Six moon designs going in a different direction??

[Myles B]

So, I received an email from six moon designs today, regarding their sale coming up, including their cuben fiber products, including their beloved skyscape x. They say it may be sometime before they produce cuben products again, and dang, i want a skyscape x. Should I buy one now, or wait to see what they come out with in the near future. Hmmmm? I love this company, and their products, just can’t decide to buy now, or wait for a future, super awesome, updated skyscape x, with lasers maybe,with an unknown availability. Oh backpacking gear decisions are so hard!!!

[d k]

Looks on their website like the X is sold out.

I don’t know if they are going in a different direction with their shelters; they certainly have with their packs (heavier, more sturdy), but so far the shelter line has stayed pretty much the same in terms of light weight.

[Simon Kenton]

Abela (cue gasp from BPL management) recently interviewed SMD

 

https://hikelighter.com/2016/11/26/interview-six-moon-designs/

 

They talk a little about about the Skyscape X, if I remember correctly.

[Ken Thompson]

Here’s the blurb from John’s interview, Ron’s words…

Few people understand the economics of Cuben Fiber pricing. Most of the shelters made are from small cottage gear people that only sale direct. As a result they don’t have the wholesale pricing hit to resolve. Those of us that do sell via a dealer network have had to significantly discount the price of the fabric to keep the shelters cost competitive.

If we sold our Cuben shelters at normal mark-ups, they would be considerably more expensive. As it is, both us and our dealers take a hit when dealing with Cuben.

We took the year off from Cuben production in order to re-think our Cuben strategy going forward. The recent purchase of Cubic Tech by DSM lead to price increases. Plus we needed to find alternative means of construction. For the most part, we’ve worked out the production issues. The question now is pricing. Plus we need to determine how much of an
investment we want to put out.

We’re still the only cottage manufacture that does production Cuben on an assembly line. However, reasonable production run of a number of shelters and models could easily run over $100,000 (one hundred thousand dollars.)”

Still the case a year after.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

When selling retail, it is not uncommon for manufactures to have to discount their products by 40% to value added resellers (VAR’s).  Retailers are looking at that level of discount in order for them to make a profit.  Most cottage industries can’t afford to that level of discount.  My 2 cents.

[Matthew / BPL]

Any thoughts on SMD’s construction quality? How does it fit in compared to MLD and ZPacks? I’m aware that SMD uses a #3 zipper but otherwise how’s their construction? I’m interested in a CF Deschutes and I’m curious if they bond all seams or sew and tape. Also, what are their reinforcements and guyout points like?

[Matt Swider]

Pretty sure Nick Gatel has a CF Deschutes, you could try to PM him regarding it.

[Myles B]

Thanks for the interview link. I understand what he is saying, that stuff is expensive, and difficult to work with. Maybe one of the reasons tarp tent doesn’t use it, if I remember right.who knows, maybe they will somehow be able to find a better way to make it work. Either way, it won’t keep me from purchasing their products. I have their duo, and it is one great shelter. I was just curious.

[Brad Rogers]

I have a 2010 SMD Swift pack and did own a Gatewood Cape and was not overly impressed with the quality – It is nowhere near as good as MLD.  I own a couple of pieces of Zpacks gear and it never looked “professional” either but has been functional.

SMD had(has) some great designs though.

 

[Jerry Adams]

There are recent threads with people’s experience Cuben doesn’t last very long

That’s hard to take when it’s so expensive

That silpoly that weighs 0.9 oz/yd2 and costs $7.25 per yard looks awfully good

[Jeffs Eleven]

But Jerry, that elastic sil makes you have to tighten your guy-lines!!  Red Flag Warning!! The Horror!!

LOL… nahhh  I Did use a polyester fly the other day on Hood and it was pretty cool, I have to admit…

[Brad Rogers]

It is true that some reports are that Cuben lasts 200 nights or so, but for most of us, that is quite a while.  I used to get out more, but now, I get out about 20 nights per year.  That would mean that my Cuben Duomid will last 10 years.  While I had multiple sil shelters mist in the past, I haven’t had that problem with cuben, so there are some pluses and minuses.

[Jerry Adams]

I get out maybe 80 nights a year, but half of them I don’t set up tarp, so that would be 5 years for me

That wouldn’t be too bad

[Kona]

I bought a SMD Skyscape Trekker back in 2014 at the pct kickoff and
was a bit disappointed with the quality. I had to send it back as the stitching came apart where the poles sat on the floor only after
a couple of uses. Did they fix and take care of the problem yes, but I don’t think a product should do that after such little use. Like
Brad said, quality wise not the greatest in my opinion. Could this have something to do with being made in China?

[Brad Rogers]

Both of my items were when SMD still made everything in the US.

[Kona]

Interesting very very interesting.

[Thomas Willard]

I had a Fusion 50 (2nd Gen) and was very impressed with the sewing and build quality.

[John S.]

If cuben was so expensive with less of a profit margin, why would zpacks completely abandon silnylon and be using nearly all cuben (and some dyneema)?

[ben .]

my 2015 skyscape trekker feels solid after 10-15 nights (though i had them seam seal it and that part was pretty sloppily done).

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

In terms of build quality, my experience is:

MLD > SMD > Zpacks, but SMD and Zpacks are pretty close.

[Turley]

“MLD > SMD > Zpacks, but SMD and Zpacks are pretty close.”

I’ve never used a SMD shelter so cannot comment in that arena…..but their packs in my opinion are much closer to that of MLD than ZPacks – there is considerable difference in build quality between MLD and ZPacks shelters.

[Chris S]

“If cuben was so expensive with less of a profit margin, why would zpacks completely abandon silnylon and be using nearly all cuben (and some dyneema)?”

Because zpacks isn’t selling via a dealer network like SMD does. There’s enough profit margin with direct sales, but not when you have to sell to dealers at wholesale pricing.

[Matthew / BPL]

It sounds like the dealer network is a problem for SMD. Maybe they should only go direct on the cuben stuff.

[Jerry Adams]

if you only sell direct you don’t sell so many units?

so for a company to get bigger they have to have dealers?

there’s room for different business models

[Chris S]

There’s clearly a market to produce non-cuben products.

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