The State of Lightweight Backpacking in Europe

[Jörgen Johansson]

Companion forum thread to: The State of Lightweight Backpacking in Europe

Lightweight backpacking is growing in Europe. What makes it unique and what are the similarities to lightweight backpacking in the US?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Thanks Jorgen for that very comprehensive look at both European UL backpackers and the European UL and SUL backpacking industry.

As an “elder of the tribe” (73) I got into UL backpacking at 62 when I found BPL, and I am making my 3 season and winter packs a bit lighter every year.

Maybe I’m “conservative” by your standards but I always use frame backpacks for the comfort of weight transfer to my hip belt. Currently I’m using an Osprey EXOS 58 with side pockets. It’s the most comfortable pack I’ve owned out of 8 packs.

My solo tent is a Tarptent Moment DW. at 34 oz. (0.96 kg.) made by a “large” cottage industry. It’s light enough to be durable and large enough to be “liveable”. European backpacking tentmakers (including British), for example, seem also to be “cottage industries” when judged by US standards of size. Some British tentmakers come to mind.

->In a few years I may migrate to a solo Cuben fiber tent like the S.M.D. Skyscape X. Six Moon Designs  is an even smaller tentmaker than Tarptent, by a good margin, thus qualifying as a “cottage industry”.

My 3 season sleeping bag is a Western Mountaineering Megalite down bag. European sleeping bag makers also make very high quality down bags so there is not much difference here EXCEPT that many US purveyors of down garments have begun to use down DWR treatments, a sign of innovation that Europeans may soon embrace.

-> Areas where I may lighten up are rain parka and sleeping pads.                                                                My one pound eVent parks is seen as “heavy” by some. And every year sleeping mattresses get lighter. My current Prolite regular pad isn’t heavy but it’s not SUL either.

Sleeping pads is another area of US innovation and their pads, from makers like Thermarest and Big Agnes, are being sold in healthy numbers in Europe from the evidence in European online catalogs.

Is the US “a nation of tinkerers” who just can’t seem to leave sell enough alone? Yep. Witness the plethora of stove innovations.

But we must again look at the physical environment of the US v.s. that of Europe, western as well as eastern Europe. I lived in Pennsylvania most of my life and “Penn’s woods” as the states extensive woodlands are affectionately called by Pennsylvanians cover at least 50% of the state. Most other states in the US, even ones as heavily populated as Pennsylvania, have a lot of places to backpack. Now I live in Nevada, as state so huge and so lightly populated that it is a backpacker’s paradise – well,  IF you can find water, often a limiting factor.

Much of Europe does not have the extensive areas of woodlands, prairie grasslands, rivers, lakes and desert that the US does. Thus the backpacking market is more limited due to Europeans limited access to good “backpackable” areas.

In fact many European backpackers come to the US to backpack our iconic trails that are to them Bucket List trips, And many Europeans also purchase US made backpacking gear here, use it and return to Europe with “used” gear they can claim, for the most part, that they bought in Europe to avoid paying duty on it. I’ve seen this happen several times with my Canadian friends.

A heck of a lot more Europeans come to the US to backpack and climb than vice-versa. We have so many beautiful and varied places to backpack that it is a big tourist draw.

 

[Cameron M]

Thanks for the article. As you mention, I agree that the combination of thru-hikes and relatively benign weather have been major factors for encouraging American UL developments. Also, that many Europeans are insulated from a hard look at their equipment by refuge hiking, and are more suspicious of lightweight gear because even a summer hike has a good chance of being cold and wet.

I would add that California, in particular, is a place of innovation where we are used to applying technology and “thinking different” to all endeavors. I don’t think that it is an accident that I meet so many engineers who adopt UL.

[Mark Roberts]

Nice summary Jörgen.

I think the marketplace in the US and Europe are so different that that too affects the success and visibility of UL. Take the US, where you have huge chains like REI and Backcountry, where most people buy their outdoor gear. But even the cottage manufacturers in the USA have the whole country to target. In Europe, we don’t really have a major continent-wide retailer (well, there are a few like Bergzeit, but I feel that we are very regionally tied in Europe; Brits but from Britain, Germans from Germany etc.).  I think language plays a significant role in it too. The US shares a common language to information is more readily available. Here in Europe, people in Finland read sites in Finnish, so it remains a fairly closed source of information.

The big chains in the US do offer some UL gear, so the masses are at least exposed to the concept. In Europe, you’ve got to know what you’re looking for or you just won’t find it, and when you start searching in English for things, you inevitably find more things from the US, via the glut of information available in English.

 

[Mark]

Struggling to see the purpose behind the article.

As Europe is made up of many different regions with extremely different climates and people, i don’t see how a quick summation does anyone any favours or helps.

I don’t see how generalisations, sweeping statements and opinions are of any help to anyone.

Does anyone doing the PCT care what 1 author believes is the average age of someone that chooses the carry a specific pack weight?

If so how on earth does it help them?

Call me cynical but the article seems to me as though the author had a deadline and just filled it up with nonsense.

My advice is that if anyone is interested in hiking in Europe they should join the usual European forums and ask, rather than relying on 3rd hand information of vastly sweeping generalisations.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Kattt]

In my experience the fact that a lot of UL gear is not very durable is one of the main reasons some Europeans don’t buy into the trend . Another reason is that they view it as just that, a trend. Maybe they will learn ” the way” and eventually UL with catch on , but the people I have seen in the mountains there are pretty serious and knowledgeable and no one was carrying anything ridiculous so maybe we will drop the trend after we  learn a few more things and meet them half way.

[Ken Thompson]

So sad to hear of Roger Brown’s passing.

Bad news from Laufbursche also.

[Mark]

In my experience the fact that a lot of UL gear is not very durable is one of the main reasons some Europeans don’t buy into the trend . Another reason is that they view it as just that, a trend. Maybe they will learn ” the way” and eventually UL with catch on , but the people I have seen in the mountains there are pretty serious and knowledgeable and no one was carrying anything ridiculous so maybe we will drop the trend after we  learn a few more things and meet them half way.

That’s the thing though Kat, European hiking cannot really be summed up.
I’m a Brit living in Greece, last year i flew from Greece where i was hiking the day before i left in shorts, cotton teeshirt and sandals, to England where i was wearing 2 jumpers and waterproofs for pretty much 5 days straight.

I can hike in Greece in pretty much anything, if you venture out into the the more remote areas of Scotland in the wrong clothing when the weather is bad it’s not much of an exaggeration to say it’s dangerous.

Then in between you have the Pyrenees, the Alps, the Dolomites or hiking around some areas of Holland where you actually grin if you come across any elevation.

It’s hugely different in every single respect, you have over 24 different languages, 50 countries and nearly 750 million people.

I just think any article that randomly makes sweeping statements that covers all those differences is pointless to the point of being dangerous if anyone trusts it, or just unhelpful to anyone else.

I’ve travelled extensively around the world, i’ve cycled across the USA, i wouldn’t dream of jumping to conclusions and summing up the USA in a article.

[Jörgen Johansson]

Mark,

“Without generalisations, nothing gets said” :-)

Of course Europe is extremely diverse when it comes to climate, geology and many other things a hiker will have to manage. Not to mention languages and cultures. But climate-wise the US is also half a continent, also with great diversity. So I see nothing wrong, per se, in trying to look for and ask other people about patterns and from that generalise on perceived or real differences between these continents. I think most readers are aware of this and will realise that an article like this will contain a lot of opinions from all participants. This is not science and ‘educated guesses’ is perhaps the best way to start an exchange of ideas. If these opinions are pointless is of course up to each reader to determine. However, I fail to see how they could be dangerous.

[HkNewman]

Looking at the Sweden C2C trail pictures, thinking cuben fiber mid shelters (capable of almost reaching the ground) would offer protection and privacy.

[Mark]

Hi Jörgen,

Thank you for the response.

As i said in my first post i’m struggling to see the point of the article.

It seems to sway from massive generalisations down to unnamed individuals opinions, without any indication of who this individual is, there experience and areas they hike in.

Even if we take each written opinion as gospel you then offer a different opinion by someone else, it’s like saying “my friend is a top mechanic, he says brandX is by far the most reliable car” an opinion that depending on the experience and knowledge of your friend might be worth something, but then you seem to counter that with things like “but my other friend says brandX is not so good”

Did you interview the listed individuals?

If so i would personally find their interviews more useful than this article.

 

As i say it just seems like a filler article to me as it doesn’t actually say anything.

Even IF you had conclusive proof of “The state of lightweight backpacking in Europe” what purpose does it serve, how do such sweeping generalisations or uncorroborated quotes from unknown individuals help anyone that was thinking about lightweight backpacking in Europe?

Where are the links to European lightweight kit manufacturers?

Where are your recommendations?

Where are the links to European lightweight forums?

Where are your opinions and your experiences?

Sorry if my posts seem a little harsh, but people pay money for this sort of extra content, yet 9 times out of 10 you can find better articles free of charge from most of the trusted hiking bloggers.

I had the same problem with previous “reviews” on here, i parted with my hard earned cash on a recommendation by a article on here, only to find the product useless.

Afterwards it turned out the reviewer never used the product out their house.

[Nick Gatel]

Ha!

So what is The State of Lightweight Backpacking in the US?

It is a niche, a small minority. But we, the faithful evangelicals of LW, UL, SUL seem to ignore this reality.

I bet the majority of backpacking gear in the US is sold via retailers like REI or even Dick’s Sporting Goods. Do you see Cuben backpacks in these places — no you see heavy Gregory, Deuter, Kelty, Osprey and other brands — walls covered with heavy load haulers. You don’t see Caldera Cones, but there are plenty of Whisperlites, Jet Boils, and other heavy stoves. There are a few Ti pots, but plenty of stainless steel pot sets to include a 1 quart and a 2 quart pot, plus a frying pan. You don’t see quilts, you see heavy mummy bags — many with 650 fill down or synthetics. You see few mid shelters; maybe a BD Megalight, but you see many heavy tents with optional burly footprints… and it goes on. I bet REI sells more Rambo type knives that Swiss Army Classics — they even sell machetes.

Dream on.

[Jörgen Johansson]

Hi Mark,

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I thought that it was pretty clear that the people mentioned in the beginning of the article belong to the ones interviewed by me. They are named and their credentials and where they have hiked is also stated. As mentioned, there was also some knowledgable people I interviewed that were not named. Some of their opinions might not have endeared them to employers or connections in the outdoor industry, since mere mention of the word ‘ultralight’ can be provocative to some. For this reason I have chosen to use anonymous quotes to illustrate the conclusions drawn, which might also be considered my opinions. This article was not meant to be neither a scholarly text nor a guide for people wanting to backpack in Europe. It was also mainly aimed at the considerable number of BPL readers in Europe. I am sorry that it has not lived up to your expectations.

[Link .]

Jorgen, Thanks for your work on all your BPL articles you have written, I appreciate it and as a side I own your book and have enjoyed it also, keep up the good work.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Jorgen,

I enjoyed the article.  I live in Southern California and hike the Sierras and the SW deserts.  My European hiking experience is limited to Iceland, Ireland & the UK.  One of the things that I have noticed is the vast differences in climate, trail conditions & weather conditions.  The gear that I use in the Sierras above treeline in July is quite different than what i would use in the Cairngorms in July.  The diversity of the hiking in Europe is pretty broad and I image that there is no cookie cutter approach to lightweight backpacking.  Best regards.

[S. Steele]

Jörgen,
I recently returned from Europe, particularly Germany and the UK.
Most disappointed in the packs, no different than what is selling in the USA – principally side mounted water bottles, waist belts with and without storage.
One of my relations in Bavaria goes on long trips justifying such a pack owing to
capacity needs.
Spoke with two Germans from Stuttgart, Germany, commenting that clubs and groups of friends hike during the weekends which should not require more than 20 pounds in my opinion for three season hiking. They estimate that as many as 30% to 40% of Germans enjoy hiking which I might consider rather high. I went hiking with wife and friends along the Neckar River, wine country north of Stuttgart, two years ago and was surprised to see so many Germans gathered at a Bier Garten that were hiking that day.
They were carrying the typical hiking pack with/without side water bottles and with hip belts and with/without side storage.
So, what I can surmise is that the manufacturers are essentially responsible as well as the lightweight hiking community for the failure in Europe as well in the USA, for not getting out the value of lightweight hiking and products showing weight differentials of products as well as estimated durability and cost. The message and the products are not normally found in the shops. In Wales, this past January, the same old traditional/contemporary backpacks are being sold in professional outdoor sport stores.
One issue that is missing in many backpacks is a front strap tie-down location for gloves, glasses, head caps/balaclavas and neck gators for changing weather/temperature conditions. I include it on my pack – very convenient.
Let’s be clear about the value of lightweight hiking. Its’ the performance we gain in speed, endurance and comfort that makes it worth wile.

[Jörgen Johansson]

S.Steele,

Interesting to hear about your observations from Europe. And it seems to confirm what one of my interviewees said: “People buy what stores sell”. And stores do play it safe, selling what they have always sold to people buying what they have always bought.

[S. Steele]

Jörgen,
National outdoor sport retailers such as REI, LLBean, internet based others here in the USA and abroad need to be sold on the benefits for them to stock the gear as well as educating their sales staff to communicate the benefits.
BPL is a community of individuals. We’re only educating ourselves and new-comers. If BPL had sufficient funds or funding it could produce or have production of educational films for the Discovery channel and other sport television channels to develop a national following. The word needs to get out to a large population.
It currently looks like a cottage industry and a silent number of adherents.
My transition from standard to lightweight packing began in 1970, after a mountain overnight hike in 85 to 90 degree day temperature with a 35 pound pack weight. Entering the snow field on top, rain came in and the temperature dropped about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. My boots were wet, heavy and stiff. I partially burned them as they dried above the dinner fire. In Switzerland, the same year I purchased a pair of Raichle boots, supple leather and rubber sole – great boots. As the years progressed I transitioned to trail running sneakers, made my own packs and integrated items. I continuously reduced weight while maintaining durability. My pack weight dropped to 8 to 10 pounds for a day hike and is now down to about six pounds. The weight of my current pack is 7 ounces empty. My signal mirror has a flint epoxied on a side edge with a bar of soft magnesium on the other side and a diamond knife/fish hook sharpener on another edge. The mirror has a lanyard with a knife and a whistle attached. A quality compass is polyurethaned to the whistle – a logical integration of a bunch of survival items, not a bunch of easily misplaced survival items.
I trust that many of us have similar transitional stories to tell.
In the USA, We need a national education program to get the ball rolling. Europe and elsewhere needs the same. The television media is a powerful tool able to educate a large population swiftly on the subject.

[Nick Gatel]

Keep in mind that big retailers will shy away from really light gear… too many warranty returns, especially by people who don’t understand that some UL gear needs more careful use. In every industry there is an acceptable or target return rate and any product that exceeds that is subject to re-design (think: more robust and heavier) or discontinued.

[Jörgen Johansson]

S.Steele and Nick Gatel,
I agree with both of you, and so does the people I have interviewed. ‘Commersialism’ as a hinder for lightweight backpacking to spread is very important. Much of what Ray Jardine had to say on the subject in Beyond Backpacking still goes (warranty returns etc). To this is added ‘conservatism’ from users. Some deep set belief that the outdoors is a dangerous place and you need ‘solid stuff’ to keep you safe. I spent a lot of time hiking in Alaska a couple of years ago pondering and chewing the fact that ‘fear’ is such a big part of outdoor marketing. That is, all the terrible things that will happen to you unless you have the right boots, the right jacket etc. This is also echoed by different outdoor organisations with things like the 10 essentials, much of the advice from the National Park Service and what not. Please note that I am not saying this is always without reason or not well-intended. But IMHO it is too dominant. Sometimes it is all you hear.

Of course, fear sells, as media like tabloids are well aware, Some politicians as well… That is probably well enough for revenue for the next quarter. But looking 10-20 years from now I everybody, including the industry, would benefit from more people going outdoors. And perhaps fear is not the right way to accomplish this?

Breaking through this moat and wall of conservatism and commercialism is not an easy thing to do. Which I think is why many of the people I interviewed do not think that lightweight backpacking will increase rapidly in the near future. Even if we all wish that would happen.

[James Marco]

Yes, there is a high degree of commercialism involved in packing. But, the market for UL things is slight. The common perception is that:
1) UL gear is less durable, and may not last for even a single trip.
2) UL gear is often do it yourself.
3) UL gear means loss of comfort.

Back in the 70’s, I purchased my first “new” 3200ci pack. It was made with heavy nylon cloth and weighed 2lb2oz. It has an internal magnesium frame. Even by today’s standards it is a light pack. And more than durable for even 20 years of trips. There have been no new pack design changes over the past few hundred years, only new materials and improved sewing.

I picked up an old aluminum camp “cook” set. It had a 5oz, 1.7L (2qt to the brim) pot that I still use today. The whole set cost ~$8 at the time.

Shortly after they were first introduced, I picked up an old SVEA. It is my preferred stove/cup for long distance camping due to it’s small size, reliability, and overall durability. Even when I head out solo UL.

Tarps and small tents are easy to make. I made a 3 person single walled tent at around 2 pounds (we had kids then) about 35 years ago for about $40. At the time and for 10 years after, I could find nothing lighter at that size. I make my own carbon hiking staffs for around $10 each(for friends and family) and competitive with $80-$100 staffs at ~4oz. I have made several sleeping pads (though lately I have been in love with my NeoAir due to it’s softness.) DIY is an important part of UL hiking. Even if it is possible to buy into it, I will often make my own gear, anyway. It is usually as good, often better than you can buy.

I have been UL for at least 20 years (probably longer for weekend trips.) A few times I have been out and been unable to sleep due to cold. A few times I have been miserably wet, for days. UL can be uncomfortable if you skip something you actually need. It requires a skill set in knowing EXACTLY what you need and how to use it. Jumping in to UL travel without knowledge is like diving into unknown waters. It is not something you can manage to accomplish successfully on your first trip out iff(when) conditions turn sour.

All this means vendors will sell you safe goods, overdone in a lot of different ways, and, many times they can’t/won’t bother even stocking real UL gear.

[S. Steele]

James,
I as well had a Svea stove. I trust that you haven’t forgotten that it weighs one pound plus/minus. You probably own a three ounce gas stove today. We could go on and on with the past versus the present. The difference today is the ethos. It is not just lightweight, but the performance gains – increased speed, endurance and comfort. It takes experience and knowledge which BPL, for example makes available. You cannot guarantee me that a lighter material will wear more quickly than a heavier product. For example, my polypropylene zip long sleeve turtleneck shirt purchased two decades ago and still going strong, lighter than a polyester type and less hydrophobic. It’s better than wool which is heavier and I guarantee you that it probably won’t last more than about six months or a bit longer without failure. I presented a discussion of polypro previously on BPL. I’ve abraded my packs in chutes and passage below wind-blown downed trees, otherwise in my forty-five plus years of hiking I’ve not experienced destruction to my equipment. So, where do we stand? I think that it’s the message. BPL has it and all I’m saying is that it’s not getting out. Retailers can play it safe as you say. I say as well that they’re not educated on the subject. If they were, they would be communicating the benefits, stocking the products and recommending them to their customers.

[S. Steele]

Jörgen,
Jardine is a good example of a long distance hiker who experimented with ways and means of focusing on the essentials to comfortably hike, not to be a beast of burden. I will however never carry an umbrella. I say it in jest and seriously.
My main concern is that being human and having torn three ligaments in my left knee slipping on wet leaves on boulder while hiking alone had reinforced my first aid and survival concerns. I had a signal mirror but it was dusk and I was in trees and about 100 feet above the forest floor. I had a whistle, but the woods would have cloaked the sound for the distance needed to be effective. I had four high altitude flares with explosive report at their apogee. Frankly, I speculated that if I set-off the flares which provided the most effective attention I would be carried away on a stretcher to an ambulance. It troubled me. So I slid down to the forest floor and limped my way out. My thighs atrophied during recovery. I transitioned to crutches and had to relearn how to walk. We don’t know what we’ll encounter in nature, but it sure is a blessing being out there.

[Sam C]

Jardine was an extreme rock climber/mountaineer for what, 19 years before he hiked the PCT?  Then a few years after he and his wife rowed a boat across the Atlantic not mention cross-country skiing to the South Pole.  Before he even hit the PCT his base level tolerance for discomfort was already higher than what any of us may find acceptable.  I mean, considering that he propelled himself up rock walls–some 1000s of feet tall–with his fingertips and toes.  Is it any wonder why he took the approach to the PCT that he did?  Shoot, he probably could’ve still broke a few records carrying a 70 lb. pack!

My point with the above is that Jardine is not normal, yet, we are all basing our current understandings and ideals of UL based on what he did some 25 years ago or so.  Obviously, it can be done, and is every day, but the clues for why it has yet, if ever, to catch on with the mainstream should not be a mystery.

European, American, whatever, it is not about packing fears as much as it is about survival.  So, packing fears is very rational thought.  Some may also enjoy having that extra stuff with them.  And if they don’t learn, well then that is their burden to carry.

I don’t understand this idea of expanding UL into the masses.  Of course, some stand to profit from it, but for the rest, I just don’t get the proselytizing that goes on.  Gregory, Kelty, REI, and a few others all made UL packs in 2000s.  Well, outside of Kelty it can be argued that they were not truly UL.  Compared to the rest of the packs in their lineups, they certainly were, though.  The market didn’t respond expect to perhaps Granite Gear and Osprey’s Exos packs.

Sure, warranties and returns aside, I believe there is a misconception here; at least regarding U.S. gear companies.  Most seem to believe that the big producers are forcing what they want the consumer to buy onto consumers, which is not true.  It certainly is true of the cottage industry, however.  If UL were to explode you better believe that Gregory, Kelty, REI, et al would respond.  It’s the customers who tell them what products to produce.

There is something else, too:  do you really want it to explode?  I mean, there is a certain level of pride/elitism in carrying a Zpacks, MLD, HMG, etc. in a sea of Ospry’s and REIs let alone with cooking a meal on top of an empty cat food tin.

There are many reasons for why UL is not more popular than it is and they seem to be the same for NA and Europe.  I also see another similarity:  the shorter the distance between A and B, and/or the shorter the trip, the more gear that is carried.  One can more easily carry 40+ lbs over a weekend or a week knowing that it will be over soon.  Needlessly suffering?  Perhaps, but knowing that burden will be lifted within a week vs. three more months is easier to bear.

With that, I am actually surprised by the article.  I had assumed incorrectly that Europeans would have taken to UL in larger numbers considering they typically drive smaller cars, live in smaller flats, eat more sensibly sized meals, consume less, and so on.  A European taking a minimalist approach to hiking makes more sense to me than an American doing so.  Perhaps instead of getting away from it all, or packing fears, a European carrying a traditional load is simply their way of momentarily living large?

[S. Steele]

Sam C,
It is and it isn’t the customers who tell the manufacturers what products to produce. The logical percentage of customers telling a manufacturer is slight as to a more frequent knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer enhancing and developing products, testing them and getting them into the market place. Do the retailers know what they’re selling? It’s normally the big stores with few knowledgeable and experienced staff selling the products. People in the main buy what is on the shelf. The majority don’t have the knowledge and experience to discern what and why to buy. Few do research to try and learn if a particular product is a rational choice.
I developed a pack weighing 7 oz., 1.9 oz rip-stop polyurethane coated nylon that eliminates seven bio-mechanical inefficiencies of roughly 85% of the packs sold in NA and Europe. Big deal for those interested in increased speed, endurance and comfort. It is however an issue with retailers who are happy selling the middle of the road stuff. A new product that they don’t know anything about. Does it have authoritative testing or professional set(s) of athletes competed and won any contests? Newness is not a welcome, it is a question, a understandable skeptical response.
No, you don’t have to be a beast of burden as you so rightly note. You don’t have to suffer carrying all that weight because you’ve decided to travel a hundred or so miles on your next vacation. A days’ hike, return and out again from a base camp or out to another location is my preference or local favorite day hike trail is fine for me as well. I love the wilderness, but I do get bored hiking long distances and refuse to be a beast of burden. Probably about 90% of all outdoor sports is done in one day. It is normally not a multi-day activity. Look at the capacities and weights of packs that are used for a day of activity, absurd. There are exceptions to justify large capacity, but not the norm. Some justification is specialty gear or used for day and occasional extended use. Again, it’s an issue of knowledge and experience as to what and why I need to carry for the particular days’ outing. A day of activity is what my pack is designed for although it can as well be used for an overnight and survival.
I think we’ve wrung this issue out well enough. Let’s go on to something else.

[Author]

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