3g)
• Feathered Friends Condor Hood (custom, Pertex Shield) – 175.0g each, 350g total (12.3oz)
• Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil Compression Dry Sack L (20L) – 96.4g (3.4oz)

[Danny Milks]

@caseyandgina – wow, that is quite the set up. Looks like a beast of a sleeping bag!

I really like the looks of the Exped Synmat Hyperlite Duo, Pricing is $279, which is comparable to 2 lightweight Thermarest or Sea to Summit pads.

[Stephen Collins]

Holy cow that Exped Duo looks sweet. A while back I had been searching for a lightweight double pad and could not find anything. Super pumped to try this out and thank you Danny for sharing it.

Peter, thanks for taking into account my complainypants suggestion. If you’re still reading, would you all at EE consider making a quilt attachment strap that would fit around a double wide pad like the Exped Synmat Hyperlite Duo? I would hope you could use the same design as the single pad strap but make the strap longer and call it a day, but maybe it’s more complicated than that.

[Caledonia Heather]

I wish we could use the hyperlite duo. But my 6’5″ boyfriend does not like his feet hanging over the end of the pad. That big agnes double is intriguing, but is too heavy for my tastes. At this point, we’re going to stick to separate pads, as much as I would love a double.

[Author]

Posts