The problem with ponchos in wind

Excellent topic. I am very interested, as I carry a cuben poncho which is also my groundcloth. If I were expecting rain, then I would pack a 2 oz emergency poncho too. In California and Utah I have not had need of either. My plan is to let my legs get wet, and depend on my merino long johns and REI Sahara wind pants and a dry warm upper body to keep me ok.

I do have a dislike for Gortex type rain parkas. They are usually heavy, and I find they wet out after a few hours. Heavy waterproof rain gear like the tree planters and fisherman use works quite well, but is way to heavy for backpacking. Even the popular Frog Toggs at 12 oz are more than I want to carry. Umbrellas are maybe the best, but my hands get cold holding them. If I could attach them to my pack I fear the wind would be much more of an issue than with a poncho.

A good hat like my Sunday afternoon Adventure hat is invaluable in the rain as well as in the sun.

My poncho is perhaps the same as yours, as it too is from Z-Packs. It is a larger size, for use with the Hexamid Twin. Did you add the arms so you can use poles in the rain? Or, why not just keep your arms closer to your body undercover of the poncho? I guess the arms of my standard poncho cover about to my elbows.

I initially ordered the rain pants from Z Packs too, but I sent them back because of the poor fit and weight.

I have a couple ponchos; a GoLite and a MLD Pro Poncho.  The largest issue I’ve found is that when the wind is howling, there’s too much material to try and keep under control compared to a rain shell, even with cord around the waist.

I don’t mind wet legs so that’s not the issue for me.

For me, I bring ponchos on trips with a favorable forecast where I don’t expect to wear a rain shell and I expect that I’ll cowboy camp.

I have tried another BPLer’s cuben Zpacks poncho that has the zippers on the sides and I did think that this is one application where possibly cuben works better than silnylon, but I’ve yet to purchase one and I’m only speculating that it may be a viable replacement for a rain shell in adverse conditions.

In high winds the issue is less about it flapping if you have a nice fitting poncho like the Zpacks poncho.  The superior ventilation becomes a con vs a rain shell when you need protection from the wind and cold.

When I bring my poncho I wear a nylon belt on my pants (easiest place to store it). When I use the poncho I put the belt over it.

This helps keep it from blowing around and lets me adjust the length (especially on hills) by pulling excess poncho above the belt. I also tuck my arms in above the belt when they get chilly (I don’t use hiking poles).

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I have one that I made from the parcho pattern from Quest. It has an elastic draw cord at the bottom hem. I think it works pretty good.</p>

Erica, I do use poles, but I would need arms to the poncho anyway. I do most hikes in areas above the polar circle in Scandinavia (in summer) in areas with a lot of rain. You have to be be prepared for wind, rain and temperatures below 40 F at the same time, if I let my arms get wet then I would be to cold. Nor is it a good alternative to tuck them inside the poncho when crossing a slippery boulder field.

I have the smallest zpacks poncho and it was nearly to small when I had a little bit to much camera gear and food for 10 days in the backpack so I had some problems putting it on, but with that obstacle overcome it was a fantastic experience to be able to go for hours in rain without getting wet or to cold or to warm and having the camera dry but ready on my chest. I need to be able to handle 3-5 days of constant raining, I didnt have that (luckily), but I had enough to convince me that the right poncho will outperform a wbl rain jacket in prolonged raining for the kind of hiking I do.

Not perfect – I need to be able to take on the rain gear on quickly and effortless – but clearly the way forward after frustrating years with breathable rain gear. So now I have bought a cheap poncho on Aliexpress that I am trying to adjust to find the optimal solution for me. That is also the reason I am trying to understand the problems people experience with poncho and wind – if possible I want to make adjustments to mitigate such problems, but at the moment I don’t really understand the problems since I haven’t experienced them. But it is of cause good to hear that many don’t seem to think winds is a major problem for this smaller kind of poncho.

When I have found my optimal solution I probably will make one in cuben or buy one from zpack and adjust it.

Ponchos flapping in high wind, is it an annoyance or is it tearing your poncho apart?

Make a simple belt from guyline and a toggle. Run the line up under your pack and let it sit on top of your waist belt buckle so it doesn’t slide down. Tuck the sides in as needed. That tames the loose fabric and gives you a spare guyline as well.

I have added simple arms to a zpacks style poncho

So does that not just make it a baggy rain jacket? That still sounds like a useful design, of course, I’m just curious to what makes it still a poncho at this point.

Hmm, I don’t know really when it stops being a poncho and starts being a jacket. But also with arms I still have (all?) the advantages of the poncho such as:

– going over the backpack so the pack increases ventilation instead of killing it

– allowing me to adjust ventilation a lot without getting stuff on my chest, mainly my camera, wet

– allowing me to take off my backpack without taking off the rain gear (the arms really only cover from the elbow and down so you can easily slip out of then), you can also put the backpack on without removing the poncho but that is a bit more tricky

– using it for something else such as groundsheet or tarp

Hello Gunnar,

Merry Christmas to you in Scandinavia. Thanks for your explanation of adding sleeves to your poncho. And thanks for your thorough testing! This conversation gives me much more confidence in the viability of a poncho in challenging conditions.

Erica,

Merry Christmas to you in USA as well.

I feel I have a lot of testing still to do. All others that have gone down the route of adding arms to ponchos seem to have ended up with much more complicated solutions with downsides I don’t want (such as the Packa), so I am still weary to find out why they have done so, but so far I haven’t been close to issues that cant be handled by fine-tuning. This thread hasn’t – so far – come up with any wind related problem that is a showstopper either. So yes, I think it can be used for more than the occasional shower.

I add a photo (in a separate post from my iphone) of the latest iteration on rain arms, now having written about them in several posts. It is the best and also the simplest version so far. Two seams per arm. The end is folded up since I haven’t yet decided on the arm length, but when I have I will add something so I can tighten it around the wrist, but I will keep a inch folded up, it keeps rain from the arms off your hands at least if you use poles.

The PONCHO VILLA from Antigravity gear had an unusual shape that had a kind of sleeve and the Sea to Summit poncho has a string that attaches lower on the poncho between your legs to keep it from blowing around in the wind.

Thanks Link! Interesting. If a strap between the legs has been used by Sea to Summit in a commercial product that hopefully means that it works reasonable well.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>What do you feel the problems with the packa are, gunnar?</p>

Hi Jonathan

I should say to begin with that I haven’t tried the Packa, but there are a few reasons that it isn’t my first choice:

– it cannot vent as well as good poncho, its long, its restricted around the backpack and even though it has large openings under the armpits it is not like a poncho where you can have the whole side open.

– The main adjustment of ventilation is opening it in the front at the chest. It will get your chest wet and it will not keep things such as camera that you keep available on your front dry. I prefer to adjust ventilation on the sides

– You can´t get a flat rectangular sheet of it. That much reduces alternative uses.

– You cant get your pack off and on without removing it.

– It is more difficult to access gear with it on compared to poncho.

– It is a lot of fabric.

An advantage the Parka has over a poncho that seems useful is that you can take it off but still keep it on the backpack so it is easily available if it starts raining again. As I write this now I am thinking that nothing stops me from attaching my poncho to the backpack. I would give me the same advantage plus having a maybe easier way to put it on when windy, plus an easy way to keep it in check when windy, with the downside that it increases the fiddle factor if I want to take on/off the backpack with keeping the poncho on. Hmm have to think about that one.

I guess it is also a personal preference for simple solutions when they exists and works well.

I am sure the Packa is warmer if its cold, however my only requirement for my rain gear is to keep me reasonable dry hour after hour day after day in all weather and in as large temperature range as possible. If I am reasonably dry, I have other means to stay warm if its cold.

If that is really not achievable, the rain gear must definitely stop me from becoming wet from the outside, but the latter is not at all the primary goal, then I could just use any non-venting rain jacket. It rather goes as a failure that is possible to handle without risking your health.

On most of my trips the temperature can vary between about 30 F and 90 F. Above something like 70 – 80 F rain gear isn’t really necessary if you are on the move, but in order not to get wet from inside up to 80 F you really want your rain gear to ideally provide no warmth at all.

Not that a poncho is ideal in all those conditions and solves everything, but it is the best I have found and so far it have worked better than I initially expected. But I am still trying to mitigate the downsides (obviously, staring this thread).

Good summary Gunnar of the pros/cons of a poncho versus a Packa. Has anyone made a poncho with a bump-out or box-shaped alcove sized to encompass the backpack, similar to the packcover section of the Packa? This might allow the poncho to form-fit more tightly around the body, especially in the butt area, reducing the amount of flopping in the wind.

Has anyone made a poncho with a bump-out or box-shaped alcove
Well, sort of:
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_mntn_poncho/
It has a Velcro strap under the pack.

Cheers

Exped do one.

I recently cut a hole in the back of a Zpacks’ poncho and taped on one of their pack covers to get the same effect. I’ve yet to have it out in the rain though.

Hi William

“I recently cut a hole in the back of a Zpacks’ poncho and taped on one of their pack covers to get the same effect. I’ve yet to have it out in the rain though.”

That sounds interesting! Please come back and tell how you think it works when you have gained some experience of it.

Great analysis Gunnar. I’m interested to see where you get to with your poncho design. I assume you’ve seen Roger Caffin’s design? It’s the most appealing I’ve seen, and a few users here have made versions with some interesting variations But currently I’m lacking the skills to confidently my own build.

Going over the Col de Bonhomme in midsummer, near Chamonix.
We were warm enough inside our ponchos. Very versatile.

Cheers