More stable alcohol stoves

[Brett Peugh]

Hello all,

I thought I would ask this question since it has been awhile since it has been discussed.  Also, I believe many places are cracking down on alcohol stoves because they can be easy to tip over and cause a fire.

I was wondering if anyone could suggest alcohol stoves that are more stable with a pot and have a possible stand and windscreen that can be used with them.

There is a setup like this, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QD2HNH3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details, that uses a Trangia but it is also is pretty heavy.

Thank you.

 

[Bob Shuff]

Trail Designs and FlatCatGear come first to mind. I’ve tried both and highly recommend them. I have not yet tried the Evernew Ti Dx set, and it would seem to be less wind resistant. All of these are pricey, but the first two are definitely tried and true.

[MJ H]

I have a stove stand like that made by Esbit, but it has only three sides.  I never had any trouble tipping it over, but it is basically just a pot stand.  I still had to use a separate wind screen with it to get good efficiency.

[Steve Thompson]

Ditto the Trail Designs Caldera Cones.  Their Kojin stove is wide and low profile (like a shoe polish tin) not tippy at all, and the cone windscreens are wide base and likewise stable.

[Dan]

The caldera cones are fantastic for stability, combination windscreen and stable pot stand. Love ’em.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

full disclosure (blah, blah, blah).  I highly recommend a pot/mug that is supported by a windscreen rather than supported by the stove.  Significantly more stable.  My 2 cents.

[bjc]

I’ve been looking at the x boil stoves that seem to fit Jon’s advice.

[Mark Verber]

like others I would say the most stable (and efficient) system I have used is Trail Designs Caldera.

Unfortunately in my area it doesn’t matter if the stove is very stable… the criteria seems to be that the stove has to have a knob you can turn which cuts off a fuel supply.

[Jeffrey H]

The Kojin stove seems next level stable since you can cover it with the lid and the flame almost instantly goes out. Now I’m interested to see if you were to tip the Kojin on its side or all the way over would the alcohol leak out. It kind of seems like once it’s absorbed into that membrane it’s not going anywhere. At least not instantly like if it were just in the reservoir of a more traditional alcohol stove.

I have noticed that with my toaks 750ml pot that the kojin stove does not boil water as quickly as the older stove I have from Trail Designs. However with the big 2 person anodized pot set I got from Trail Designs (I think that kit is called the sidewinder) both stoves boil water at about the same speed. Just a guess, but I think the surface area of the larger pot and the fact that it sit lower to the ground, and therefore closer to the stoves, is why that is. I have gotten away from using the Kojin for this reason.

[Jeffrey H]

Oh I just remembered I saw a “first impressions” type review of this http://www.neotrekk.com/ Very interested. Here’s that video that it get’s mentioned in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARwKxQ30oOI Starts discussing the “pill bottle stove” at about 8:40 mark

Have not tried this but I’m super curious

[Brett Peugh]

Thanks everyone.  I did look for a Caldera cone for a Evernew 1.3L but it seems they are out and don’t know when they will come in.

[Matthew / BPL]

Email TD and ask. They may have some kicking around or will give you an update. They are very accommodating and customer service oriented. I like their stoves a lot and have had my eye on setups from a Flat Cat Gear too.

Each year I call Inyo and/or Seki and ask about Esbit and they always say it’s fine. I ask for the name of the ranger I talk to and keep a note of it in case a backcountry ranger hassles me about it. I feel like Esbit is extremely safe. YMMV

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

For the best stability, select the Sidewinder version and not the standard come.  The center of gravity is much lower and the windscreen will nest inside the pot.  My 2 cents.

[Brian K]

I have been using my Tinman Antigravity Gear stove for years and love it.  Stability seems fine, windscreen that comes with their kit is satisfactory.  I use the Evernew .9L wide pot to maximize efficiency.

[Ray J]

Adding a Second to what Matthew K said.

I had a mix & match going on with alcohol stoves.  Zelph and others.  I had “I like THIS Zelph stove, but THIS TI mug, plus….”.  I emailed Trail Designs with what I liked and wanted to do.  WOW, within a few hours, I was asked some follow up questions.  I answered and within a few hours I had an email with a custom-built-for-me link to a custom Cone and set up putting together all my wishes.

[Nick Gatel]

I’ve been using Caldera Cones for over 15 years. Very happy. Plus I am still using the original 12-10 stove — works good enough for me, so not need to upgrade.

For the past 7 years I have been using the Trail Designs Fissure Ti-Tri Stove.

Here’s an article I wrote on these Caldera Cone systems compared to other types of stoves and related fuel costs.

[Brett Peugh]

I want to thank Jon and other folks in this conversation.  Yeah, a pot supported by the windscreen seems the best way to go and also one that keeps the pot closer to the stove.  It has also made me think more about being able to easy cover the alcohol stove to put it out but also one that might be a bit taller to be more efficient. That and have everything nest in the pot.

What is a good stove that people would suggest that can be covered to be put out but that is also pretty tall?

As a side topic, does stainless steel last longer over time in the stove/windscreen versus al or ti?

 

Thanks.

[Nick Gatel]

What is a good stove that people would suggest that can be covered to be put out but that is also pretty tall?

As a side topic, does stainless steel last longer over time in the stove/windscreen versus al or ti?

My only experience is with Trail Designs Caldera Cones. The height of the pot above the stove is calculated and they match their stoves with the pot height/cone design.

I pour just enough of fuel to last for one boil. It would be a hassle to remove the cone to stuff out the flame.

Regarding materials . . .

The early Caldera Cones were made from aluminum, which had a tendency to deform along the stamped guides to connect the two ends of the cone. Even though I knew this was a limitation and was careful, I deformed the guides as shown in the pictures below:

 

The titanium cones (I don’t think they use aluminum anymore) is much more robust and one doesn’t need to be super careful compared to the early cones (see below).

Keep in mind that this is thin metal and care must be taken to avoid slicing a finger. Fortunately I’ve had no problem with cuts.

[Thom]

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Full disclosure: blah, blah blah. The most robust windscreen is one that can be protected, in many cases, that would be storing it inside your pot/mug. With respect to materials (Al, SS, Ti), IMO aluminum is the least robust due to its low Yield Strength and low Modulus of Elasticity. With respect to weight, .003” SS is about the same weight as .005” Titanium. Both materials are excellent.

Tall stoves are not necessarily more efficient that low stoves: a lot depends upon you mug/pot diameter. Chimney stoves tend to be very efficient for very narrow pots/cans, but require a tall ground to pot distance than other types of stoves. The extra height requirement impacts overall stability as well as storage options. Everything is a tradeoff.

 

[Brett Peugh]

Sorry, I should say I am using an Evernew 1.3Ti

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Full disclosure: blah, blah blah (and I really mean it)

IMO, given the original objective of stability coupled with an Evernew 1.3 liter pot, here are your 2 best options

Trail Designs – Sidewider
Flat Cat Gear – Bobcat Original

Both are low profile, both windscreens can be rolled up and stored inside the pot, both have been around for around 10 years or so. Best wishes.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I agree with the Caldera Cone tribe. My Trail Designs titanium Sidewinder for a 3 cup pot by Open Country is very stable for alcohol use with the KOVEA , VARGO or other alky stoves I’ve tried.

But I confess to being an ESBIT fan and don’t use alcohol any longer.

[Jeffrey H]

“Full disclosure: blah, blah blah (and I really mean it)”🤣

 

[Brad Rogers]

Another Caldera Cone fan here.  I’ve been using the same cone since ~2008 and it looks rough but still works fine.  I’ve actually worn through some of the aluminum on the connections that slide together.  Newer cones have that section made from titanium so it should last longer.   I’ve also still got the original 12-10 stove that looks really rough, but still works fine, though the Kojin stove may be better if spillage is a concern.

Anyways the stove is super stable – honestly, it’s quite a bit more stable than any top mounted canister stove I’ve ever used.  In 15 years, I’ve never needed to replace it because it still works and performs its job as well or better than anything else on the market at a reasonable weight.

 

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