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  • #3439553
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    The Saddle 2 product page is now posted here –>

    https://www.tarptent.com/saddle2.html

    No setup video yet but we’ll get that done when the weather clears.

    -H

     

    #3439558
    Dan Durston
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    So in a comparison with the SS2, is it fair to say the Saddle has a bit less floor space (29 vs 31 sq ft) and interior height (41″ vs 50″) but saves quite a bit of weight (39oz vs 46oz) and maybe pitches in a little smaller space? Or maybe the Saddle has similar interior headroom because of the tall end poles? And maybe the Saddle has more total vestibule area with the ends everted into additional small vestibules?

    Any other major considerations? Does the ridgeline benefit from additional guyline stake outs like the SS2 does? Or is 6 stakes a solid pitch?

    It would be great to hear some subjective comments on how the headroom and setup ease compare with the SS2.

    Thanks!

    #3439576
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Very interesting!  So the zipperless doors are held together with velcro? Does just one side bear the structural load (when not using the apex pullouts)? The way the end flaps can be anchored either in or out looks very useful.

     

    #3439587
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Todd,

    The zipperless doors do have a storm flap which secures with velcro but the door edge seams are strongly curved and tension together whether or not the velcro is employed.  There is a metal tension hook along the low hem edge which hooks onto a heavily reinforced edge on the adjoining half. When locked the tension is strongly transferred up both vestibule halves.

    -H

    #3439591
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Dan,

    Yes, a little less floor space and lower peak headroom although that is very dependent on how you set your poles and adjust the tension straps on the interior apex points.  What is a big difference is the end fly structure which makes it all but impossible to run into a fly wall.

    Yes, apex guylines add additional stability although not as much relative additional stability as they do on the SS2 because, unlike the SS2, the vestibule staking tension is already in line with the ridgeline.

    Re, setup it’s definitely a different procedure than the SS2 but I think a bit faster.    If you want to get a rough idea of what the video will show, here is a slide sequence  –>

    https://www.tarptent.com/SaddleSetup/

    -H

    #3439643
    Jeff Patrick
    BPL Member

    @callmeammo

    Hi Henry,

    Do you have a slide sequence like that for the Stratospire 2? Mine just arrived and I haven’t set it up yet, but the slide sequence looks more helpful that the video.

    #3439676
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Hi Jeff,

    We don’t, sorry.  The key thing is to get those first 4 stakes placed such that you form a regular rectangle with reasonably taut long sides — see steps #3 and #4 in the instruction sheet.

    Feel free to give us a shout if you need setup help.

    -H

    #3439694
    Dan Durston
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    Jeff: I’ve been meaning to do a SS2 setup video, as I have a different technique from those shown by Henry and Franco (although kind of similar to Franco’s). I get all 6 main stakes in before erecting anything, which works better in windy conditions. I’ve tried to articulate my method in my review here:

    https://intocascadia.com/2015/11/30/long-term-review-tarptent-stratospire-2/

     

    Henry: Thanks a lot for the additional info. It’s clear that you’ve put a lot of thought into this tent, and it’s another clever, innovative design.

    I’m on the fence between ordering a Saddle or another inner for my SS2 for an upcoming 2017 thru-hike (those darn rodents). As perhaps you’ve seen in my review (above), I really like the SS2 but still don’t love the setup on undulating or poor substrate. To be clear, I think the benefits of the SS2’s shape outweigh the added difficulties, but if the pitch was easier that would be even better. So maybe the Saddle captures some of that.

    I think where most of the struggle occurs is with a 4 sided pyramid you can stake one end, pull the fabric taut and then stake the other end and it will be in the right position if you’ve pulled it out 90 degrees, since there are natural lines of tension to rely on. Doing the same thing (pulling one end taut after staking the other) with a 6 sided pyramid doesn’t work because it’s possible to pull it out too far (unless there was a fixed connection between the end corners, such as nylon cord connecting the inner to the ends). Instead of relying on inherent tension, one must estimate the stake locations, which usually means fine tuning the locations later. Not a big deal normally when one can partially insert stakes easily, but in combination with the SS2s slightly fancier shape (b/c of the pitchlock corners) things can get a bit wonky and it’s often not that apparent which stake to move until one has more experience. If the ground is curved rather than level things can get quite wonky.

    #3439718
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    Jeff,

    this is my version of setting up the SS2 :

    YouTube video

    Call those first 4 stakes A,B,C and D.

    Make sure that C and D are parallel to A and B and that there is some slack in the fabric in between.

    (you push the stakes in pointing away from the center of the shelter so that the tie out loops don’t pop out)

     

    Once you do that rectangular bit , the vestibules pull out to the correct shape , well they do for me…

     

    #3439729
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Hi Dan,

    I hadn’t seen your review it and you clearly put a lot of effort into it so thanks for that.

    Re: setup, I haven’t tried your particular method but I have spent quite a bit of time tinkering with / optimizing the setup procedure and I’m still convinced the most reliable way is the way we show it. The reason is that without an initial true rectangle connecting the vestibule stakes you’ll always be guessing about how to get to a symmetrically tensioned structure. I do hear what you’re saying about setup difficulty in wind but the solution to that, ground level permitting, is to face the initial vestibule squarely into the wind.  Two stakes, then initial pole–3 point of contact with the wind wanting to blow the rest of the fabric in exactly the direction you want to go next anyway.  Then 2nd pole, then two more stakes.  If you do that all the wind forces will be parallel to that initial 4 stake setup and you’ll be up and stable before pulling out the two strut supported ends.

    So..I suggest giving our recommended setup another go. Yes, there can alway be wonkiness but the above method minimizes it. For me, the biggest wonk factor is the 30 degree rotation of the interior away from the fly symmetry. That does require a little bit of thought when pitching on sloped ground.

    -H

    #3439730
    Dan Durston
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    I do it like Franco, but once I have the 6 stakes in then I check to make sure it’s symmetrical before adding the poles. To do this, I stand at one of the short sides and look across to see if the opposite short side is parallel to the one I’m standing at. So imagine a line perpendicular to the short side you’re at, and then see if that lines up with the center of the opposite site. If your hexagon is wonky then they won’t line up and you need to move stakes until they do.

    #3439732
    Mole J
    BPL Member

    @mole

    Locale: UK

    I do our SS2 like Franco too.

    Henry,  you seem to be  suggesting that having the door side facing the wind is better than a pitch lock corner to the wind ?  interesting. I assumed the latter, certainly looks more aerodynamic.

    Have you compared these 2 pitch methods/orientations in strong (30mph+) winds or in a wind tunnel?

    #3439746
    Dan Durston
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    Mole: My experience is that the pitch lock corners can be subject to much higher forces, as they anchor a larger portion of the canopy. So it’s better to have the door side facing the wind. With the door side you’ve got 2 stakes anchoring less canopy.

    When I hiked across windy SoCal on the PCT, staking was sometimes a battle with high winds and sandy soils. In these conditions, I had the pitch lock corners pull out a few times, but never the other stakes. If the pitch lock corner is into the wind then basically the entire side of the tent is relying on that one stake.

    #3439759
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Mole,  the SS2 is stronger in wind with one vestibule facing into the wind, especially if you run the apex guyline right down the middle of each vestibule to lock the ridgeline.  I have attached a diagram showing the relative profiles for the SS2 facing vestibule into the wind and the SS2 strut supported corner facing into the wind.  Compare the relative horizontal and vertical displacements and overall area. Not only is there ~ 30% more surface facing the wind in the strut supported configuration, that extra surface area is at a higher level above ground where the wind is stronger.

    -H

     

    #3439804
    Mole J
    BPL Member

    @mole

    Locale: UK

    Interesting. I hadn’t considered orientation like that.  Thanks Henry (and Dan).

    I understand the peg stress, but wasn’t thinking in terms of area at peak. I had been approaching it from observing the steepness/angle of the wall facing the wind.

    1. The first real test of my SS2 was pitched for 3 days on. Base camp at a youth backpacking event on a high moor. It was consistently windy, and on the second day the wind swung to be against a vestibule.  The steep sides seemed to really bow/flap in the wind. There was a lot of stress on the shockcord.  One Delrin ring at a  stake point broke and another deformed to oval with the constant stress of the wind. On that weekend, I felt that pitching pitchlok into the wind made the canopy deform less and shed wind better. I’ve pitched this way ever since in winds ( Inc a week in the Cairngorms sometimes in strong winds).  I did double up guy/staking the pitchlok a couple of times as its stake was coming out .

    I will try the other way again.  It’s certainly slightlyfaster/more straightforward, but I  find it harder to work out where the inner will end up that way ( as Dan describes).

    There is my initial review here:

    http://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/tarptent-stratospire-2-initial-appraisal.2192/

    In light of Henry’s comments there could be an erroneous assumptions going on if best way to pitch really is side on not end on.

    Needs updating. We have since taken the SS2 for other trips including 2 weeks backpacking in the Pyrenees (HRP and GR11).  It was perfect for that.   My partner loves the space /livability).

    Apart from the staking issue I’d still be interested in a side by side comparison/test if the two orientations in the wind!

    #3440151
    Katherine .
    BPL Member

    @katherine

    Locale: pdx

    Ooooh, the Saddle is beautiful!

    Looks like the “dimensions” diagrams need correction or clarification — from the width I’d conclude you couldn’t fit two wide pads (42, 43″ across?). But the specs say 50″ and the text says you can. As a wide–pad user I really appreciate TT’s designing around that!

    Re SS2 pitching fiddliness: You gotta do it once in the backyard to figure it out. After that initial learning curve, no big deal. I’ve only tried it the official TT video way.

    Sigh, there are so many TTs I want. At least I have one.

    #3440152
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    #3440153
    Katherine .
    BPL Member

    @katherine

    Locale: pdx

    ah, i see where I got confused.

    #3440156
    Gordon Gray
    BPL Member

    @gordong

    Locale: Front Range, CO

    Wow.  I am now just discovering the Notch.  I may have get one.

    Though there are some great deals on the Six Moon Designs stuff currently.  Hmmmmm.  Decisions.  Decisions.

    #3440192
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Okay, I’m upset with Henry for creating this thing. It’s not like I actually need it, but my lustinterest has been piqued. So I have a few more questions for him and/or Franco.

    • Will there be a partially-solid inner tent option for this one?
    • It looks like the end flaps are held together with a couple of small velcro strips. What’s to keep a high wind from pulling them apart? Is there any way to connect a line to both sides when pulling them outward for the alternative closed position?
    • Is my math correct that the Saddle2’s vestibules are a couple inches wider than the Notch’s?
    • Is it my imagination or do the main support poles lean outward a bit?
    • I notice shepherds’ hooks instead of the usual Easton aluminums. Is that necessary for the way the end lines loop around or just a new direction for Tarptent?

    TIA

    #3440256
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    Will there be a partially-solid inner tent option for this one?

    Yes, not sure of timing but likely spring

    It looks like the end flaps are held together with a couple of small velcro strips. What’s to keep a high wind from pulling them apart? Is there any way to connect a line to both sides when pulling them outward for the alternative closed position?

    Yes, 1 in wide velcro. The low point is a smaller section but the upper one is much longer. The low point is held in tension by a tension loop that hooks under your end pole. It’s quite strong and you’ll find that it really can’t be opened by wind alone.  You can always ask for extra tabs to be sewn onto anything we make — no charge for that.

    Is my math correct that the Saddle2’s vestibules are a couple inches wider than the Notch’s?

    Yes, correct.

    Is it my imagination or do the main support poles lean outward a bit?

    Also correct.  That’s for enhanced stability.

    I notice shepherds’ hooks instead of the usual Easton aluminums. Is that necessary for the way the end lines loop around or just a new direction for Tarptent?

    We use shepherd hooks around here for quickly setting up tents to do seam-sealing but otherwise, no, not a new direction. Shepherd hooks are notorious “twisters” and, in my experience, not good in shifting winds because once the stake starts to twist in the ground, the line comes off.

    #3440295
    David P
    BPL Member

    @trailguru

    Locale: United States

    Henry,

     

    Will you offer options that have solid walls instead of no-see-um mesh? I often find myself wanting it especially when hiking in the High Sierras when it’s windy. Due to the dryness and general windiness of several locations I find that the fine dust find its way inside the tent and just sticks to everything.

    Of course that happens with practically any tent but i’d like to see some kind of offering that has A. A hybrid option B. full solid panels instead of some attachment like the Cloudburst 3.

     

    Regards,

    #3440297
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    David P,

    Have a look at the partial sold interior we offer for the Notch.  That’s likely the design what we’ll do for the Saddle 2 as it stop low level wind and blowing dust.

    -H

    #3440304
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Have a look at the partial sold interior we offer for the Notch.  That’s likely the design what we’ll do for the Saddle 2 as it stop low level wind and blowing dust.

    I have that inner (as well as the full mesh one) for my Notch and tried it on a cold windy night on snow a couple weeks ago. Seemed to work very well. I’d be pleased to see a similar design for the Saddle 2. (Thanks again for your responses above, Henry.)

    #3441345
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    The Saddle 2 set up video :

    YouTube video

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 115 total)
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