Seek Outside Unaweep or Revolution

[Tipi Walter]

There are scant real world tests of these packs, especially with significant weight—or long duration.  Like some guy using one for a year in all conditions on expedition type trips with around 75 lbs of weight.

On Seek Outside’s own website they have a review by a guy named Tomas with a Unaweep 4800 used on a 14 day trip in Sweden.  He says in part—

“Above 25kgs I found that I got pain in my neck and shoulder muscles.   . . . . after 20 kms the shoulders and hips got sore and tired.”

“The adjustable connections of the hip belt to the frame could be better designed. The strap and the metal ring through the straps have gotten some beating and show too much wear and tear after just 14days of usage. Most every time you put the pack down, they get a beating.”

“I am a bit worried about the same straps. The ones you pull to move the weight forward. The thread in the seams is starting to come to light. I doubt they would hold with 50kgs of weight.”

“It’s probably designed to carry heavy loads into a camp in the wilderness, and not necessarily a pack you do longer mountain walks with.”

 

 

 

[Curt Peterson]

“I am still in absolute shock anyone could remotely consider the little “gatekeepers” with their difficult to thread attachment even remotely the equivalent of a simple  fastex buckle…”

Interesting how we’re all different on things. One of the only things I didn’t care for on my Unaweep was the buckles. Obviously they’re plenty strong, but they limited compression. Particularly when out of camp looking for critters with a bow, I wanted my pack essentially flat and empty. Fastex didn’t allow that. I first swapped out all the buckles with what they now call Bachelor Buckles. I found them elsewhere, but they’re the same thing. BIG improvement in compression, but less secure – especially with any slack in the straps. They’re metal, by the way. I think there was a comment about durability. If that’s a concern, they’re the most durable by far. I imagine you could drive over them with your truck and they’d be fine. If durability is your thing, they’re the best choice.

Looking for something that was as compressible as the the Bachelors but more secure, I poached a couple unique little ‘biner buckles off of a bow carrier I had from another pack maker. They were perfect. Finding them was nearly impossible, however. Multiple calls to customer service of a couple companies found me a dozen. Took weeks. They worked perfectly. Lighter. Super compressible. Plenty strong. A few months later I see them show up on SO’s site called Gate Keepers. Perfect! Only thing I would have changed is to have had them available when I first got my pack.

Incidentally, I’ve never had an issue connecting/disconnecting them. Once your pack is set up you don’t really need to anyway. Plus, carrying even something ridiculous like half a dozen as spares you’ll still end up lighter than with the Fastex buckles. Zero sewing required. Try that with a broken Fastex. I carry 2 extra and have never touched them.

 

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

TipiWalter

We publish about every review as is, however in the aforementioned review, the response is not common. Since the user is a long way away , there is not really anyway for us to inspect / review or even make sure it is setup correctly.

We have had several users use them long term humping heavy loads without issue on remote packrafting trips or on remote hunting trips, several with far more weight. I think if you dig around on our facebook or adventures page you will find someone who did 130 ish lbs 30 KM .. certainly not a little hump back to camp.

As for reliability of components mentioned Grommet and Webbing .. we use a belt connection method that has been used for a long time. We use the best grommets available and quality webbing. The straps at the load lifter, I have not seen an issue on any production packs.

Regarding GK .. curt .. ya you can carry several extra if needed for the weight of a traditional buckle. Personally, I’m a big fan of them. I carry an extra strap or two just in case I need extra compression somewhere, but I have not needed them yet.

 

 

[Brad Rogers]

I used an Unaweep 4800 without a Talon on a 11 day backpack and packrafting trip in Brooks Range Alaska in 2015 and a 14 day trip in South-Central Alaska in 2017.  I carried 50# starting weight and the pack carried like a dream.

I haven’t tested the pack with more weight and I can’t imagine needing to carry more weight as I will never be able to do a longer trip (wife/kids/job).

Most of my trips are a week long carrying 25lbs or less so the Unaweep is overkill but for longer trips and heavier loads it is a fantastic pack.

[Luke F]

A lot of the SO users I’ve interacted with just aren’t the “talk about it online” sort, and website reviews are nearly always fairly close to the purchase time, for long term reviews you usually have to go to blogs and forums.

You can look up Ben Brochu’s Moose River Expedition and Mess Creek Mess Creek Expedition for more big load/long distance use examples.

I’ve never been the biggest fan of Gatekeepers but the lashback is rather overblown. To say it is only a weight savings thing is typical UL myopia, what they offer (and bachelor buckles as well) is nearly infinite modularity. A QR buckle always requires a mate, a hook buckle only requires webbing (and sometimes not even that if you are creative), from daisy chains to loops to random straps, you can hook them anywhere and achieve setups that you otherwise couldn’t. Not everyone needs or wants this, but for people that do it is a huge deal. You can achieve nearly the same thing with slotted repair buckles, but it is much more hassle. It is perfectly fine to dislike them, but to broadly dismiss anyone that does like them (as well as to use the second laziest ad hominem; young trendy people) is silly and unnecessary.

[Tipi Walter]

Luke—Some of us are worried about GK usage in terrible conditions—Severe cold, ice encrusted, frozen webbing, mitten use, etc.  QRs never have been a problem in these conditions—except when the webbing behind them is frozen solid, making loosening/tightening difficult.  But the actual mating of QRs in these conditions works well.

[Derrick White]

We all have different experiences and preferences.  I use all three of the above connecting gear.

When I received my SOS Evolution (Revolution’s precursor) it has QRs.  I removed them and replaced them with SOS Batchelor Buckles (BBs).  The primary impetus was having broken various QRs over the years while tensioning.  Once I made the swap out, an additional benefit became obvious as I began to work on attaching the pack frame to the front of my packraft.  The BBs worked much better for attaching SOS frame straps to tie-down points on the boat.  The key to their successful use is aligning the hook to pull inwards on the grosgrain loop while under tension.  This requires having both left and right pointing hooks.

I continue to use QRs on connections with less strain, and quite independent of the development evolutions of SOS, I began using GKs for connections which sometimes experience slack – leading to possible disconnection – and which are not under heavy strain.  My cautions with GKs is not with their finickiness in winterweather, but more concerning for me is their lack of strength under strain. I don’t see the adoption of GKs by SOS as a backward step, nor as warranting some of the criticism and condemnation I have read in this thread.   Their advantage is the reduction of hardware by allowing connections to simple grosgrain loops. Personally, I haven’t found their function to be more diminished in winter conditions than that of QRs.  Assuming they are as strong as GRs, they are arguably superior.  At any rate, it is simple to swap one out for the other.

Regarding SOS packs generally, I am a person who despite applying lightweight backpacking techniques invariably finds myself with a 60-70 lb pack, either because of the duration of my trip or the gear required for the various types of activities I plan do while on it.  I have used several load haulers including Arteryx Borah, HMG 4400 Porter and the SOS Evolution.  For me, the SOS has the comfort of the Borah at a weight close to the Porter ( I use a 65L SOS Stopper Dry Bag with the SOS frame).

YMMV.

Derrick

 

[BPLwiia]

I started this thread and will say that after quite a bit of research I am going to get one of the SO packs. It will either be a Unaweep 6300 or a revolution Fortress 6300. I was a bit concerned about the lack of a zipper but, upon reflection, that’s ok. Normally, I organize everything in their own separate stuff sack and it’s a lot easier to just grab the sack you need.

I went on an overnight backpack with my McHale and decided to use no stuff sacks. I put all of the contents leaving anything I had to access before camp on top. Frankly, it was just a lot easier.  The lack of a zipper will make the bag more waterproof.

Now it’s down to deciding between the Unaweep or the Revolution Fortess platform.

[Roman Vazhnov]

I have broken a lot of fastex buckles, even big ones on the belt of the Arc pack, and small ones on the side compression just by tighten them. Using now a pack with GC for several years (not SO pack), including winter, GC works fine. When GC is closed it holds significant tension, i doubt that it is lesser than fastex can hold, but i want to make an experiment.

[Randy Cain]

I have a Seek Outside Unaweep and much prefer it over the TWO custom McHale packs I had years ago.  I don’t even want to remember how many thousands of dollars (literally) that those cost me combined…and the long wait times involved. :O  The Unaweep feels like it will last forever, and I don’t have to be all worried about snagging it on things like I do with some of the popular ultralight packs.  It’s built like a tank.  A lot of folks on a site like this won’t be interested simply because it weighs more though.  I’ve had 2 Zpacks packs, 2 HMGs, several MLD packs, and the 2 custom McHales I mentioned.  If I had to have only one pack, I’d just take the Unaweep, because I know I don’t have to worry about tearing it up, whether I’ll be exceeding it’s “comfort” rating, etc.  It’s really quite an amazing pack!

[Brad Rogers]

Unless you want to be able to use the frame to carry things without the packpag (say like a Granite Gear Flatbed) then get the Unaweep.

The only real advantage to the Revolution is you can use it without the packbag to carry odd shaped bulky items that you might run across in hunting, or trail maintenance (chainsaw, etc).  That ability adds some weight though.

[Derrick White]

Or you can use it to carry fully waterproof bags such as the sea to Summit and seal line dry bags, which is a pretty important function for activities which involve considerable water exposure like packrafting

[Brad Rogers]

True.  The X-Pack that SO used is waterproof but not seam sealed.  I seam sealed mine and had no leaks on two different trips to Alaska(one packrafting), a trip to WRR, and a couple of local training hikes, however i wouldn’t trust it like a true dry bag, so good point.

[Tipi Walter]

Okay boys, I took the plunge and purchased a SO Brooks pack at 7,400 ci.  Right now I’m going thru pack options and lashing and finally came up with a way to attach my various items onto the outside with the Merlin pack above the main rolls and secured by over-the-Merlin-top cinch straps.

All these straps can be left permanently on the pack and only need to be loosened to retrieve items.  This config shows a 21 day winter setup with 4 season tent and ample high Rvalue sleeping pads.  Everything else goes inside the pack—

**  45-50 lbs of food/stove and fuel.

**  3.5 lb down bag along with clothing and winter down parka/pants.

No matter how much I try it at home, reality won’t hit until its out in the field on an actual trip with some real world weight.

**  One obvious problem—The over-the-top Y strap is NOT long enough to easily pass over a fully loaded engorged pack—Plus—this strap is definitely not long enough to go over a horizontal thermarest on top of the pack or a pair of boots for water crossings.  I got rid of the Y feature and just use the whole long strap as a single strap from back to front.  This single long strap at least holds down the roll top loop from snagging tree limbs.

This pack could use an adjustable lid to secure big items under it—like boots for water crossings.

The bottom red/green rolls are my tent and a test roll.  The upper roll is a huge Thermarest Base Camp pad. Note that the ample side pockets are not loaded with anything.

I put the Merlin pack atop the rolls and it’s lashed down with cinch straps.  It’s clumsy to try and attach this small pack to the main pack body’s side loops as the Gatekeepers aren’t really designed to attach two loops meeting each other.  (They need double gatekeepers with two male sides—hard to explain).

The Merlin is easily removed and will be used as my in-tent, in-camp ditty bag full of items I need while camping like paper towels, spoons, headlamp, batts, radio, camera, spare fuel pump, ETC.  It also doubles as a daypack with shoulder straps for long water runs from camp.

The long vertical big side pockets will house my tent poles, two 22oz fuel bottles, stove and probably extra food—and my trail tools.

Let the games begin.

[Brad Rogers]

That looks like quite a load.  I hope to hear your thoughts after a few weeks on the trail.

[Nathan Coleman]

Tipi Walter, if you’re using a Merlin on the face of the brooks then you would connect it to the six side compression straps of the packbag, not to the web loops on the side face seams.  That way it’s kind of floating and acts as a compression panel.  Much easier that way.

[Tipi Walter]

Okay, I see what you’re talking about on your Brooks website pic with the Merlin.  I usually like to leave my pockets unrestricted as the pocket itself keeps its contents “cinched” by the pocket zippers.  Don’t particularly like having my outside pockets strapped and cinched when I often have to go into them frequently for items during the day.  And by doing so letting the Merlin go slack etc.

But yes, there are lash loops on the edge of the pack bag up and down the frame.  I’ll play around with those loops and maybe come up with an even better solution, like running my outside “roll” items vertically up the back instead of horizontally—with the Merlin placed on top using those frame edge loops.

Stay tuned.

Sounds exhaustively complex but it’s all very simple.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

If you want to keep side pockets on the brooks free of straps you can use small biners to connect the merlin in two spots and then one rear over the merlin.

GK can work , but as you said are not really made for that.

 

 

[Luke F]

Looks good! I’ll be interested in hearing your long term feedback, I’ve enjoyed your writeups and pictures for quite some time.

It wouldn’t be too hard to simply source a longer piece of webbing to regain the Y-strap, many places would sell you 2 yards of webbing for a few bucks.

[Tipi Walter]

I’ll keep you guys informed and file a full report asap.

[Tipi Walter]

I also started a similar discussion here—

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/126825-Seek-Outside-Brooks-Pack

[Brad Rogers]

Thanks Tipi.   I have a little over 300 miles on my Unaweep 4800 and it has been fantastic.  While my trips don’t push the capabilities of the pack at all, I know you will but the pack to the test closer to it’s limits.  I look forward to hearing your feelings on the pack after a few trips.

[Tipi Walter]

I’ll give it my best shot, God willing and the creeks don’t rise.  But it’ll be several weeks before a full report is forthcoming.

[Federico Calboli]

For what is worth, since people did complain about the gatekeepers.  I took out my fencing gloves (Geier 448 if you care to know).  The gloves are old, the leather thick and they are stiff.  In addition my fingers do not reach the tip of the glove, so I have little dexterity  — but these are *fencing* gloves.  Pliers and barbed wire, not brain surgery.  I tried doing and undoing the gatekeepers.  Worked.  I would not say manipulating small stuff with those gloves is something I’d like to do for hours, but opening, unhooking, rehooking, and closing the gatekeepers was not much different than with bare hands.  Now, I admit these are not mittens, but my mittens are actually softer [1].  In any case colour me surprised.  I would have though much more effort, but the gatekeepers worked better than I expected.

 

[1] why not testing with mittens then?  because I’n not at home, that’s why

[Kyle Meyer]

There are scant real world tests of these packs, especially with significant weight—or long duration.  Like some guy using one for a year in all conditions on expedition type trips with around 75 lbs of weight.

Was searching this forum for information on large mids and tipis, came across this thread, read it, and figured I’d weigh in with my experience carrying these packs since it’s fairly extensive and this discussion was 90% about buckles from people that haven’t even used the packs.

As background, I have ~120 nights on a Seek Outside Revolution frame with loads ranging from 20 pounds while summer recliner backpacking to 110 pounds packing out an elk this fall that I shot 8.5 miles from the car. I also carried a Divide for ~30 nights prior to selling it here on BPL and buying a Revolution. I’ve backpacked over the years in Osprey, ULA, HMG, and Zimmerbuilt packs as well. Two of my friends also carry Seek Outside packs after having packed animals alongside me and they agree.

From what my friends and I know and have tried, there isn’t a better frame system at this weight, for all loads, than these packs. They carry everything extremely well. A 30 pound load in my Revolution feels dramatically better on my back than a 30 pound load in my Circuit, and so I find myself either covering identical distances with a two pound heavier load more enjoyably, or carrying more of the fun stuff—fresh foods, beer, a klymit dinghy and paddle, hammock, etc—just as comfortably.

Since this frame works so well, the extra weight is worth it in the vast majority of circumstances. Thruhiking long trails may be one of the only exceptions where pack weight matters more over the long run. Sure, they don’t have the aesthetic flashiness of a lot of brands, but what you get for the money is a practical backpack that will carry basically anything you put in it more comfortably than any other backpack ever discussed on this forum.

Here I am very unhappily carrying my boots and pants, bow, two elk legs, and my backpacking gear with a couple days of food barefoot on numb feet after crossing a creek. But, the frame isn’t collapsed, load lifters are well above my shoulders, and everything is working. After a 7 mile carry in a single go, I had no bruising or hot spots.

If it works well in that scenario, you can bet your ass it’s comfortable with typical ultralight loads.

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