Seek Outside Unaweep or Revolution

[BPLwiia]

I’ve gone to their website and watched YT videos. I must confess…I’m not getting what the attraction is to these packs.

They’re external-framed, don’t have a lid (unless you want to spend more), have essentially one big compartment, and not a lot of lashing points (that i could see). It seems everything is “a la carte”. Yes, you can add a lumbar pad ($35), an external pouch (Talon) for $130, horizontal cross stays $15, and more.

The cost starts to add up to the point where it may more sense to go with a true custom McHale Ultra Light pack.

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see what you’re getting from the Unaweep or Revolution for the money spent.  I’m open to change my mind if I’ve misjudged these packs.

[Richie S]

Well the offer high comfort weight carrying in a lightweight form.

I’m not sure you have done your math right here.

The do come with a talon, the $130 is for a detachable daypack talon. The lumbar pad I may well not be necessary for you as their belt is very comfortable already. The horizonatal cross stay is included as well I think, but can be purchased to add to older packs.

[Brad Rogers]

I use my Unaweep with no Talon, lid, lumbar pad, or cross stay it is by far the most comfortable load hauler I have ever used.

I have a McHale LBP36 as well and though the McHale is extremely well thought out and has the highest build quality of any pack I have ever owned, I think the Unaweep is more comfortable.

[Tipi Walter]

I’m right on the edge of getting a Seek Outside pack called the Brooks as I’m looking for a load hauler to replace my Mystery Ranch pack called the G7000.  Many MR pack hipbelts use hard plastic stiffeners which have failed me when this plastic digs into my hip flesh.

I emailed a pic of my current MR pack setup to SO and asked for their recommendations for gear placement on the Brooks.  So far no reply.

As far as I can tell the lumbar pad is highly recommended—and the optional extra cross stay might have to be purchased if pack items jab you in the back—there is no framesheet, just the frame and some midlevel padding.

And yes, no top lid.  And it’s not the Talon which would make a possible lid option but the Merlin, at $130.  The Talon is a longer flatter panel to sandwich in larger items and wouldn’t make for a decent lid.

[BPLwiia]

I’ve got a McHale myself and it can carry a ton of weight. Double buckle and designed to carry weight easily on your hip. I mention this only because I have used McHale packs for 20 years.

That said, I would enjoy a pack, maybe an OS, that is lighter and would carry less weight but be equally as functional. I view, maybe incorrectly, the OS as I single bag on an external frame. Spartan and barely utilitarian without add on pouches or accessories bags. So, I’d want a lid, at a minimum and maybe other separate pouches or bags.

In the past, when someone asked about McHale packs, I was quick to run to the nearest rooftop and sing their accolades with joy. I’m not feeling the spark, the love, of these OS packs

 

[BCap]

I have the divide.  I didn’t do any add-ons.  I’ve not needed any lash points — everything fits inside.  I’ve gotten >2000 miles out of it without much wear.  I have carried in excess of 10 liters of water in addition to a normal backpacking load.  It fits a garcia bear can inside horizontally.  I’m completely happy with my purchase.

 

[BPLwiia]

What is the major difference(s) between the Unaweep and the Revolution Fortress? Why wold you choose one versus the other?

[Andre Buhot]

The Unaweep is a self contained pack the Revolution is a pack frame and harness that you can easily swap the size of pack bag on. Or carry anything you can attach to the pack frame.

I use a standard talon which will easily hold anything I otherwise would use a pack lid for.

For work I regularly start the day with  60lbs in my Unaweep most of that being extra water for the kids/group.  I would love to have the luxury of reliable frequent water sources😃

[Brad Rogers]

The SO frame/suspension is by far the best I have tried and I tested the HMG Porter, Exped Lightning 60, Osprey Aether 60, and my McHale LBP36(which admittedly is a much smaller pack).

The pack bags are spartan but that is the intent and the competition (HMG Porter, Exped Lightning, Cilo Gear Worksak, etc.).  If you want lots of pockets, etc it might not be the pack for you.  I like a pack with one main compartment, two water bottle pockets, and hipbelt pockets, but everyone is different.

The Unaweep and Divide bags can easily be swapped, but the frame can not be used without a bag.  The Revolution frame can be used without a bag to haul big game out, etc.  The Divide (and the Unaweep to a point) are the better bags for backpacking IMO.

[BPLwiia]

I thought I read a their website  that all packs have the same suspension system. So the Unaweep, Brooks, Broadwing, and Revolution all have the same Revolution frame?

I’m starting to come around to this pack!

 

 

[Tipi Walter]

I believe they sell the Revolution frame as a hunting specific frame, versus the Brooks/Divide as a backpacking frame.  Both frames I believe are the same, with the revolution option being to allow hunting configs for carrying carcasses and meat etc.  Same shoulder harness, same hipbelt, same back panels etc.

But the Brooks pack bag will not attach to the revolution, my understanding.

[Andre Buhot]

The Brooks pack is the Unaweep equivalent,  the Broadwing is similar but for the Revolution.  all using the same frame

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

All packs use the same suspension ( frame, harness, and belt). The revolution is really a panel that allows the suspension to connect without a bag, and then “breakaway bags” can be used.

The Divide, Unaweep, Exposure, Gila, Brooks  the connection is integrated into the pack bag meaning no “breakaway bag” function.

TipiWalter, is we have not responded please check your spam . Sometimes our ticketing gets stuck in people’s spam folders. Our CS should respond to every serious / non spammy inquiry.

BTW, I know I’m vested in the product, but I really do not think there is any better big load carry pack than the brooks. I’ve used it most of Sept, and it goes from a small pack to big one so easy. Sure , you can save a few ounces with a different setup.

[bradmacmt]

Kevin, I was super disappointed when I received my Unaweep last week. You’ve made significant hardwear/fastener changes, but not reflected those changes on your website. Had I known I would not have ordered the pack.

What I received was a pack that’s not usable for me so sent it back. Switching from a forward-pull setup on the hipbelt to a side pull was a bad enough step backwards, but switching from fastex QR buckles to those little, difficult to maipulate “mini biners” that require being threaded through a loop to access the pack’s interior is unbelievable.

Imagine it’s -10F elk hunting at 8,000′. It’s snowing. You have gloves on. It’s dark and your’e operating with a headlamp. Those little “cli[ps” are going to be a massive zero. Hell, they’re a zero working with them in a lit, heated home interior.

I’ve held off for several years ordering a Unaweep for my highcountry hunting pack. When I saw you’d finally made a lumbar option available I was thrilled. I need that extra lumbar support for my curvy back. It’s a total bummer you’ve made the changes you have. In NO way is your “new” side pull hipbelt setup the equal of a front pull when it comes to securing an 80 or 100lb load on one’s hips. I’ve used both systems packing out elk, and the forward pull ALWAYS trumps the side pull. It’s simple physical mechanics. I believe I understand why you went to the double pull like McHale, but you’d have done better to copy ULA’s belt pull which addresses the issue perfectly and flat-out works.

I asked one of your representatives if SO would build me a Unaweep like what is pictured on the website (apparently those are last year’s models shown on the site), and was flatly turned down. I even offered to pay an extra premium $ to get it. That’s how much I’d like one of your packs, as I think the basic design is superb. Apparently I’ve mistakenly assumed you were more a custom “cottage” co., rather than a box store co.

It’s really, really disappointing the direction you’ve taken the packs…

 

 

[Doug G]

If you live on the west coast go to Portland and try one on with 50 lbs of sand.   Then put the same sand in a HMG 4400.  Then you’ll know why people love these packs.

These guys specialize in load haulers for hunting.   The Revolution is a system where the frame is independent of the bag – you can stuff a game bag behind the bag if you want, or use the frame as a independent load hauler.   The Divide / Unaweep / Brooks you can’t do this with.  You have to use the pack bag with the frame.   These packs are more aligned to hiking, although they have the same features for load hauling.   The Brooks is a new pack and I don’t have any exposure to it.  Seems pretty ingenious as far as how the space converts at first glance – but if 4500 ci is enough, then the Divide is lighter and a really great pack.

I own the Divide and my friend owns the Unaweep.  The Unaweep is pretty sweet how it compresses easily for any size load.   The frame extenders are money too.   My friend is 6’4′ and these keep the load where it should be.  There are plenty of lash points on the Divide.  2 compression straps on each side, buckles on the outside of the mesh pocket, straps and buckles on the bottom, and your cinch Y strap on the top.   The horizontal cross stay you mention comes with it.  It is perfect for keeping an awkward load off your back. I have carried 75lbs in mine; although capacity wise that pushing it.

As far as it having add ons…  Their pack as is competes with the features of most lightweight packs (+ some).   I don’t mind paying more if I want a lid, or other accessories.  For the price, I was happy with what I got.  It’s in line with other similar packs.

This pack carries weight better than any other pack I have owned.  Maybe it doesn’t work the same for everyone.  I called them when making my purchase and they were extremely helpful.  If you don’t get an answer to your email, pick up the phone.   I wouldn’t go back.  I don’t own a McHale, so can’t comment there.   I do think the McHale will be a lot more money than you think for the same capacity and capability.   Maybe someone who has one can comment.   Obviously those are sweet packs too.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Hi Brad ,

Sorry for your disappointment. Most of those changes had been notified to customers in early July, just some of the photos have not been updated and some have been.

Most feel the GK are an improvement in function and capability. No buckles are easy at 10 below.  They can give up a little durability , but are easy to change out vs sewn in buckles. They also allow far more effective compression system in most cases. Most customers seem to love them.  If you don’t it’s easy to add our Bachelor buckles in place of them or do a gatekeeper 3/4 QR combo.

The belt change, you should have received a quad buckle as well so you can run a single. It is possible to do a forward pull with it and it will be much more effective as well by using something like a 1 inch Bachelor buckle or similar,  although we don’t feel the forward pull is needed. The dual 1 inch is a much easier to repair more survivable system and is better at alleviating hot spots in users, and better at fitting a large amount of body types. Yes, I know some prefer the forward pull single for usability , but most advantages for a broader range of people and conditions is the dual one inch.

 

Once again, sorry for your disappointment. If you want, contact me privately on 24Hr, and I have a few lightly used belts and older pack bags I need to find a home for. Perhaps those will work. I think a couple have lumbar setup but I’ll have to look.

 

Thanks

 

[BPLwiia]

I am looking at the Unaweep myself. I agree with Brad and would prefer the buckles to the GK.

Can the GK be removed and belt buckles (you sell at your website as an accessory)  swapped in their place by me without any sewing/sticking involved or does require a factory change?

[Tipi Walter]

Brad A—please check out this video and tell me if this is the kind of hipbelt you don’t like—the buckles/straps look like all the packs I have used—get one buckle tight to one side and pull the other to cinch??  Is this called side pull?  I’m definitely okay with side pull.

Gatekeepers versus quick release?  I’ve never used gatekeepers but totally understand where you are coming from.  I do alot of winter butt cold backpacking and see a huge problem with these attachment buckles vs quick release.  And no, at -10F QR DOES WORK and has never presented a problem for me.  Gatekeepers?  Even in the video the guy has a little problem releasing them.  Now imagine doing about 10 releases at Ten Below.  More to ponder.

[Tipi Walter]

Btw, these slotted QR buckles from Kifaru could possibly work to ditch the gatekeepers and replace with quick release . . . maybe.  But then, why bother for something expensive and brand new??  The boys at Seek Outside should make it like you want it.

[Tipi Walter]

Oh and Kevin—I did get your email and thanks for the quick response.  I think it would be neat if you could update your pack/frame pics as soon as possible, otherwise people purchase items from what they see on your webpage—even though some have been discontinued.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

thanks TipiWalter

We have been updating them pretty much as fast as we can. New or updated photos are up almost daily.

Several repair style buckles will work. Honestly, for many of the designs, I don’t see the buckles being undone a lot. I’ve used to brooks a lot the last few weeks and only really messed with them when I was going from small day to backpacking mode. Other times they were tightened and loosened and it was about it. But yes, several repair type options exist that will work, if you know exactly how you want to use the compression.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Richie S]

it would seem to be an easy fix to change out any frequently used ones and only cost a couple $.

[Nathan Coleman]

Dual Buckle – two big advantages

• Completely user replaceable / more survivable.  On previous belt if the 1.5″ ladderlock broke, it’s a replacement belt.  Now you just need a 1″ buckle.  Carry an extra on unsupported expeditions.
• Second, it allows users to change tension from top to bottom of belt.  From customer feedback this is a really useful feature, making the pack more comfortable to more people.

Loss of the forward pull is a tradeoff.  There are ways to mitigate, keeping buckles to one side, tightening technique (pinky toward buckle, index finger toward tag end, forearm braced on hip, easy to tighten even with heavy loads), also a workaround with bachelor buckles hooked on PALS webbing that does create a forward pull.

We also send out the belts with a 4 to 1 quad buckle that takes the four straps down to one buckle.

Gatekeepers –

• HUGE advantage in flexibility
  • Web loops can be sewn into most any seam on a packbag and a gatekeeper strap clipped in.  Remove it if you don’t need it.
  • You can literally run a pack with no compression straps, or two dozen.
  • Need two 6 foot long compression straps?  Totally doable with gatekeepers.
• Much cleaner packbags.  With SR you have to have a mating buckle sewn in anywhere you want to connect compression.  This leaves orphaned buckles flopping around everywhere.
• Lighter weight
• User replaceable
• Stay in place much better than bachelor buckles.
• They have a longer travel distance, meaning tighter compression.

They are less durable and can be broken easier than SR, usually if you forget to close the gate and then overtighten.  You can also probably carry a dozen extras with you for the weight savings and replace them in the field.  Again, tradeoffs.

After actually using them, they’re slightly slower than SR, but you get used to it.  Loosen the strap a bit, press to pop the gate, out, back in.  No sweat.

Anyway, longwinded, but that’s the reasoning behind the changes.

[bradmacmt]

Sorry for your disappointment. Most of those changes had been notified to customers in early July, just some of the photos have not been updated and some have been.

I couldn’t find that information anywhere on the site when I ordered, and the pictures were definitely not updated. Not sure how you “notify” customers, I’m not on any email list of Seek Outside. I’m super busy, and don’t keep up with everyone’s Co.

Most feel the GK are an improvement in function and capability. No buckles are easy at 10 below. They can give up a little durability , but are easy to change out vs sewn in buckles. They also allow far more effective compression system in most cases. Most customers seem to love them. If you don’t it’s easy to add our Bachelor buckles in place of them or do a gatekeeper 3/4 QR combo.

My sense of the backpack/hunting world is that many haven’t been at it long enough to have formed solid preferences. Changing the Gatekeeper’s to “Bachelor Buckles” is still a compromise.  The Bachelors lack the strength and integrity of a full, sewn-in buckle. No thanks. Also, I’ll heartily disagree with you that “no buckles are easy at 10 below”. I’ve used traditional Fastex buckles since they came out in the early 80’s, often below zero, including my single coldest trip at -30F. Never a problem. They’re easy to manipulate, even with mittens. But I guarantee the little “Gatekeeprs” are going to be a PIA continually. They were a PIA loading the pack up in the house, how could it be otherwise?

The belt change, you should have received a quad buckle as well so you can run a single. It is possible to do a forward pull with it and it will be much more effective as well by using something like a 1 inch Bachelor buckle or similar, although we don’t feel the forward pull is needed. The dual 1 inch is a much easier to repair more survivable system and is better at alleviating hot spots in users, and better at fitting a large amount of body types. Yes, I know some prefer the forward pull single for usability , but most advantages for a broader range of people and conditions is the dual one inch.

Again, in my experience I absolutely find a “pull forward” arrangement easier to work with a substantial load. Actually any load. When I first tried the pull forward belt on, I believe a circa 2001 Osprey, it was a Eureka Moment… I couldn’t believe anything so simple had eluded pack makers for so long. Add very slightly torn rotators that most active folks my age have (age 56, both my shoulders), and it becomes a significant problem. I have zero faith in any bachelor arrangement with real weight/pressure. It’s not made for this application. Yes, I did receive the single “quad”, but again it’s a “pull sideways” affair. It’s not a single point pull that is the issue, it’s the side-pull. Frankly, I don’t know any pack maker, having tried a pull forward system that would go back to the 1960’s pull-sideways belt system. I’m confident you could have found a design path around that issue that would meet your other needs/ideas.

Once again, sorry for your disappointment. If you want, contact me privately on 24Hr, and I have a few lightly used belts and older pack bags I need to find a home for. Perhaps those will work. I think a couple have lumbar setup but I’ll have to look.

You’re a nice man Kevin. And Andrew whom I talked with on the phone when I ordered couldn’t have been more helpful.

I’ve been backpacking for 43 years.  I’ve got a somewhat decent handle on what works in all-seasons. And I can say with complete confidence you’re on the wrong track with your little “gatekeepers.” They might impress 20-somethings with skinny jeans looking to shave another ounce, but not me. They WILL be an issue over time, primarily for the top entry.

I did want to do this privately offline, but you hadn’t logged into 24hr since August 1, and you had no personal contact info, so when I saw your response here I jumped in.

Everyone is a critic. I get it. But thanks for taking the time to listen. My hope for your Co. is you prosper and succeed. I’d like to play a part in making that happen, and when you introduced a lumbar I was finally ready to jump in. Unfortunately I hit rocks when I did.

[bradmacmt]

Walter, yes the hipblet and gatekeeprs in that video is what I’m referring to.

Photos from the pack I received and the same pack off SO’s website:

Gatekeepers:

“New” hipblet:

 

Old belt, and its forward pull design:

Fastex buckles:

 

[Author]

Posts