Six moon designs going in a different direction??

[Myles B]

That is what I was thinking, they are spending too much on cuben. I haven’t had any problem with my sil shelters, aside from having to tighten them up, but that is not so bad at all. I had an altaplex. It was a great shelter, but the learning curve with the cuben killed me. I preferred setting up my sil, and just tightening it up. Bit, the skyscape x is so enticing, with the space you get for weight. I assume everyone has different opinions with their purchased products. But, mine from smd has so far, been great. Maybe they can find a way to do it like zpacks, and get it direct.

[Nick Gatel]

Jon Fong said,

When selling retail, it is not uncommon for manufactures to have to discount their products by 40% to value added resellers (VAR’s).  Retailers are looking at that level of discount in order for them to make a profit.  Most cottage industries can’t afford to that level of discount.

Bingo! For example, to get a 40% gross margin on a product, if a company buys something for $100, they have to sell it for $167 to realize a 40% gross profit margin. 40% gross margin is pretty standard for retailers in almost any industry, other than big ticket items like a new car. Don’t confuse gross profit with net profit, if you assume a $67 gross profit is excessive on an item that costs the retailer $100.

[Nick Gatel]

Any thoughts on SMD’s construction quality? How does it fit in compared to MLD and ZPacks? I’m aware that SMD uses a #3 zipper but otherwise how’s their construction? I’m interested in a CF Deschutes and I’m curious if they bond all seams or sew and tape. Also, what are their reinforcements and guyout points like?

I have never seen a MLD or SMD pack, so I can’t comment on those. I have a MLD Trailstar and a MLD silnylon poncho/tarp; and a SMD Wild Oasis and a Deschutes CF. In my opinion the construction of MLD and SMD are on par with each other. I have a few early zPacks items, which are solidly made, but the stitching and such is not as good as MLD or SMD. However, I bought an early zPacks quilt about 5 years ago and the quality of the sewing showed a marked improvement. I haven’t bought anything from zPacks in a long time (other than some CF sacks and other small items), but I suspect their quality has improved as they have grown.

Regarding the construction of the Deschutes, a couple years ago Ron Moak sent me this email:

The Deschutes CF is constructed from several pieces of Cuben material and all of the seams on the Deschutes are sewn first then tapped. The sewn seam allowance is not seen as it is buried under a wide 1.5′ piece of seam tape. This protects the stitching and makes for a very clean seam.

SMD also uses their own custom seam tapes and glue. The normal transfer tapes used on Cuben can peel under the right conditions. However, SMD wet tape bonds more completely to the Cuben when it dries. The tapping also waterproofs the seams.

Here is an initial impression from my blog, which I wrote a couple years ago. I haven’t bothered to write an actual review, because… well… backpacking gear has become boring for me. That being said, it has been my go-to shelter the past couple of years and has been a stellar performer. Of course Cuben’s weak point is abrasion and I have read that people wear out their Cuben shelters simply from repeated stuffing in and out of small stuff sacks. My Cuben shelters are only used when the weather is bad and otherwise stay in my pack, normally without a stuff sack. For really bad weather the Deschutes is somewhat small and I bring a Trailstar or Scarp 1 for those kinds of crappy winter weather trips.

[Jerry Adams]

“people wear out their Cuben shelters simply from repeated stuffing in and out of small stuff sacks”

maybe have bigger stuff sack and treat it carefully

[Matthew / BPL]

tight stuff sacks suck

[Brad Rogers]

A large slippery silnylon stuff sack is probably best for cubes shelters.  Cuben stuff sacks seem more abrasive to me.

[Author]

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