Transition to Tarp/Bivy

One edit.  Meant to say MLD Grace solo/duo for the tarp.

I don’t think you have any bad choices here but I’d rather the more durable materials of MLD’s bivy or maybe something from Borah. 7d is thinner than I’d want for a waterproof floor.

I have been using a cheap tarp and bivy setup for a while. 5.5×9 borah tarp

After giving tarp and bivy a chance, Im not a fan. Wiggling in is anoying. Cant sit up…

Im Switching to a gatewood cape (just ordered). Because I wont need the bivy and it doubles as rain gear. I just think in makes more sense to get something with enough coverage to not need a bivy. Zpacks 8×10 for 6oz was tempting…and would not require a bivy. I would say the 8.5 for the small weight penalty.

Jeffrey,

I made the leap of faith from a Tarptent to a MLD Soul Side Zip in eVent and a MLD Poncho Tarp back in 2008-2009 and never looked back.

Interestingly, I have been considering moving to the Recon Bivy for the added ventilation and a larger tarp or a MLD Solo Mid for better weather protection.

My advice is take the larger tarp….if you are looking at silnylon, the added 3 oz is worth it for the additional coverage/protection….especially, if you are in an area where there is a lot of rain.

My time has been in the Sierras….not much rain.

The few times that I have been in rain, I really wanted more room to move around to maybe to sit up….larger tarp will give you that opportunity.

Condensation has been a constant issue….not the bivy’s fault, simply environmental conditions.

The Recon, with ample mesh looks like a good option to reduce the wet quit that I have woken up with many a time…..I just lay out my quilt at lunch time to dry it out….same with the bivy.

I like the Recon bivy’s solid fabric at the head area…I have really appreciated that on my MLD bivy on very windy nights….same with the feet.

I love the fact that the bivy of any type has a small foot print, allowing you to setup camp in tight spots….and spots that are offering a natural wind break….like a large rock or bush.

The bivy can be setup in spots that a tent would never be able to go.

Anyway, hope that helps…..if I were looking at a MLD quilt, I would say that Superlight is fine….don’t get the eVent Soul Bivy if you have a large tarp….unnecessary/redundant weight.

Feel free to ask me any questions….happy to give you my thoughts.

P.S. If you get the Recon Bivy, please put up a review….I am likely to get one with a MLD  SoloMid for flexibility and bomber protection from bad weather…at the expensive of added weigth.

Tony

Thomas,

Regarding the Gatewood Cape….think that it is a better shelter option vs. the MLD Poncho Tarp that I have.

You have more protection at the expense of the flexibility of different ways to pitch your shelter with a tarp.

One thing to consider or adjust for….when you have your Gatewood Cape setup as a shelter, if it is raining and you need to leave your shelter for things like a restroom break, you won’t have any rain gear as you will be using it as a shelter.

I got around this issue by carrying a 1 oz plastic, disposable poncho to be able to use in those situations.

Something for you to consider with your Gatewood cape.

Tony

1. I own a Tigoat Ptarmigan Bivy and spent a month in the Pyrenees this summer with a 15F rated bag (way too warm obviously). Especially near the coast, nighttime temperatures were pretty high. On some nights, I would just sleep in the bivy in my long baselayers. Eventually during the night, I would wake up feeling cold which is when I’d unpack my sleeping bag and use it as a blanket. Alternatively, I just used the sleeping bag as a blanket straight away and only cover my torso. Worked like a charm. Bottom line: I find the bivy offers enough room to uncover parts of my body and vent or to even put the sleeping bag beside me. I only found the the sleeping bag next to me uncomfortable on the nights when I stopped late and was still hot from walking when I climbed into the bivy. In that scenario, I would advise to leave the sleeping bag packed until you cooled off a little. So I don’t think you have to worry too much about warm temperatures. That being said: Of course a nice airy tarptent is more comfortable than a bivy if you’re still steaming hot. But it’s bearable and at least for me, on most nights I’ll have cooled off a little when I go to bed.

2. Usually a large tarp is more comfortable. However, a large tarp can catch a lot of wind and takes up considerable space. So if you plan to do lots of above-treeline camping and if you’re faced with tiny camping spots, a small tarp (or a Mid) might do better. In most other cases, a large tarp offers more comfort, especially in wet weather. I would suggest you look into flat tarps aswell. I used to own a 2P shaped tarp (Gossamer Gear C-Twinn which is very similar in geometry to the Grace Duo I think) and while I liked it, the catenary curve stole a substantial portion of the headroom making it a lot less livable than a similarly sized flat tarp.

I live in the rainy NW and prefer an 8×10 tarp for most trips it is nice to have the room and less splash for the small weight penalty. I bought a recon bivy when they first came out and have used it a fair amount and it is my favorite bivy, both under a tarp or on its own when buggy but no rain , when I don’t set up the tarp .

Size of tarp depends on your style.  Larger tarp means more space underneath to hang out in but also catches wind more and can require a larger marginal campsite.  But if you tend to hang out in camp for several hours of the day, your sanity may require this.  I personally had Ron make my tarp a little narrower than he normally sells having come from the day when 6×8 tarps were the rage so I thought the normal size (other than the length) was too big.  But I only stop to camp when I’m ready to go to bed and maybe have dinner.

I’ve had 2 superbivys and 1 borah cuben bivy.  Get the full head net version for better ventallation.  Don’t understand the above complaint about wiggling.  Most bivys have a side zipper to get in and out with and have plenty of room for a normal size person to flip from side to side during the night.  If bugs and retaining heat isn’t desired, I often leave the side unzipped and thrown to the side so the chest area isn’t covered.  As for being too hot, a bivy can substitute as a lightweigh sleeping bag, provided you have clothing to wear inside it (I don’t like the bivy fabric on lots of bare skin).  But eventually, you will hit a point where it’s too hot period.  A hand full of times over the years I’ve slept on top of my bivy in my clothing (no sleeping bag) with a heat net over my hat relying on my permithrin treated clothing to keep the bugs away (good thing I had long pants and sleeves).  But given I normally camp in the mountains during the warmer months, this doesn’t happen very often.  If you regularly camp in hot enviornments, then the full netting bivys are what you want if bug protection is needed.  If it isn’t needed, no need for the bivy except for splash protection, in which case you can just leave it unzipped and the chest area thrown to the side like I previously mentioned.

Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but when I tarp I usually don’t use a bivy except in winter.  I have an Echo II tarp and I haven’t gotten any significant splash on my quilt during modest rain.  Can’t say that it would work out in a pourdown.  I tend to tarp at sheltered locations, which probably helps.  In fact, during warm weather when I’m using a 40 degree synthetic EE quilt, I’m not really concerned about my quilt getting a little bit wet even though it hasn’t happened yet.

Better to just go with a 7′ X 9′ flat tarp and an MLD Serenity net tent. For about 3 more ounces you get more space, ventilation and rain protection. And the flat tarp gives you a lot better versatility than a shaped tarp. 8′ X 10 tarps are just too big IMO…huge footprint and a major wind catcher.

I like a bivy with smaller SUL tarps, like on 1 or 2 night trips where I’m really wanting to cover the miles, and I’m willing to sacrifice space in order to get uberlight. I like the MLD Bug Bivy for warm conditions because a  bivy with a non mesh top can be miserable on balmy nights.

I really appreciate each of you taking the time to provide your thoughtful ideas and suggestions.  There are a lot of different combinations that work for folks and being able to compare them is very helpful.  Monte has me considering a net tent/bug bivy now.  I’m sure this post is helping others on the fence with this transition.

I really liked my Recon bivy, so much that I’m sewing a MYOG version of it. It does fine in hot weather. It’s a good balance of mesh and solid fabric. I would recommend going with a wider bivy than you think you’ll need though. Being able to push your quilt off to the side in a bivy if things are too warm is really nice.

If you are worried about splash protection, Yama Mountain Gear will apparently add doors to their tapered tarps:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpNrYzkl1sg/?hl=en&taken-by=yamamountaingear

I am with tony,.. that a few extra oz for more space until the tarp is a great tradeoff. I spent a couple of years with a smaller tarp.  When the storm rolled in found myself not sleeping well because I had to be hyper aware of where I as positioned vs the weather conditions and my position under the tarp.

When bugs were heavy, I disliked being under a bivy and not free to move around and to have good air circulation.  I ultimately switched the the first generation pack hexamid with the sewn in bug netting because it gave me the bug free space I wanted.

–Mark

@John,

Since you are MYOG your own version of the Recon Bivy…what changes are you making to improve the design of the Recon?

(What don’t you like about the Recon or what would you change on it to make it better?)

Tony

<p style=”padding-left: 30px;”>I prefer the 8 x 10 flat tarp because of the coverage and many versatile setup possibilities. I use a Borah bivy and really don’t try to replicate a tent inner under the tarp. Use of bivy in the South is important for insects, and generally just good for pad and bag protection. Recent experience in the Sierras with my son involved setting up the tarp in case of rain, but sprawling outside in search of space and stars given the weather. My son especially appreciated escaping my snoring! Not so concerned about being a wind sail given limitless pitch options. Use both a Gossamer Gear sil, or an HMG flat. Happy Trails – Russ</p>
 

Tony, I’m adding more mesh in the foot-box region, making it wider and a little longer, and using a lighter floor material (7D floor, but I’ll pair it with a groundsheet). I like to read on my Kindle in my bivy at night, and the regular-sized Recon was a little restrictive sometimes with an inflatable pad. I do bring my shoes and clothes in the bivy with me, so that also eats up room.

I think the Recon is a great bivy as-is, I just thought I could make it a little more suited to me. If mine doesn’t turn out well, I’ll happily buy a long/wide Recon in their 7D fabric :)

@John,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Recon and what you are changing to make it better.

I have an older MLD Soul Side Zip in eVent that has the discontinued option of just being Wide.

Like you, I put a lot of stuff in my bivy at night…actually everything except my bear canister, cook setup, and water bottle….though, my water bottle is right next to my bivy so I can grab a sip at night.

Funny that you mentioned shoes, at one point, to avoid having a pillow to save weight, I sleep with my shoes under my bivy, under my head to be my pillow, but not inside the bivy to stink up the place.

Again, thanks for the feedback….at some point, I will pull the trigger on the Recon.

Just wish that MLD made something like the Recon as I am a bit of a MLD fan boy…..

Tony

I’m going to play contrarian here….If I hear rain I think generously sized floorless mids.  When I hear bugs I think of a pyranet inner with a floor (ticks).

When I think of tarp and bivy I think of three things: condensation in the bivy, blown spray under the tarp, or claustrophobia hiding from bugs in a bivy.

I still use a bivy, but that’s for cold and dry winter conditions.

I made the transition thinking I’d gain something.  Used a tarp and bivy for a few years then ditched it.  Too many experiences where having a slightly larger, more robust shelter would’ve made the difference between enjoying myself and simply getting by.  Not worth the weight savings IMO.  For whatever it’s worth.

I’m going to play contrarian here….If I hear rain I think generously sized floorless mids.  When I hear bugs I think of a pyranet inner with a floor (ticks).

When I think of tarp and bivy I think of three things: condensation in the bivy, blown spray under the tarp, or claustrophobia hiding from bugs in a bivy.

I’m with Craig on the subject and it begs the question, Are Bivies Obsolete?

YMMV.

@Craig and Nick

Damn you with your logic!!!

I was thinking of a MLD SoloMid with a 5.5 – 6.0 oz Recon Bivy….but then I see that the MLD Inner Net for the SoloMid is 8 oz.

2 oz of weight, but more living space, probably no condensation as there is no contact between quilt and the shelter, unlike my bivy.

Having been using a bivy for the past 9-10 years….the advantage that I see for the Recon Bivy/Bivy is that it is just stupid easy to setup…unroll it, no stakes….just attach head look cord to my hiking poles that are setup as an “X” and done….plus, I think that the bivy does provide wind resistance where the Inner Net would not as a stand alone shelter.

Damn you for making me rethink my shelter setup for the future. :)

No sacred cows….everything is open for reconsideration.

Anything else that I should consider now between the bivy and inner net debate???

2 oz of weight….more space to move around or sit up, less or no condensation, at the expense of more complicated setup/stakes needed, and not very protected from wind- when not setting up the SoloMid with it.

Tony

I think bivies still have a place when you’re cowboy camping with a lot of insect pressure. Sometimes wearing a headnet to bed just doesn’t cut it. I can see just using the inner net tent by itself, but it takes more time to pitch. So much easier to just toss the bivy down (smaller footprint, too). If anyone has a better solution to quick setup, small footprint, bug-free cowboy camping, I’d love to hear it.

To be clear, I’m not saying a storm can’t be weathered in a tarp and bivy.  The question is in what kind of style?

On a recent trip in Montana we got hit with some rain and gusts of wind right as we were making dinner.  I retreated to my floorless mid and continued to cook and eat, muddy boots, damp pants, and all.  The gusts were strong enough I would’ve had to pitch a tarp pretty darned low to eliminate spray.  Dinner would’ve been over, changing clothes would’ve been a ju-jitsu match, and I ‘d have found myself prematurely bivy-bound and staring at the tarp in front of my face.

Instead I went about my business, had a good dinner, changed clothes, sat up and wrote for a little bit, edited a few of the day’s pictures, spread out my gear, and slept warm and dry without worrying about a thing.

Not that the former is unsurvivable, but the latter is just so much easier.  For what, a few ounces?  A pound?  All other things being equal, that kind of weight difference has so little bearing on what I’m physically capable of doing that it’s nearly irrelevant.

In my experience the minimalist tarp and bivy look great on a spreadsheet but generally suck in the real world.

I’m with Nick and Craig. My mid is lighter than my tarp and bivi setup and offers better everything. Still can open up the whole side if weather permits. Stupid simple to pitch. I can set up and be out of the rain before you guy out your tarp and roll out your bivi.  A night out with no forecast of rain I might take the bivi only. It was one of my early MYOG projects so I feel obligated.

@Tony: If wanting and MLD version of the EE Recon, I wonder if you have seen their Bug Bivy 2. https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/bug-bivy-2/ Seems more livable to me, particularly on hot nights.