New from Tarptent

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Very interesting stuff. Thanks!

[Ryan Smith]

Pulled the trigger on one today. My wife and have a trip planned for later this year and this seemed like a good fit. Lightweight and provides full coverage. Can’t wait to take it on a few shake down trips!

Ryan

[Todd T]

Pulled the trigger on one today. My wife and have a trip planned for later this year and this seemed like a good fit. Lightweight and provides full coverage. Can’t wait to take it on a few shake down trips!

Looking forward to your impressions!

[Stephen Parks]

Nice work Henry.

I think I’ll mod my notch inner to use that loop and hook method to hold the doors open.

[Nicholas Meadors]

Pulled the trigger today. Should get it’s first use in Moab later this month. Really looking forward to this design! So long as our pup stays curled at my girlfriend’s feet like she usually likes to do, it will be perfect.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I also purchased a Saddle 2 a few weeks ago. I’ve finally got a few nights on it, so I wrote up some comments on how the Saddle 2 and StratoSpire 2 compare on my blog to aid others decisions.

[Todd T]

Thanks for that write-up Mr. Durston.  Interesting and helpful.  I look forward to your eventual full report.

[Ian]

Dan,

Outstanding write up.  When the time comes and you ride out a wind/snow storm in it, I’d love to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the SS2.  Trying to read between the lines on your initial impressions but it seems the SS2 might be more wind worthy from a staking perspective but the Saddle has a lower profile and would catch less wind?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

My guess is that the Saddle is better in high winds. As discussed earlier in this thread, the SS2 catches quite a bit of wind on some sides (the ones with the pitch lock corners). The Saddle is smaller and has steeper walls, so I think it would catch less wind and the stakes would hold better because there is no one stake that takes a huge portion of the force. You’d definitely want the ridgeline guy-outs deployed though. There are places for additional guylines also.

Ultimately though, if you’re expecting serious winds then neither of these is ideal.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Just got my Saddle 2 in the mail.

First pitch was weird, had to look ath te instructions (dont tell anyone) to figure out eh ends.  Its a simple two-step process.  Got a pretty tight pitch in about 2-3min.  Second and third pitches were faster and tighter.  The placement of the corner stakes determines the tightness of the floor and the fly.  I’ve found out that the fly may be tight, but the inner wont be.  I have the place the stakes further from the center of the tent (outward) but the width was ok. With Henry’s designs there is a bit of freelancing to pitch sometimes because the structure is from tensioned fabric, rather than poles, so stake placement is paramount.  This is what a lot of people dont get, the need to dial in your pitch… or, maybe they get it but they dont wanna do it.  (these people should get the Moment, lol)  Personally, I like the nerdery of getting a taught pitch, so they are fun tents to play with.

anyway…

I got the semi-solid inner.  It seems like a good ratio of mesh/ ripstop.  I really like the venting options and cant wait to have full vents open, with the fly rolled back. I suspect we will be using the fly only often, and with the dog.  It looks like a sweet setup for that.

The inner is a little bit smaller that I thought it was gonna be.  Definitely a two person, but the canopy was lower overall that I expected.  We totally have room to sit together, and change clothes and stuff…  but it just feels smaller.  It may just feel small because I normally use the Scarp2 without the inner and its huge.

I like the new sil he has.  I has a little more stripe action but otherwise is about the same to the touch… I’m just saying that I know H is picky and wouldn’t change unless there were some advances worth changing to, and I’m excited because the old sil never failed me, so the new stuff must be awesome.

Plus… now I have a shiny new tent!  !!BOING!!

 

Also, has everyone seen that there is a Bowfin2

[Todd T]

The inner is a little bit smaller that I thought it was gonna be.  Definitely a two person, but the canopy was lower overall that I expected.

How tall are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Jeffs Eleven]

Im 5’10”.

Dont get me wrong, its not a Terra Nova Laser, there is headroom. I’ve just been using the scarp, which has an arch pole, AND we dont take the inner to the scarp, so it reads like a three man tent from the inside.

I think its one of the differences among the tt designs: the ones with the arch poles have more interior height. The trekking pole tents sacrifice a little space for weight, but i believe Henry has an idea of how much voulme should be in tent for two, and he wont go below that volume. This guarantees that it will be an actual two person tent.

Notch/ Saddle vs Moment/ Double Moment

Notch and Saddle are lighter but a little smaller, Moment line heavier but roomier

EDIT> In august Im taking it out for 10 days so I’ll get a feel for it and report back.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Well it’s 6 months later and I’ve got ~100 nights on my Saddle 2, so I wrote up a long term review of it on my blog:
https://intocascadia.com/2017/10/02/long-term-review-tarptent-saddle-2/

Unfortunately, the review is quite negative. The Saddle 2 has numerous issues that make it a poor partner in tough conditions. These include disappointing construction quality, very saggy silnylon, a lack of refinement of the door design and many smaller issues.

I hope that TarpTent is able to overhaul this tent, as the core concept of using 4 trekking poles is a good one.

[Ken Thompson]

Outstanding review Dan. Thanks.

[Erik G]

Even more outstanding that you got 100 nights out in only 6 months! If only…

+1 Another excellent review

[David Wiese]

Kind of a bummer to hear. :(

Have been eyeing the Saddle 2 for my wife and I. Been trying to decide between that and the SMD Haven + NetTent.

[Todd T]

Thanks much for the excellent review. Disappointing to be sure; I had great hopes for the Saddle 2. However, after reflecting a while on your negatives, I’m not completely sure I understand just how bad the news is. I’m currently using a Notch, so my many of my comments are in relation to that tent. First of all, the fiddliness of the pitch I think I can live with. The Notch is a little fiddly too, but I make do. Here are the other things you mentioned:

Cons:
– Poor construction quality
– Door design / weatherproofness
– Difficult to use door clips
– Saggy fabric
– Poor inner floor pitch

Construction quality: Is this different from all the rest of Tarptent’s products, or are you calling all of them on the carpet?

The drippy doors are a disappointment, but my experience with the Notch is that its doors are likewise not really drip free. Is the Saddle 2 worse? Is it worse than the tents that aren’t advertised as drip free, like the Rainbow?

Door clips: I’m bumfuzzled that anyone would view door zippers as a one-hand operation. In my experience that’s true only with a cruddy pitch. With a taut pitch a one-hand zip would ruin the zipper in short order. Also, the Notch has its little clips that are likewise two-hand, upper-body-in-the-vestibule doo-hickeys that feel like Playskool made them. I’m having a hard time believing the S2’s are worse.

On the saggy fabric, I hope someone in the know (i.e., from Tarptent) will comment and explain if the S2’s fabric is different or, if all tents are using the same stuff, when it was changed.

Finally, I guess I’m not too worried about the floppy floor as long as it doesn’t hinder use of the tent–i.e., doesn’t let the floor slide out to one side so it gets wet in a storm.

So…I’m not sure how disappointed to be.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Todd:

“Construction quality: Is this different from all the rest of Tarptent’s products, or are you calling all of them on the carpet?”
The construction of my Saddle 2 is definitely not as good as my SS2 was. I’ve only used these two TarpTent’s, so I can’t generalize beyond that, but I would say my SS2 was average/acceptable, while the Saddle 2 is below average/disappointing.

“[Are the door drips] worse than the tents that aren’t advertised as drip free, like the Rainbow?”
No. Many tents are worse. The Saddle 2 doors are worse than claimed for drip protection, but certainly many tents are more vulnerable.

“I’m bumfuzzled that anyone would view door zippers as a one-hand operation. In my experience that’s true only with a cruddy pitch. With a taut pitch a one-hand zip would ruin the zipper in short order.”
Even using two hands for a zipper, I think it’s less substantially less fiddly than the clips. They also don’t fall open when the tent isn’t pitched. The clips aren’t the end of the world, but like using zips much better, specially #5’s for a tent.

[Todd T]

Thanks, DD.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Good review.

Ive used mine for 12 nights. Im really curious about the sagging as i havent been rained on yet.

The door clips: my wife hates them, i like them. They are quick and strong. To me it wasnt any harder than zippers, just different.

The pitching is definitely not for people who dont like to fiddle with it. I like fiddling with it, but it definitley will have you scratching your head on uneven terrain.  I get what dan is saying about the floor, but its of no consequence.  As long as the main ridgeline is pulled tight the inner hangs wide enough.  Its useable, just maybe not tight.

Also, i have played with the tent height to help tighten the whole thing. If you cant pull the vestibules taught, raise the height. I was able to get everything taught even when i had to put the peg in a less than desirable spot.

Gonna be curious about the sagging till i get rained on.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Jeff:
Try adding some 1/8″ shockcord loops to whatever stake out points you can, so they will take up some of the sag. This is what TT does from the factory on the StratoSpire.

This doesn’t seem easy to do at the end stakeout points, but it should work for the ridgeline stakes.

[Jeffs Eleven]

As of yet i dont have a sagging problem (as far as my tent is concerned). … but i havent been rained on.

[Ian]

Dan,

These types of reviews are what brought me to BPL.  Outstanding work.

Sorry to hear about the Saddle.  I hope they get this sorted out as it has a lot of nice features on paper.

 

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

I’m late to the party but I did want to respond to the points made in the article.

First off, thanks for the detailed write up. I take your criticism of the clip system to heart and agree that it needs improvement. You will see a revision later this year that both makes the clip in / clip out process easier but also protects the clip from exposure to rain. The rusting effect you encountered was unexpected — the clip is nickel coated steel but abrasion and rain exposure apparently wore off at least some of the nickel coating over all those nights. The updated design will eliminate that. The clip system is not going away and it there intensionally in order to eliminate any chance of mechanical failure, an ever present albeit low probability risk inherent in zippers. The side to side floor tension can also be improved and an update is coming that will allow the trekking poles to supply it (as is the case with the Notch).

I want to address some other specific criticisms.

Pitching. You say that pitching is a problem because the ends are variable and not fixed “like virtually every other tent.” That statement is just not true if you pitch it as we ship it with the storm flaps engaged. Those flaps do in fact define a fixed end length and give you an exact corner to corner distance and tension feedback loop.

Doors/rain protection. I stand by our statement that the “Interior never gets wet during entry, exit, setup or takedown in storms.“ That is absolutely the case. You can easily get in and out and keep the interior protected. If is also true that if you tie back the vestibule doors then you pull the fabric back and inward and you do expose a bit of the interior to rain. In that way it is different than the StratoSpire 2 but lots and lots of tents don’t protect the interior with the vestibules tied back and we have never claimed that the Saddle 2 fly protects the interior when the vestibules are rolled back. I will say that you can quite easily use the existing velcro system to tension back the vestibule flap about halfway to encourage ventilation and still protect the interior (see below).

http://tarptent.com/photos/saddle2openvest.jpg

End vents. They didn’t fail for you, nor have we ever heard of them failing. I really just don’t understand your argument. It is true that the tie-up should probably be moved about inch. If you roll tightly they don’t bind the velcro but, yes, with some slack they currently can.

Construction. Without seeing your particular Saddle 2 I can’t say for sure but I very much question your pronouncement that stitching quality had declined relative to your StratoSpire 2. It’s the same people and the same sewing techniques. In particular your claim that our stitch length is too long is just flat out wrong. Tighter stitching doesn’t make it stronger — punching holes in things makes them weaker, not stronger. Tighter stitching presses fabric edges tighter together (at loss to fabric strength) and reduces thread stress per inch but that just isn’t necessary as threads don’t break unless unusually stressed at high stress points and for those we reinforce with fabrics and extra stitching. Real world testing has born this out over untold hundreds of thousands of nights of collective use.

Fabrics and sag. We use a variety of fabrics and the Saddle 2 uses a different fabric than your StratoSpire. It’s a lighter fabric with a 50% higher pressure rating than your StratoSpire. The downside is that it is stretchier. Much of any stretch can be easily compensated for by internally boosting your trekking poles as necessary after initial pitch. Going forward we are working to bring in some newer lower stretch fabrics which also feature high pressure ratings.

Thanks.

Henry Shires
Tarptent

[David Wiese]

Thanks for the response, Henry. Appreciate the communication.

[Author]

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