Seek Outside Unaweep or Revolution

I’ve only used Osprey, GoLite and MLD packs  The SO Divide has ended my anxiety regarding trade offs in pack “mobility vs firepower”. Sure I can make 30 pounds work in a lightly framed pack like an MLD Exodus es.but for two more pounds I have confidence knowing I can carry a lot more water, food and occasional luxieries more comfortably, it’s remarkable feeling the shoulder freedom the SO frame provides.

I have a question regarding the Unaweep. As I mentioned back in October, I will be getting either the Unaweep 6300 or Revolution Fortress 6300. I remember someone making a comment on another website about the Unaweep only having one horizontal stay versus two stays on the Revolution Fortress.

Is that true?

I guess the only reason I was considering the Revolution platform was for ease of changing bags. Let’s say I decided I wanted to buy a cuben-fiber bag, or a different bag, from another vendor. The Revolution platform would allow for that. Practically speaking, I’ll probably buy the 6300 bag and never change it out but allowing for that option sways my decision a hair toward the Revolution platform.

Given the costs we are prone to overthink the issue.  Basically, go for what you feel is right.  A longer answer is, get what fits your actual, rather than perceived, needs.  I have an old style revo and I am happy.  I swap bags and use the frame hauling capacity quite a lot, so my actual needs are met.  If you need that, then get that.  If you just need a big backpack that can carry backpacking loads well, maybe you might just need the Unaweep — it would be plenty and might be cheaper.  In any case, just get what you want.  Both platforms work.  Justifying the cost to yourself is a waste of time.

PS no idea about the cross stay.

The Unaweep will ship with one cross stay.  The Revolution ships with two.

The dry bag hauling capability of the Revolution is nice in theory, but I rarely if ever use it.  I do like the Revolution for hauling game or meat, and for work, tool, or trail related duties.

I have an older Revolution right now with a rectangular trash can zip tied to it.  I can throw a pick, axe, mattock, even a chainsaw in there and go.

“I guess the only reason I was considering the Revolution platform was for ease of changing bags.”

Actually, SO sells a “conversion kit” that can make a Unaweep into a Revolution — or you can make one yourself (I did!).

I may try working on a new “converter” this year that would have those incomparable SO waterbottle pockets permanently mounted on it. That would enable me to use ANY dry bag interchangeably, without losing my get-your-water-all-by-yourself options.

Having SO’s extra load capacity is a blessing in the dry SW desert, where more complex trips often include water caching and/or dry camping.

I am fascinated to hear more about your “converter”. Do tell, please.

I ended up choosing the Revolution platform over the Integrated. The tradeoff was 2.5 ounces and will enable me to completely remove the Fortress bag and be a dedicated wood hauler back to my site when needed. No doubt I will find other chores for it as well.

In the end, it is a light pack with a gargantuan capacity (correct me if I’m wrong but over 120L including Talon and top lid). That’s coming from someone who uses an 8.6oz  Zpacks Arc Blast on overnights during the summer.

The Revolution is very comfortable and I am hopeful it will carry any weight like a dream. I’ll have it out for it’s maiden voyage in a few weeks.

I re-read through this thread, and haven’t changed my view. I have, however, amended my view. While I’m still convinced the little bachelor buckles are a mistake for pack access, I think the greatest downfall of the new design is not the bachelor buckles, it’s the side pull hipblet. While not ideal, the buckles can be replaced/modified, the antiquated belt cannot. A side-pull belt is not nearly as serviceable with serious weight as a forward pull. That is a fact.

it’s a real shame the direction SO has taken with what could have been superb packs.

@bradmacmt while MYOG is not for everyone, swapping buckles is nothing but trivial.  One can ge some buckles (sea to summit makes with a removable pin for maximum strength) and be done with it.

The hipbelt pull does not make any difference in practice — most likely because of how the belt is designed.  Personal empirical difference with both belts. Yet I plan to put ladderlocks, or something like that, in the molle webbing so rerout the pulling mechanism.  I assume it will be a 5 minutes job.  I will do it for this reason:  as things are the belt straps need to be tucked away before I take a pee, and I find that silly enough I will forward pull the belt to make the straps hang at the sides of the body.  Admittedly not an urgent job.

Please note that what I am saying is NOT ‘get a SO pack’ and do these mods.  Do whatever.  Your time, your choices, your packs.

What I am saying is, none of your criticisms cannot be sorted with some off the shelf hardware and a 10 minutes time investment.  If people want a SO pack and they are stumped by suck trivial problems I am left wondering whether they should be allowed out of the door to start with.

If the problem is the philosophical ‘SO does not not make a pack that fits my exact needs and I am annoyed by that’, well, we are all adults here, right?

As I clearly said, the buckles can be modified. Unless I’m missing something, please show me how belt can be changed to forward pull.

Whats the most weight you’ve carried in it?

1. the simplest way to see it is to put a D ring in the molle, pass the webbing in side pull, with the locking at the buckle (the side pull you are thinking of is locked at the pull and has no locking at the buckle — same effect. Potato – potato).
2. 60 kilos of books from my old office to the new one (books are heavy — a personal best in stupidity in retrospect) over 3 km uphill.  Rest assured my concerns then were — why am I such an idiot?  why I did this to myself?  what am I trying to prove?  On broken terrain I would have probably died under that load.  As I said, a record in utter stupidity.  On other news, the belt was fine.

Brad…now that I have the Revolution and use the gatekeepers, I really like them. I bought a dozen extra and will have them with me in case one breaks. They are not fragile at all. I also bought 4 bachelor buckles which are metal (aluminum?), rock solid, and could also be used in a pinch.

Forward pull would be preferred but I was used to side pull with my McHale. I believe you could take a carabiner attached to each side of the belt, run the strap through that, and easily create a forward pull.

Brad, why did you come back to this thread to reiterate your opinion based on a pack you haven’t actually used? Shallow punditry is not useful to anyone.

I have the forward pull belt on my Revolution, and a friend has the updated one. We both packed elk the same 8 miles at the same time. His pack didn’t fall off his back and he didn’t have any problems getting the belt tight. There just isn’t a problem.

@wiiawiwb – my “converter” is a MYOG version of THIS Seek Outside product, which converts ANY of their frame systems to a Revolution format. It’s not outrageously priced, but I made my own – because I can!

I’m planning to make a new one with the *incomparable* SO pockets already attached, so that I can use *any* type of dry bag as my pack. Instant pack size customization, without losing the water bottle pockets (can’t wait).

Valerie….I’m a bit confused. If you are going to attach the SO pocket to a bag, then you would need an SO pocket(s) for every bag you planned on using…correct? Isn’t it easier to figure a way to use daisy chains, or some other lashing mechanism, to attach SO pockets so one pocket can be relocated from bag to bag?

Wiiawiwb – No, I’m planning to make a new Revolution converter panel that has pockets permanently attached to the sides. Theirs isn’t made like that – each bag you use with their panel has to have the pockets (if you want them).  I want the versatility of permanently attached pockets, and I think I can design a panel with pockets that will work. That way, the pockets will always be there, and I can use any UL drybag of any size that I have on hand.

A design like the one I’m planning will be neater and lighter than a lashing system (although that would work for anyone who doesn’t want to design/sew their own panel!).

I’ve already sewn my own Revolution packbag, but I’d like more sizes. Rather than sew a different sized pack with the pockets (which is fairly intricate), I’d prefer to make a new Revolution panel with permanent pockets, and then just change the drybag as needed, using the same MYOG talon and backpanel for every iteration.

Why not just attach pockets (via a sleeve) to one of the side compression straps? (I know nothing of the Revolution panel so I’m probably talking out of my fourth point of contact here….)

Valerie…gotcha. Great idea. That provides the greatest amount of flexibility of pack bags. You could use any other manufacturer’s bag.

Have you experimented with making dyneema or other super-light bags for your Revolution?

Wiiawiwb – Actually, my Seek Outside bag was originally a Divide (original version)…but several things about the original SO bag drove me crazy on the trail. [Grrrrr, EVERY time I took off the pack for a break, those d*mned bachelor buckles would unhook themselves. So frustrating.]

So I completely removed the Divide bag, and designed/sewed a “converter” (similar to SO’s one) to transform the basic SO suspension into a Revolution-like animal.  Then I sewed a new packbag (with SO-type pockets) to sit in my “Revolution”.  Much better. But now I’m wanting even more flexibility!

So version 3 will be a re-designed “Revolution” panel with pockets permanently attached, and then, yes, I can experiment with a wider range of UL fabrics for the dry bag itself. A simple DCF drybag might be ideal (low weight), and because it’s sandwiched between the frame panel and the talon, durability would no longer be a concern. For that matter, a cheap, UL silnylon drybag would be a good option, too!

Doug — the reason I want the pockets permanently attached to the frame in their “normal” place is the incredible “reachability” of the SO pocket design. It’s the only pack I’ve ever used that lets me reach my own bottles without dislocating my old and degenerated shoulders! If the bottle pockets were attached via the compression straps, I’d have to remove my pack to get at my water. (And I hated platys, so I’m not going back to those.)

Any chances of pics of panel/bags?

Valerie, FWIW the new gatekeepers are vastly superior to the old bachelor buckles.  They stay put very well.

I’ll add a bit of thought to your DIYing….  I had an idea several years ago of a panel with triangular shaped wings off the sides that integrated with the compression and contained bottle pockets.  That would allow the drybag use you mention.  Rock abrasion may dictate further protection around the bottom of the drybag, so functionally the lower 1/3 rd of a packbag shape with cinchcord closure would come in handy.

There are problems with this sort of design.  It becomes very “fiddly” to get to everything whereas a packbag is simple, secure, and easy.  Plus any time you double use fabric (for the wings, and for the drybag) you’re increasing weight, which requires yet further reductions in durability of fabrics to counterbalance the weight.

I’ll be interested to see what you come up with.

Very clever, both of you.

I have to admit that I was skeptical of the gatekeepers but now that I have the Revolution Fortress I love them. Featherweight, replaceable in the field, and they have done everything I’ve asked of them. I bought two sets of bachelor buckles but don’t see a need to use them. I’ll carry them along as a extra layer of security.

Valerie, any chance you can share the pattern or measurements to your Revolution frame panel? What I’m interested in is how you constructed the back panel. I have built a couple of bags for my SO Unweep but the back panel is far from optimal.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Well, I’ve been dragging my feet on the new frame panel… I’ve got a couple of preliminary sketches on how the water bottle pockets would attach, but I’m not 100% confident that I’m onto the “perfect” set-up.  My dining table is a mess with newspaper (for making patterns) and X-Pac all laid out, and not enough motivation to get started. Sigh. I’ll get there.

I can’t find the newspaper pattern I made last year, so I guess I’ll be starting from scratch again. No biggie.  Last time I designed the panel to be quickly removable with velcro tabs. Now I’m wondering “why”, since it doesn’t need to be removed very often.

I’ve included photos below. Since I’ve lost my old pattern (what DO I do with these things?), I can’t share it.  But here’s how I made it — I just followed the basic shape of my Divide’s backpanel, including where to attach hardware, then I extended a flap coming out of the bottom (to loop around under the bottom of the frame and continue up the front of the pack to connect to my “Talon”. I also made “tabs” that protruded around the metal frame and attached with velcro (to hold the whole thing in place). This time, I think I’ll just run the frame up through some 2″ webbing to hold it to the backpanel. Why complicate things (which I did — removable compression straps? Why?)?

All the measurements (like where to put the foam-padded back cushion, the dimensions of the water bottle pockets) were taken from my Divide packbag.  I also recommend taking a close look at SO’s own Revolution converter panel — that’ll give you ideas!

It worked fine (I took it on a ~250mi section of the PCT, and had no problems), but I just want to refine it, and figure out how to add permanent pockets.