The COVID 19 outbreak. Does it mean MORE backpacking this year?

[Kattt]

Ah ok. Got it.

[jscott]

People are out walking the streets in my neighborhood like nobody’s business. Most are wearing masks or buffs but everyone keeps distance. I suppose it’s much harder in more urban environments.

There’s a ton of open beaches near where Katt lives. It seems crazy not to be able to walk on a near empty beach. But if they were open people would drive to them from over the hill (Santa Clara). Not good.

there are signs up in Bolinas–a small beach town in Marin– telling people to go home. But Bolinas isn’t about tourism.

I have a friend on the city council in Maob. Haven’t heard from her yet. Moab is small town snarky like any small town where people line up and bicker. I don’t envy her.

[W I S N E R !]

I hear you Kat.

As a teacher I’m really sensitive to what’s going on in houses across this country right now.  I have a particular student from past in mind…someone with very intense special needs; I cannot imagine what his household is like right now with everyone cooped up together with absolutely no assistance.

For a staggering number of kids, school is the one safe place they can be…

So I don’t want to sound like I’m downplaying these troubles; I have no doubt that for many people, stay at home issues are in fact worse than this virus on a personal level.

So much uncertainty here.  There’s going to be a tipping point, obviously.

As for the tension of balancing the individual with the group in regards to shutdowns and forest closures, etc…I don’t know what to say, it’s a can of worms.  I can’t walk on my once-quiet local stream right now; I don’t like that one bit.  But a week ago it was overrun with people from all over Los Angeles, bigger crowds than a holiday weekend, every day.

How do you have both?

 

[BlackHatGuy]

It’s certainly a worthy discussion Kat, and goes hand in hand with the bailouts/financial support. I think it’s becoming obvious that it’s the poor and near poor that will be most affected by this, not only directly but financially as well. Some studies have shown increased suicides/overdoses/etc. during times of extreme financial difficulty. And it’s the lockdown that’s creating such financial difficulty for many, but especially for the poor and near poor. Such things should be taken into account.

[W I S N E R !]

I think we’re going to hear calls to get back to it real soon…while those making those calls continue to remain safely isolated at home or in 100th floor corner offices.  And rather than face calls of injustice, they’ll deflect on account of the fact that people have to get back to it to survive…

As they say, the shortage will be divided among the peasants.

[Kattt]

It’s nice to hear a couple of people be able to talk about this. These issue should not just be brushed aside as “nothing compared to…”.

[W I S N E R !]

I have absolutely no doubt that a lot of people have it bad enough economically, physically, and emotionally under stay at home orders that in their world gambling with a COVID  X-% mortality rate seems the easier option.

[Jerry Adams]

I didn’t want to chaff this up : )

First, we have to reduce the virus to close to zero

Maybe a few million people are currently infected.  If we just let this play out in a normal epidemic manner, it will get 100 times worse.  At some point we’ll have to acknowledge that reducing the virus close to zero with aggressive shutdown is the only way, so, the sooner the better

Then we can start the economy back up.  Countries like China, South Korea, Taiwan are a good example to follow.  Rigorous testing to detect any new flare-ups and shut it down before it gets big.  Continue doing social distancing at a more relaxed level as long as the virus stays close to zero.  Carefully monitor anyone entering the country from an area with active infections.

Things won’t be back to like before, but we’ll be able to function somewhat normally

Until a vaccine or treatment is available.

[Roger Caffin]

Warning: I am going to be deliberately contrarian and provocative here. If you don’t like that, go away.

All this talk about the stress and anguish of social distancing and lockdown/isolation makes me laugh. It is little more than self-indulgence. Compare the comfort in which you are living with the people in the Warsaw ghetto in WW II, or in Auschwitz – and yet the survivors managed to lead happy lives after the war, with some of them living to this day.

People survived the Spanish Flu, the trenches of the wars, the Black death, the Mongol invasion, the overthrow of Rome, the summer that wasn’t, and so on. Get real.

Cheers (with a skeletal grin)

[W I S N E R !]

“I am going to be deliberately contrarian and provocative here.”

I think it’s generally referred to as trolling.  

[BlackHatGuy]

Yeah, I hear ya Rog. All these whiners who are losing their jobs, perhaps forever, probably losing their homes, some losing their lives, cracks me up every time.

[Kattt]

Ugh. I don’t even know what to say to such high horse bullshit.

[Kattt]

Somehow my expletive will be more offensive than laughing at people whose lives might get wrecked.

[Roger Caffin]

Is it trolling, or trying to make you think? Opinions differ.

I was not talking about the people losing their jobs; I was referring to people complaining that they can’t go tearing around in cars or gathering at campgrounds or going backpacking for a while. The last one is appropriate for BPL.

If 20 people lose their jobs or homes for some reason, that’s unfortunate, but that’s life. If 20% of America lose their jobs and be unable to pay their mortgages for a while, will the government (elected politicians) permit the banks etc to kick them out of their homes? That’s a lot of voters.

I can’t go walking up in the mountains either, but I refuse to complain about it.

Cheers

[Kattt]

You know Roger, in 12 years I yet have to see you admit to a mistake or having misspoken.

You double down with “ trying to make you think” .
cheers to you too.

[BlackHatGuy]

“Is it trolling, or trying to make you think? Opinions differ.”

That’s a wee bit of hubris…

[AK Granola]

The fog of war. Uncertainty is feeding anxiety. We don’t trust our governments who care about their lobbyists instead of us. How long will this last?

So when we get varied projections for lockdown times anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 years – 2 years! 2 years without anyone producing food for everyone?! without working? Inconceivable.  It’s really hard to trust that our governments know what they’re doing. Of course no one has a solid projection. “We don’t know” is probably the most unsettling factor in all of this.

We know it has to end and people have to get back to work. “When” is a huge and incredibly important concept here. “When” determines whether your small business you’ve put 25 years of hard work into, goes belly-up. “When” determines how many more people are out of work. “When” determines how badly the stock market crashes – which affects not just rich speculators (who cares) but all of us with retirement and college savings depending on it. There are so many ripple effects. “When” has to be long enough to stop carnage in the hospitals, and short enough that all the other impacts are minimized. Who makes that call? Do we trust them? Our collective anxiety feeds those who would take advantage of all the chaos for their own gain, pure exploitation. So much of that right now! Ba5turds.

When it’s all done, the numbers of people who’ve committed suicide due to losing jobs and businesses, the numbers of women and children injured or murdered in their homes, etc. as as result of this virus, need to be counted as collateral damage (or however the military likes to tally the damage war does). Not just the number of cases and deaths.

[jscott]

It’s Roger’s style and I have no issues. Come on, he’s just saying we have it better than the people in Auschwitz so stop complaining. Valid point. Ridiculous, but valid.

but really what he’s saying is, so far most people who aren’t infected have all the comforts of home and plenty of food and tp. Live in the moment. And this: relax and don’t be anxious, which is in fact good advice.

So really Roger is just being one of those nice New Age counselors, as is his wont. Wont what you say? he won’t stop annoying Katt.

[BlackHatGuy]

it’s certainly Rog’s style, I agree. My style is to, at times, confront Rog’s style. Why is his style okay and not mine? :-)

[Jerry Adams]

I think a month or two of lockdown is more likely, based on China, then start to turn things back on

If that’s what it turns out to be, then the effect will be a lot less than those examples Roger gave

But probably not good to say to people in distress to quit whining, things were worse in holocaust camps, a pretty low bar to compare to.  Was that one of Roger’s examples? : )

[Jerry Adams]

chaff has definitely moved over to the sane side of the site

[BlackHatGuy]

Bitching and moaning is an age-old device used to better deal with a current situation. No one thinks we have it as bad or worse than Rog’s examples, that doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to be irritated at the current situation and say so. Blowing off steam as it were, which many psychologists think can be a really good thing.

 

[Kattt]

It’s the moderator/troll combo that can be  hard to digest.

[BlackHatGuy]

Jerry’s right though, this thread ought to be moved to chaff

[jscott]

I don’t sense that Rog is trolling at all. I think that word was put out in a lighthearted way. We’re backpackers. We have a lot of comforts.

In London near that walkway over the Thames there’s an old statue to firefighters who died during the blitz. We have to stay safe at home; there was no safe place for them. that’s all he’s saying. It’s a buck up message.

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