Looking at the next UL Shelter… Advice!

I’m currently using and enjoying a silnylon SMD Deschutes with an MLD Bug Bivy. It’s a nice setup, however there is no good way to pull the bivy up off your face. I’ve been putting my pack above my head in the bivy which does a reasonable job of keeping the netting off of my face.

I’ve been thinking about making two modifications to my Deschutes. You might consider asking SMD to do these modifications if you purchase a CF model from them. I think they build the CF stuff in-house whereas the silnylon come from out of the country. This review mentions getting some Linelocs added on.

1. I’d rather have Linelocs over the webbing guyout points. I may crack the ladderlocks off of my Deschutes and attach them like Yama Mountain Gear suggests (sorry only one link per post!). There is nothing particularly wrong with the webbing solution other than the sewn loops on the end are barely large enough to get my preferred Groundhog stakes through. In the end I just prefer Linelocs and Glowire.
2. I’d like a small grosgrain loop on the inside of the midpanel guyout point for my bug bivy. It wouldn’t be a perfect solution but it would be better than no guyout point.

I’ve not sat in the shelter with another person yet. I think you’d have to pitch it fairly high for that to work well.

How tall are you? I’m 5′ 6″ and have enough room even pitched pretty close to the ground. I’d imagine a tall person (6′ or more?) would be limited to higher pitches.

Also, I believe Chad B has used an MLD Bug Bivy with a Cricket tarp. He uses a backpack to keep the bivy off his face.

What about an MLD Patrol or Grace? You could pitch it high and have someone else sit under it.

Have you considered a flat tarp? I purchased a 5×9 SLD flat tarp last fall. It’s a nice setup with a bug bivy for good weather but I wouldn’t want to rely on in in a nasty storm. I’m tempted to try an 8.5×8.5 tarp each time I see one come up in gearswap but they require so many guyout points/stakes/rocks and it seems like it would take a long time to set up and take down. The Deschutes is fast to set up and amazing to take down.

I love my Cirriform. I have the single wall but why not just grab the tarp and use a different inner or even use your bivy? Also, an often overlooked option is to use the “build your own” option just below the Cirriform offerings and choose a cuben floor for the inner which is only 8.2oz for the single.

You could take a look at the TT Notch.

Heavier than your selection but you can get the 16 oz fly (plus stakes) to set up as a shaped tarp with large entry points (x2) still having most of the floor under cover.

This is me having breakfast ,having packed up the inner and sleeping gear,   waiting for the rain to pass.

26 oz with the inner , you can choose between full mesh and semi solid interior.

https://www.tarptent.com/store/notch-fly

franco@tarptent

I have the Deschutes silnylon in which I sewed a perimeter bug net and at 17 oz it works for me for the six weeks I need it for mosquitos. I am impressed by many aspects of the Deschutes including being able to fit in a second person in a pinch so I also got the Deschutes CF and integrated the zpacks hexamid twin poncho floor which fits remarkably well and is a bathtub for a total of 13 oz. I got whacked by some serious wind/rain and began to question that night the openness of the front of the Deschutes, but the height of the bathtub at the front was the difference, I pulled it up the pole, and I stayed dry. I fit just OK at 6′-2″, again the bathtub helps keep my feet dry. I have never tried a flat tarp in sideways rain but I suspect that I would not like it so much.

I’m still tempted to try an MLD Solomid… I picked up the Deschutes earlier this summer because I needed it quickly and it seemed like a cheaper way to try out a shaped tarp. To the OP: why don’t you think a Solomid will meet your criteria but a Deschutes will? What is the advantage of the Deschutes as you see it? Is it the hexagonal footprint rather than a rectangular footprint?

Cameron – I’m not surprised about the compatibility of ZPacks/SMD. This review seems to indicate a good match between the brands.

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Matthew you and I think a lot a like. I have been eyeing a square tarp for some time and quite like pitching the 8×10 sil tarp I have now. But I have never taken it on a real trip before and I’m not sure I’d like to given the extra work to set it up and the again lack of full coverage.

I am fortunate to be short at just under 5’8″ I fit into most shelters well.

I have a very light slightly modified Nemo Hornet at 28.1oz all in its tough to beat for what it is. However it lacks the versatility of a tarp. One of the things I would have really appreciated on my most recent NCT trip was a tarp to shelter under and behind against the constant sea spray off the Pacific during both evening and morning duties.

Great insight into the Deschutes I would most definitely prefer just simple loops that I could tie guy line too rather than the straps. I prefer taught line hitches vs the line locks, less things to break. Also sounds like the bug bivy is possible but not ideal  I suppose I can look at something custom here. Or as you say some mod that would keep the netting off my face which I think would drive me mad

Re using it in tarp mode I would expect that I would have to pitch it higher and even use two poles to make it work and then bring it in for bedtime.

Re the mid I I guess the more severe shape just seems like it would not “flatten” out enough for much coverage in tarp mode. The Deschutes seems well flatter or more spread out such that it would work as a flat tarp better.

Re the Zpacks floor that is good to know for sure when a net is not needed.

Re the Patrol it was on my list for a while but the rear panel limits its coverage in flat tarp mode. The Stealth solves this by adding a door there so you can flatten the profile right out.

Re the Grace I lump that in with the GG Twinn tarp (the Duo anyways) I like these a lot but again like the Cricket concerned about coverage. Especially given Cameron’s experience with the Deschutes which I would rate higher in coverage than the aforementioned shelters.

Hoosier re the Cirriform is the rear panel openable?

-Michael

youll need a stealth 1.5 ti fit 2p under the tarp

;)

Thanks also for posting that link re the compatibility of SMD and Zpacks that’s good too know. The author most have an older version of the serenity as the current version is 11oz. Given that compatibility I would have to add the Plexes and the Hexas to the list of options. Though Zpacks recommendations of 10 stakes in windy conditions is disconcerting…

Thanks Eric I should clarify I’m not planning to have 2 people in tarp mode for sleeping in. Just as a basic shelter to huddle behind/under before I repatriate it as my bedroom! :) like this pic only the front end raised up with a couple of poles or even the long side raised up with a couple of poles.

-Michael

I’ve been using my Deschutes CF exclusively this year. I ordered it with LineLocs which I recommend. It came in at 8.25 oz without it was probably 7.5oz. The .74 oz CF seems very robust. I’ve been pairing it with a myog 7D sil/pu bathtub groundsheet at 3 oz. It is definitely big enough to fit a second person in a pinch but you may get a little wet in heavy rain from splash. If it’s a bad storm you can pitch it flat to the ground and the door will only be about 7″ above the ground so coverage is good. This may not be possible for taller people because it decreases the interior space considerably. I’m 5’9 and it’s cozy in this configuration. From what I can tell, you can also pair it with an MLD solo innernet cf for less weight. I like the modular aspects of this set up.

Thanks Don. If it is possible to pair it with an MLD Solo Inner net then thats pretty compelling at a 17.7oz total weight. Have you ever set it up high just to chill in before hunkering down for bed?

Anyone use an MLD Solo inner net with the Deschutes?

I just touched base with SMD unfortunately doesn’t look like they will be producing any Deschutes CF until next year…:(

When you say the Cricket won’t accommodate the bug bivy, are you talking about in the bug net, or under the tarp in general? If it’s the latter, I’m afraid you are mistaken. I own the cuben version of the Cricket and (sans bug net tent) it’s actually quite spacious for one -104″ L x 70″ W x 52″ H- (1″ shorter, 10″ narrower, and 4″ taller than the Deschutes). It will easily accommodate any bivy I’ve seen, when it’s just the tarp portion.

I would also argue that while it doesn’t have “full coverage” in stronger storms, pitching the low side into the wind, and/or good campsite selection would negate this. The overhang is also pretty generous and can be pitched somewhat lower for a semi-storm mode (though that range is limited by the lack of stretch of cuben fiber).

In the end I’d probably go with the Deschutes. If I wasn’t taking this tarp on a long trip I’d have gone with the Deschutes myself.

@wanderingjohnny

He is actually correct. The MLD bug bivy specifically, has a shape/design that should be used for A-frame pitches to take advantage of the shape it was designed to be used in. Their other bivys would be fine but this bivy would not work so hot under a cricket. And he did specify MLD bug bivy:

Will not accommodate MLD bug bivy.

@wonderingjohnny, its the MLD Bug Bivy, I spoke with MLD they said it would not fit well. Though there appears to be folks using it under the Cricket it doesn’t sound ideal. Though it looks like it would accommodate the 7.5oz Solo Inner and thats pretty darn close in weight.

@krampusoutside

Michael,

I actually think the set up would be closer to 16.25oz because the cf solo innernet is 8 oz. Just going off of specs, I’m pretty sure it’ll fit. I’m kicking myself because I sold my MLD solo innernet before I bought my Deschutes . ? Now I’m waiting for one to show up on Gear Swap. ?? You can also pair it with a sea to summit pyramid net tent at 2.9oz. I’ve done it a couple of times. I really like the Zpack Solplex but for only 1oz to no weight savings it wasn’t worth giving up modularity because most times I don’t want an inner. I like them if I know I’ll do shorter days and spending more time in camp. Primarily to get away from mosquitos.

I usually set it up kind of high. About 4-6″ above the ground for the sides and back. In that set up it seems really spacious. I would really love if they just made a smaller true pyramid. Like the defunct MLD Solomid but 9oz or lighter. I love the MLD mids but they’re overly built for me at the expense of some weight. The cf Duomid is awesome but it’s 14oz.

Oh, that’s right – the MLD bug bivy is a bit different than the typical bivy design. I was thinking of the superlight bivy, even though you did in fact state that it was the “bug bivy”. My apologies!

With that in mind, it absolutely would not work, and I imagine the Deschutes would also not fare well with it’s mid shape – or any other mid for that matter.

I use the Deschutes a few ways. My preference is always to sleep in the open. If I am only slightly unsure about the weather, I set up the Deschutes, yank the pole out, and sleep on top, but with it ready to deploy in seconds if there is a surprise. With two people and more uncertainty about rain, but where it does not seem stormy, I pitch it high and sleep in it.  If the rain is hard or driving sideways, in seconds I can lower the center pole a bit and pull down the line-locs to bring it closer to the ground.

I understand the appeal of the openness of some tarp setups I see others using; I just don’t think that they would pitch that high or that open if it were truly stormy, at which point I ask what truly is the advantage over a pyramid?

Michael

Just some more info.

My Deshutes comes in at 9oz exactly with all guylines and stuff sack. I use thick, 3mm Lawson glow line because when I’ve used thinner line they’ve slipped during the night. No slipping now. I use 8ft of 1.5mm zline on the 2 side tie outs. I only use 6 stakes. If I want to tie out the sides I just use dead man technique with sticks and rocks. It’s worked fine so far. YMMV

I’ve pretty much settled on the Deschutes at this point. Here’s a great shot (from: sherahikes.wordpress.com) Of the Deschutes CF in a higher mode and thats without fiddling with a third pole (one at each end to make it even higher) This is the kind or versatility I’m after. Its got the side door which I love and seems a good balance on coverage and simpler than a Solplex.

Problem is there are no CF versions available and won’t be for some time. I may pull the trigger on the Sil and wait it out till next year or one becomes available used. Paired with the Solo Inner I’d be looking at 23oz (including stakes) saving only 5 oz over the Hornet but better versatility and like Don suggests I could use the S2S pyramid net with a polycro floor to bring it down to 20oz total (no bath tub though).

I can’t believe they’re not making them right now because they seem pretty popular.

Michael,

How are you coming up with your weight totals? Conservatively I figure

-Deschutes with Polycro groundsheet and S2S pyramid net is 13.5 oz (9 + 1.5 + 3).

-Deschutes with MLD Solo innernet is 16.5 oz (9 + 7.5).

I’ll let you know how the MLD inner fits if I get one.

Best,

Don

Another vote for the Descutes CF.  After lots of research it seemed like a great combination of rain and wind protection and light weight. I had to wait a few months to get it, but it came fast once in stock last Fall. Mine weighs 9.5 oz with linlocs and 2.3mm Glowire and modified door hooks (Zpacks type). I did change the way the doors attach to the front guyline, though, for a more secure hold.

After nearly 2 weeks of use, I’m still torn between a Borah Gear bug bivy (side zip with M50 foot and head boxes) or the Sea-to-Summit Nano Mosquito net. Both have pros and cons and work well. Here’s a photo of it set up in the Goat Rocks wilderness of WA with the Borah bug bivy.

Lester,

Can you post a close up pic of the door hooks you’re talking about?

Thanks,

Don

Believe he’s talking about these

http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/door_hooks.shtml