Transition to Tarp/Bivy

“I got around this issue by carrying a 1 oz plastic, disposable poncho to be able to use in those situations.”

Tony,

Thanks for the tip. I already do this, and should probably have “pee bottle” listed on my gear list. Honestley I usually throw in my sol bivy for some late night warmth boost.

Tony,
I just reread your post lol. I read the first half of the sentence and filled in what I thought was coming next… kinda embaraced. I go with a 1 oz bottle instead of the poncho. For real emergencies Id throw on my houdini and make things quick.

While we’re on the topic, you can piss inside a generously sized floorless mid if necessary….

@iago

Yeah, I did look at the bug bivy and even emailed Ron at MLD about using it with the SoloMid.

Really would not work out….the Mid does not have the proper shape to allow for a decent pitch of the Bug Bivy 2 or 1.

So it is either a bivy or inner net with the SoloMid

@Ken

I do love the easy of pitching the SoloMid…..what turns me off with tarps is the 8 or more guy lines that need to be attached and done just right for a tight pitch. The 4 or 6 stakes on the SolMid, pegged to the ground just seems stupid fast and easy….and I can sit up inside of it.

NOW…just have to have a trip that gives me a good reason to give Ron my money…..I am soooo good at delayed gratification…..lol.

Tony

On the subject of late night restroom breaks….I admit that I have often waken up in middle of a cold or windy night and just unzipped my Side Zip Bivy and laid on my side and taken a piss and then roll back over to go to sleep….lol.

Tony

Bivys don’t offer much weight savings over inner tents these days, maybe 2-4 ounces. I use one because I like its overall simplicity, the lower packed bulk, and I feel less walled-off from my environment (compared to when using a net tent). There’s something different about stargazing from inside my bivy (zipped or unzipped) compared to a net tent.

The ease of use is nice, but pitching an inner tent is a pretty minor affair. Bivys are good for blocking drafts and adding a little warmth. I had an inner tent on the JMT last year – still got condensation on my quilt sometimes, mainly due to radiative heat loss on clear nights with no coverage overhead. I’m sure a bivy would have fared about the same. If heavy bug pressure is expected, I figure a bivy + Sea to Summit Nano Net would be about the same weight as a full-on inner tent.

Original poster here.  This discussion has me falling in line behind WISNER! who has made an excellent argument for the Mid/innernet combo over the tarp/bivy setup.  Bugs and rain are nearly always a factor where I hike, so it makes much more sense.  I’m looking at the MLD Solomid XL with their inner net.  Seems like about the right size for one.  Can anyone talk about how easy (or not) the inner net is to attach?  The primary benefit to me of having a mid is for rain coverage while making dinner/breakfast when it’s raining.  I have lighter tent options, so I’m not gaining anything there.  It’s more of a comfort/convenience thing during those wet times.  Still on the fence.

I cowboy camp half the time.  Sort of a bivy with waterproof bottom and a light breathable DWR top (M50).  That top is probably 2 ounces and good for dew/frost/bit of drizzle.  If it rains – floorless mid – M50 protects from any rain splash.

I don’t like the smell of peeing in floorless mid : )

A floorless mid is pretty good against bugs even without net.  The bugs get up to the top and can’t find me down below for some reason.  Rarely I’ll put a 3 foot circle of netting over my head – not the best to have it touching my face though.

So Jeffery, do you expect to save weight with this transition? If not then what it the reasoning?

Eric…I’ll save weight when I don’t bring the innernet; otherwise it’s pretty much a wash.  I’m considering (now) the MLD Solomid XL or Duomid w/solo InnerNet largely to have a place with some room to get out of the rain to cook/eat at the end of the day or morning.

I have the original size MLD Solomid with a DIY inner spec’d identically to MLD’s solo inner.

I think Dave Chenault has a spot-on review of the pros and cons of the Solomid.

https://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/12/22/mld-solomid-review/

For the exact reasons he mentions, I consider it more of a specialist shelter- something I carry when I don’t expect to have to actually live in it but still need some insurance in a storm.  The type of thing I’d carry in shoulder season where the weather is iffy enough to warrant a more robust shelter, but the style of the trip is such that I need something small and light.  Generally, a trip that’s short enough that I’m willing to make due with less space.  Two or more days of possible rain?  No thanks, I’ll carry something bigger and more functional with all of the benefits of a full-sized mid: weather protection combined with space, space, space.  Namely the ability to get in and out with wet shoes/clothes, room to lay out wet gear, cooking space…heck, even room to pee in a cathole in the corner if need be.

For the OP, if you’re considering something about the weight of the Duomid (18oz in silnylon), you might want to look at the Dan Durston X-Mid. It’s not out yet, but it looks like it would provide more interior room for about the same weight. The Six Moon Designs Haven tarp is also 18oz in silnylon and would be huge for 1 person. If you want something lighter, what about the Six Moon Designs Deschutes at 13oz? I read that SMD is bringing back the Deschutes and Haven tarps in DCF, set to be available early next year.

Could someone help clear up some confusion I have with the Innernet on the MLD site?  For instance, when on the site looking at a Duomid there is the option for, say, a silnylon Innernet for $169.  The dimensions are 87″L x 48″W (16 oz).  Is this the Solo Innernet or some larger version that occupies more space within the mid?  I’m not seeing an option specifically called Solo Innernet on the site.  Thanks for you help.

.  MLD Pyramid InnerNets . click on  choose an option and a bar will drop down to  choose a size

Go to tents on the site. Scroll down to innernets. There are I think five different sizes.

Thank you.  Feeling kinda dumb here.  So all of those options are different size <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Solo</span> InnerNets…correct?

Let’s try that again.  So all of those options are different size Solo InnerNets…correct?

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/mld-pyramid-innernets/
<h4>MODEL: SOLO INNERNET</h4>
<b>FITS:</b> SOLOMID, 2017 SOLOMID, SOLOMID XL, DUOMOD & SUPERMID
<b>ZIP STYLE:</b> Single J Zip right side door.

DIMENSIONS: 87″ Long x 27″ Wide x 42″ Tall | 221 cm Long x 69 cm Wide x 107 cm Tall
*Will fit up to 6’1″ | 1.85 m person with a long sleeping bag, head and foot will touch lightly at each end.NOT recommended for users over 6’3″!

MATERIAL:  Pro Silnylon Floor (OD Green)
WEIGHT: 10 oz | 283 gm

MATERIAL:  .75 DCF (Dyneema® Composite Fabric A.K.A. Cuben Fiber) Floor (White)
WEIGHT: 8 oz | 227 gm
<h4>MODEL: SOLOMID XL INNERNET</h4>
–
<b>FITS:</b> All current MLD MIDS *Except* standard SoloMid.
<b>ZIP STYLE:</b> Single J Zip right side door.

DIMENSIONS: 90″ Long x 30″ Wide x 48″ Tall | 229 cm Long x 76 cm Wide x 122 cm Tall
* Will fit up to 6’4″ | 1.93 m person with a long sleeping bag.

MATERIAL:  Pro Silnylon Floor (OD Green)
WEIGHT: 10.5 oz | 298 gm

MATERIAL: .75 DCF (Dyneema® Composite Fabric A.K.A. Cuben Fiber) Floor (White)
WEIGHT: 8.5 oz | 241 gm

Yes, looks like there are different sizes of Inner Net, based on if you are getting on for a SoloMid, SoloMid XL, DuoMid, etc.

Tony

Got it (finally)!  Thanks

So Jeffery, do you expect to save weight with this transition? If not then what it the reasoning?

It doesn’t follow that the lightest weight item is the most efficient or most comfortable way to operate. If one has been hiking all day in cold rain and needs to set up camp with their rain gear (poncho), stay warm and dry, sort gear, and cook, a poncho/tarp becomes a liability.

I’ve come to appreciate Adventure Alan’s philosophy of “practical ultralight”… which is basically what Nick is alluding to. If you’re Gear is so light that it’s inefficient and uncomfortable, it’s too light.

ive got a super light BPL bivy (dcf bottom) and the MLD Cricket in dcf as my main solo shelter, combined wt under 17oz. The Cricket def has enough room to sit-up and do stuff since it has a larger footprint w/ the beak vs the doors of the SoloMid. And the bivy gives me bug, wind & splash protection for sleeping, at a lower weight than a full inner. So far feels like a pretty good balance.

+1 Ryan

I used to weigh everything down to the half ounce….now I don’t even know what my base weight is.

When I first starting going lightweight, this was a revelation about how swapping heavy things for lighter things could make a huge difference in my pack weight.

I obsessed about every single item that I carried, researched endlessly for lighter sleeping bags/quits, lighter shelters, lighter cooking systems until I finally arrived and was ULTRALIGHT!

Then I realized that when my poncho tarp was setup as my shelter, I didn’t have any rain gear to leave my shelter. Then I realized that poncho tarps are hard to put on in the wind and they flap around…so I bought rain gear and added weight into my pack.

I realized that I was cold one night on the JMT with my 1/8″ foam pad….so I switched to a 1/4″ pad and I sleep warm and happy.

I realized that my feet were cold in my budget quilt, so I bought GooseFeet Down Booties, which added 2-3 oz, but I sleep warm at night.

I realized that I did not care to use my shoes under my head as a pillow, so I bought a pillow case with light fleece on one side that was a stuff sack for my rain gear, which was my pillow stuffing at night….this a 1 oz luxury.

Recently, I replaced my Platypus 1 L water bottle for a Cnoc Vecto 2L water bottle with a bottom that opens up wide to make it easy to scoop up water….2.6 oz vs. 1.3 oz, but it was more efficient and easier to use, which improved the quality of my “trail life”.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B5MV294/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The point of all of this is this: I cut away all the stuff that I did not need to save weight, then I realized that I wanted to add a little weight back into my pack for comfort and efficiency.

I don’t weigh my pack for base weight because I know that every single item that I have chosen to carry has been carefully consider. I have determined that what I have chosen is the best for me in the way that I like to hike. So what does base weight matter at that point?

Sometimes, we might debate a bivy that is 5.5 – 6.0 ounces vs. an inner net that weights 8 oz.

In the end, the debate is over the weight of a single power/energy bar…..which could be either very important or really silly….just a perspective.

Tony

Being able to sit up in a bug-free tent to me is important, but I’m not you. So what I like might not be what you like.

The few ounces of weight is well worth the price to me. I think you’re getting some good advice to help you make a decision and hope you find what works best for you.

It’s true because I can easily sit up under my tarp and do not feel claustrophobic in my bivy when that is the set up I have chosen for a trip because I am a 5′ tall woman and will not be true for a lot of the larger people who are out there.