Superior Wilderness Designs Big Wild 70

[bradmacmt]

You’re a kook Daryl.  The very best kind, but a kook nonetheless.

Even cutting all the corners you’re not getting a 70 liter pack that can carry 60 pounds well down to a pound.  The necessary foam and structural elements alone will be close to that.  Add fabric to withstand bushwacking, ski carry, etc and sub 2 pounds isn’t really doable with current technology.

Thank you, I didn’t want to be the one who said it :)

 

[Michael B]

Don’t count out us crazy MYOGers who design for specific use cases :). You could probably get between 1-2lb, but it would likely require much more attention and care.

[Chris L]

I’m trying to understand the construction of this pack. Are the sleeves for the stays internal or at they external on the back panel? Wondering if that makes any difference for transferring load to the floating hip belt. I assume the stays are removable? Looks like a cool pack!

[Daryl and Daryl]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/40531/

Here’s a link to a discussion of pack details from about 10 years ago.  Sorry, can’t seem to make a hot link out of it so you’ll have to copy and paste it if you want to look at it.

Wife and I are still using these packs for backpacking.  Typical loads are 25 lbs for me and 20 for her.  1.9 ounce per square yard uncoated ripstop nylon for the bags works well…..for us.  Small holes in fabric over time but no structural problems or ripping.   Her frame spars broke once so I changed to ones with thicker walls like I use on my model.  Nice thing about uncoated ripstop is that I can throw the bags in the washer and remove the salt and sweat from them.  I’m a heavy sweater.

Nice thing about making my own gear is that I only have to satisfy my own needs…..not those of the general public.  And I don’t have to worry about returns and warranties.

 

[Daryl and Daryl]

“sub 2 pounds isn’t really doable with current technology”

OK

[Spencer Lindenberg]

And your MYOG pack could handle 40 pounds no problem?

Does it have any pockets?

Durable fabric that can handle off-trail bushwhacking and desert travel?

Seems to be a total apples to oranges comparison when looking at your pack vs this SWD Big Wild 70.

[J-L]

The Big Wild 70 looks awesome. Kind of seems like the pack that the Seek Outside Flight should have been (keep the floating hipbelt and ditch the tubular frame for flat stays).

How tall is that hipbelt, Ben? It seems to have a very elaborate shape to it.

[Daryl and Daryl]

“And your MYOG pack could handle 40 pounds no problem?” Pack can but I can’t.

 

“Does it have any pockets?” No, unless you want to count the front pack as a pocket..

“Durable fabric that can handle off-trail bushwhacking and desert travel?” It has handled (survived)  all the off-trail travel I have done.

“Seems to be a total apples to oranges comparison when looking at your pack vs this SWD Big Wild 70.” I agree.  But it meets my needs and saves me some weight.

[Spencer Lindenberg]

Do you just feel the need to chime in on the thread of any pack that weighs more than your MYOG one?

[Daryl and Daryl]

“Do you just feel the need to chime in on the thread of any pack that weighs more than your MYOG one?”

 

I think there is some of that going on with me.  In this case it seems to have turned into a thread drift.  Not my intention.  Sorry.

 

 

 

 

[Ben Kilbourne]

CHRIS L – Stay sleeves are external under the removable sit pad. Doubt it makes a difference for load transfer. I can’t remember off the top of my head why SWD went this route so I’ll have to ask.

John – It is pretty much the pack I thought the Flight was going to be. And also the pack that the HMG SW should be.

Belt is 5″ tall in the middle and tapers to a bit less at the ends. The shape is really really comfortable.

[Thomas H]

Ben, Dave,

Any updates on this pack?

I’d be happy to see more detail photos of the frame, hipbelt, etc as well as details like the thickness of hipbelt foam, type of foam, etc.

[Brad Rogers]

 

Here was a picture they posted on Facebook testing a new Ultra Weave 200 fabric that appears to be 200d woven UHMWPE (Dyneema/Spectra) face fabric laminated to a .5 mil PET layer similar to what X-Pac uses.  I think this is the same fabric Palante has used on some of their packs.   Here is a comparison between the Ultraweave 200 and 50d hybrid cuben like HMG uses:

Technical properties comparison between EPL200 Ultra 3.5oz, and DCH50 3.5oz (the most popular DCF style used for packs)
UHMWPE content by weight, as % of the laminated fabric:
DCH50: 20%
200 Ultra: 60%
Tear strength:
DCH50: 43 lbs. warp; 43 lbs. fill
200 Ultra: 103 lbs. warp; 133 lbs. fill
Taber abrasion test:
DCH50: 500 cycles
200 Ultra: 3800 cycles
Waterproof:
DCH50: yes
200 Ultra: yes

 

 

[David Chenault]

I’ve continued to use and love the pack.  With the one I have not being a production sample or anything I don’t want to be overly specific.  That said, the stay channels are external, but hidden well by the pad sleeve and the fabric which attaches the shoulder straps and load lifters.  It makes construction simpler, and allows for fairly straight forward seam sealing internally if you’re into that.

The specs of the Ultra fabric look super impressive.  I am eager to get my hands on it.

[Thomas H]

Thanks for the updates Brad and Dave. I am very interested in this design as well as your designs Dave, Nanutak’s, Rogue Panda Zoro and Seek Outside. Capable, but still lightweight packs.

Do you have any opinions yet about the frame to hip belt connection, or the hipbelt shape/design/foam itself?

[Ben Kilbourne]

Thomas H – The frame to hip belt connection on mine and Dave’s packs are probably not the final version of the connection so there’s probably no need to share that in detail. It works just fine, but they may be switching to some aluminum hardware there, so just stay tuned. It works great as-is and I’m sure will be better when in its final iteration.

Hipbelt shape is awesome. I think I posted a picture of that somewhere, maybe on my website. Yep looks like it’s at the bottom of this page: http://benkilbourne.com/blog/2021/2/7/superior-wilderness-designs-big-wild-70-prototype-first-thoughts The foam in mine is evazote and is awesome, but I don’t know if that will be the final choice. Belt is just under 1/2″ thick.

[Thomas H]

Ben, I can already see they changed the hardware and webbing placement on the two different versions of the belts that you have, so it is definitely going through some major iterations.

The shape of that hip belt is quite unique, its partially conical and partially more like a Seek Outside one…This is one area that I’m less tempted to experiment, not because it wouldn’t be valuable but because the materials to make a 6” tall, 32” wide belt are immense, especially making the conical shape, which kind of makes it into a 12” by 32” piece of fabric or foam at that point(although you can’t use some of the crescent shaped extra in the future). I’m very much so considering cutting the X21/cordura and 3D mesh in the conical shape, but only cutting the foam as more rectangular as to save some of it…although this may completely compromise the effectiveness as it will be pre-compressing.

[Thomas W]

FYI – https://www.swdbackpacks.com/product-page/big-wild-70l-ultra400

[Chris L]

Ultra 400 is pretty cool fabric. A bit off topic, but Rockywoods is selling it. I just finished a MYOG pack bag for a Seek Outside frame. It’s a touch lighter than Xpac X21RC and has a similar PET lining fabric, but (in theory) should be way more durable. It’s quite spendy but luckily I was able to get by with 4 linear feet.

[Thomas H]

Thanks for the update Thomas.

 

Chris L – Post some photos of that MYOG pack!

 

That Big Wild looks to have a few more changes since the prototypes. I’m pretty sure the hip belt is attached with what looks like a gated G-hook by Wetool. Hopefully we’ll get some more photos too see how this works. The description mentions that the belt is adjustable vertically  by 4”. I’m having difficulty imagining how they achieved this. Maybe there are multiple daisy chain points that G-hook attaches to?

[J-L]

I also don’t understand how the torso length adjusts by 4” on the Big Wild.

SWD has also made a big update to their Long Haul 50: https://www.swdbackpacks.com/product-page/2021-long-haul-50-ultra400-internal-frame

[Thomas H]

Interesting stuff. It looks like the only meaningful difference, besides the pack volume and front pocket, from the Big Wild is the hip belt attachment. The Big Wild is using two G-Hooks attaching directly from a hanging belt to the bottom of the 7075 stays and the Long Haul 50 has a lumbar sleeve. You can’t tell from the photos but I bet there is some sort of connection there as well either behind the lumbar pad or just outside of it. The Long Haul’s belt is quit a bit smaller too.

[J-L]

The hip belt attachment and hip belt shape is a huge difference though. The Big Wild 70 might also have a taller frame (for the same torso height), although I don’t see the new Long Haul’s frame height specified.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The EPL200 Ultra fabric does seem like the real deal. We’ve been testing it and been impressed. It weighs about 1/2 what VX21 does, while seemingly being far more durable (hard to say until we have a lot more testing done).

Using 70% woven UHMWPE for the outer fabric makes a lot more sense than hybrid DCF, where the little UHMWPE that there is, is on the inside and thus not the first line of defense for abrasion and tears.

[Brad Rogers]

I agree.  Hybrid DCF is WAY over-rated as a pack fabric

[Author]

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