Lightweight Crew Gear Consolidated Thread

[Brad P]

I’ve gone through the Philmont forum here and there are many mentions of lightweight crew gear that you take rather than using Phil-gear. In addition to wanting to go lighter, we need to train, particularly since our troop has limited backpacking experience.

So, I was wondering if those with experience could list specific equipment (links would be very much appreciated) for the pots, bear bags, ropes, tarps, etc. that you’ve found to work well. It would be good to also mention things that don’t work well. I tell my kids, you learn more from your mistakes, but it’s better to learn from other people’s mistakes. :) I think many others would benefit from this, too.

Thanks!

[TAG in AZ]

We used Philmont pots, bear bags and ropes. There is quite a bit of contention trying to do otherwise and it wasn’t worth the hassle (to us). There are several threads in this forum talking about pots and cooking techniques, so I won’t repeat that discussion.

We didn’t do anything revolutionary. We did shakedown hikes ahead of time and make sure we didn’t bring too much personal gear. From a crew perspective, we did take 2 cuben 10×10 tarps rather than the Philmont tarp. We were fortunate and didn’t have to use them much. But, they were much lighter and packed much smaller than the Philmont issued tarp. Not everyone can go that route, but you can certainly purchase sil-nylon tarps that are lighter and pack smaller than the Philmont issue.

We did save crew weight with our mess kits. We bought mess gear for everyone and treated it as crew gear. We used plastic, screw top bowls and folding spoons. Total weight for the setup was just over 1 pound for everyone. They were the perfect size and made clean up super easy. After eating, just add some water, throw in your spork, close the lid and shake. After drinking the gray water, add a little more water and a drop of camp suds and repeat. Done.

Here’s exactly what we used:
Spork: https://www.msrgear.com/folding-utensils
Bowl: http://www.rubbermaid.com/en-US/takealongs%C2%AE-twist—seal%E2%84%A2

[Brad P]

Good advice. Our troop hasn’t been to Philmont in a while and our gear is lacking in training gear. I’m hoping to get stuff that we either take or is good to simulate what they’ll do at Philmont.

The more experience they have, the more they’ll enjoy it, I think.

[Brad P]

I’m looking to suggest this for mess kits.

Fozzils Bowl

[Jeffrey Peters]

We used the Fozzils Bowls and cups . After you are done eating unsnap the bowl and lick it clean then wash . My suggestion is to use the Philmont issued gear. Make your weight saving in the gear your scouts bring to Philmont.  I saw a lot of scout with stuff they just didn’t need. Saw one kid with a Kbar knife strapped to his pack. Many of the scout were lugging around four nalgene bottles instead of lighter options.

 

[Brad P]

We will definitely work with the scouts on their personal gear, including the cheapest way to go lighter, leave stuff at home. :)

I was just hoping to consolidate gear ideas here, including anything new people have found that works well. We have training hikes, too.

[Tim P]

I am looking hard at taking one whirly-popper pot instead of one of the Philmont pots.  The tarp I saw last fall at the PASS course didn’t look too bad compared to the tarps I lugged around as a kid.  I am sure cuben fiber tarps are lighter and smaller, but I don’t think that we have the budget for something like that.

At the PASS course, they explained that there is no other option on the bear ropes.

[Jay L]

Same as @TAG in AZ – we use their ropes/bags because it is not worth fighting that battle.  Ive only heard a few cases (and not recently) where someone was successful in using Amsteel (pretty expensive).

We take our own silnylon tarp.  I dont have a link – I think it is “equinox” brand and I think it is 10×12.  We use trekking poles to put it up.

We dont take their pots etc.  We use our regular patrol box aluminum pots from an old BSA or Open Country “patrol cook kit”.  I think we take a 8qt and a 6qt – you’ll use the big one to cook patrol-style and the other one you only need for heating dish water so only needs to be big enough for your largest bowl.

Also dont take their utensil kit.  Just bring 1 non-slotted serving spoon.

[Bob Shuff]

Great thread.  We’re taking two crews this summer, and although we have some experienced backpackers, this will be the first Philmont trek for all the adults.  I’ve come around to using Philmont methods (as if I had a choice), but have also seen some good ideas, and would love to hear specifics for lightening the load where possible.

Bringing your own pots might not be worth it.  That’s a big thing to travel with unless you are driving there.  We’re flying.  I’ve heard some sew their own bear-bags from lighter silnylon, but scouts are notoriously rough on gear in my experience.  I may make myself (and son) a lighter bear bag, but I don’t want to give all the scouts something they are going to abuse and rip, when they can probably carry the extra weight.  I’m still thinking about the tarps and rope because as a hammock camper I know you can get better/lighter gear in this regard.  I’m curious where TAG in AZ got his 10×10 cuben tarps.

I’ve used the ziploc version of those rubbermaid bowls and they are super handy for rehydrating or storing food for eating later.  I assume you still need to dip them to sterilize as part of the pre-meal prep. You can also store plenty of stuff inside while in the pack, like a small coffee mug, folding utensil, maybe a bandana or some other smellables like coffee or tea packets.  I might bring my small BSR canister stove for quicker coffee in the AM, and there are pots that hold these bowls nicely.  The ziploc versions would seem easier to make a DIY reflectix pot cozy, which would keep the food warm longer.

Our first shakedown hike is coming up.  I’m sure some scouts will bring things they shouldn’t.  I brought a hatchet on my first backpacking trip when I was a tenderfoot, and I bring too much stuff today, but I have gotten better.  It’s up to them in the end, but hopefully they will learn from the prep hikes that it’s better to have less stuff, and it’s better to have a lighter pack.

[Bob Shuff]

Does anyone know how much the Philmont pots weigh?  Maybe I’ll rethink taking our own pots because we just cleaned out our backpacking patrol boxes and removed the larger pots.  Except for Philmont we would never use those on a backpack.  We still use them on car camps, but those are separate patrol boxes.

 

[Brad P]

Yeah, in 2018, using giant pots on backpacking trips seems, well, insane. I’d rather teach the scouts more appropriate backpacking methods, but I do understand Philmont’s reasoning, even if I disagree with it. It’s their place and their rules.

Sounds like we’ll likely use Philmont ropes and bags. Suggestions on the best source to duplicate what they use?

[Nate Ward]

in ’16 the only Philmont gear they made me take was their bear rope, even though we had the exact same rope, no big deal there.  WalMart has some SS stock pots for cheap you can purchase.  Use them for training or carry them.  We made cozies for ours, which holds a lot of the heat when rehydrating.  I get our crew feed sacks from a corn distributer, we label them with everyone’s  name, makes mornings easy….my two cents….

[Brad P]

The feed sacks are for food or crew gear?

[Bruce Tolley]

BPL has published some very detailed articles on this exact topic. For example, SM Doug Prosser at https://backpackinglight.com/philmont/

+1 to the Open Country pots. Right price. Light enough.

+1 to not arguing with Philmont about their bear protocol and gear.  I took some photos of all the damage to trees and the soil around the bear hanging spots wrote a long friendly email about how a bear box would have less impact on the environment…..Got no reply.

[Carl Zimmerman]

On our last Philmont Trek, we used a little of the Philmont-issued gear as possible.  Very heavy.  We were stuck w/ their heavy ropes.  We considered the large steel pot as a historical artifact (WWI or WWII era?) and showed it the respect it deserved by letting it stay locked up in our truck and didn’t take it.  Our cooking setup worked great for us.  Very fast.  Clean up was a breeze.  Here is what we used:

2  MSR Reactor Stoves w/ 2.5L pots; homemade pot cozy (reflectix) for each; plastic casserole container w/ lid (the reusable but disposable kind) and accompanying homemade cozy for it; long-handled folding ladle; long-handled spoon (for stirring).  Note:  We carried an extra casserole container in the unlikely event that one was damaged.

We would pour the dry food into the containers (2 or 4 servings per container, depending on size of container).  We would boil 2-L of water in each pot.  It wouldn’t take long.  We would pour the appropriate amount of hot water in each container.  Stir and place it in the cozy to continue cooking.  Any left over water in the pot would be kept hot by placing the pot in its pot cozy.  We used this hot water to clean the casserole containers & utensils.

This system did throw off the Ranger’s initial presentation Philmont-way schedule.  The crew was eating a long time before he was finished with his presentation.  He also learned not to put his hand in the water of the pot 30 minutes after it boiled.  He was warned but didn’t believe the water was still hot.

[Nate Ward]

To the man asking about the feed sacks….for bear bags….Past two trips to the hill, I’ve gotten everyone corn sack from when I fill my deer feeders.  Each person has their own sack plus a couple for oops bags, when the sack are empty enough we combined with our tent mate.  With our names on them it makes shake out in the morning a breeze.

Above is a picture of what we carried for water at camp.  Rib Crib also has the same container.  You can order a gallon of tea w/o the tea….still cheaper that a Platypus! Our ’16 Ranger was skeptical at first and was worried about durability until EVERYONE in the crew pulled one out…plenty of spares that were never used…no failures at all.

[M B]

Philmont gear isn’t that heavy.

I really don’t know where people get this idea.

For us, it was only about 2 lb per person.

Worst case with their pots maybe it’s 2.x lbs per person.

Hardly earth shattering.

Worry about the other crap people are bringing instead and you’ll be better off. A lot better off.

 

We did not bring the oops rope.

We brought a 6 quart and a 4-quart pot

The Philmont bags and rope work fine.

[Brad P]

My reason for this is that we need to do shakedown hikes, so we need our own gear that can either be taken with us to Philmont or do a good job of simulating what we’ll do at Philmont with their gear.

[M B]

Not necessary.

Your Ranger stays with you the first two days. Teaches you how to do things the Philmont way.

There is zero need to practice anything ahead of time. None.

In fact it even if you do practice he’s going to teach you anyway he’s required to. You are free to do what you want within limits when he leaves…

Things like bringing your own whisperlite stove and dining fly are good. Someone to know how to work it and clean it. But after that not all that important.

The real function of shakedown hikes is to force people to acquire the doggone basic  necessary gear instead of waiting till the last minute, and get familiar with it.

 

 

 

 

[David Y]

Having been to Philmont several times we feel its best if everyone know what to expect and be proficient in the skills used there. We conduct four shakedown training trips on as long and difficult weekend trips of two nights and at least 15 miles as we can find locally. Everyone is required to attend at least three. We follow the Backpacking Merit Badge requirements.

We conduct pack shakedowns before every trip to ensure everyone has the essential gear to be safe and comfortable and to reduce unnecessary items and counsel them on good and bad choices. And we weigh their packs before and after the shakedown.

We have assembled all the crew gear we will use at Philmont and practice the same skills that will be used there. Some of our crew gear is better or lighter than Philmont’s so we take and use some of our gear there.

We made our Bear Ropes from 100 foot of ¼ inch braided nylon rope from one of the large home improvement stores just like Philmont’s Bear Rope just for training at home. We use Philmont’s Bear Rope when we go. But we do use 100 foot of 1/8 inch reflective nylon cord for our Oops Bags Rope at Philmont instead of using another ¼ inch rope just to hoist one small Oops Bag. Easier to find in the dark with a flashlight.

We made and carry to Philmont our Bear Bags out of brightly colored ripstop nylon from fabric / craft stores sewn into 30” x 40” bags, four of one color for each crew. Our bags are easily identified from other crew’s Philmont bags hung on the same Bear Cable.

We have and carry at Philmont an Equinox 10 ft. x 12 ft. sil-nylon tarp from Campmor for our rain fly. We lace three 25 foot x 1/8 inch cords through both bottom edge eyelets and for the ridge line.

We have and carry at Philmont a Chinook Stainless Steel 41040 Ridgeline Camp Cookset on eBay. It has 6 and 2.5 quart pots with lids much like Philmont’s. And we only carry one large serving spoon.

We have and carry at Philmont a set (one for each crew member) of GSI Outdoors Cascadian 6.4 inch polypropylene bowls and soup spoons from Campmor or REI and regard them as crew gear. After washing and drying they are stacked and placed in a one-quart re-sealable freezer-grade plastic bag.

We carry two MSR Dragonfly stoves and three 11 ounce MSR fuel bottles. One stove is a spare and back-up and seldom used. We always use the stove’s windscreen and pot’s lid to speed boiling to conserve time and fuel.

We have and carry at Philmont a lightweight 11 inch high-impact styrene Camp Trowel for cathole sanitation in a one-quart re-sealable freezer-grade plastic bag with a small bottle of hand sanitizer.

We have and carry at Philmont one comprehensive first aid kit and is only opened when two Wilderness First Aid responders are attending a serious injury. Otherwise everyone carries their own small lightweight first aid kit with Moleskin, Band-Aids, BodyGlide, tape, Neosporin,  aspirins, etc. and personal meds.

Every Scout is assigned to carry and be responsible for a crew gear item appropriated for his size and ability for the entire trek. Everyone learns and knows where every piece of crew gear is at any given time during the day.

[Brad P]

David Y, I agree. I’d rather our crew have some level of comfort doing things the Philmont way. I’ve read the stories of how long dinner can take as well as getting out of camp in the morning. I think being prepared will make the experience more enjoyable for all.

Thank you for all the advice!

[David Y]

Right Brad  P,

Like anything else to get the best out of any experience you need to know how to do it.

We often see crews just get up and “cooking” breakfast as we are arriving at our next camp. That means they will be hiking in the hottest part of the day, getting into their next camp late, only getting the left over campsite on the side of a hill and missed the program feature.  All because they just don’t know what they’re doing.

Training your crews to get up before dawn and be on the trail at first light means you will be hiking in the coolest part of the day. You can hike faster and more comfortable and be in your next camp by noon. You’ll be first in line for program feathers, have time to take showers, do laundry and take siestas.

[M B]

There is no “wrong way ” to do it.

Just like there’s no wrong way to do Disney World either. Some people have different approaches that suit their desires better.  If boys want to stay up late, Sleep in, etc that’s fine they’re on vacation.  Taking breaks and lollygagging on way to the next camp is OK too.  IF thats what the boys want to do.  And teenage boys can be surprisingly lazy when left to their own devices.

 

Our boys  spent one day hiking in noon heat with no shade to take break under,  before deciding to be on trail an hour before daylight every day. Usually reaching destination late morning with minimal breaks. That was their decision.  The trade-off is it meant a very early bedtime for everybody every night.  And even though the crew leader set his alarm for 3:30 a.m. , He still needed ” encouragement” from advisors to get up first and get things going. He would sleep right through his alarm. We debated if we should “allow ” him to oversleep but in the end we decided to assist when he did.

 

This is an important point. 99% of the time it’s going to be an advisor that’s holding up the speed of the crew on trail.      Not exactly fair to the boys.  Advisors are the ones that need to get their fat butts in shape for the boys not to miss out on activities.

[David Y]

I agree that advisors are the weak link and need to train hard carrying their fully loaded pack on tough trails or up and down stairs two to three times a week to get into shape (unless you’re a marathon runner) for what is coming.  Even so, the Scouts, carrying all the crew gear and food, can still walk us into the ground. “Youth is wasted on the wrong people.”

Our Crew Leader rises an hour before sunrise, goes tent to tent waking everyone. We all dress for the trail, pack our sleeping bag, pad, etc. before exiting our tents. Those responsible for carrying the Bear Bags and Ropes retrieve and empty them at the Fire Ring then pack them away. Same goes for the Dining Fly, Cookware, Stoves, etc. The Crew Leader spreads the breakfast items into 12 equal piles and the remaining food stores into appropriate piles for the Scouts. We each collect our breakfast and eat as we strike our tents and form a line to police the campsite, or eat some items later as we hike. We are on the trail within ½ hour of rising and before sunrise when it is becoming light enough to hike and still very cool.

Some may say this is very difficult or impossible. But our troop adopted these techniques and practice them on all our backpacking trips so by the time our Scouts are old enough to go to Philmont this all comes natural to them. Train all your Scout from the start the way you want them to do Philmont and you won’t have to re-train them when they get to go.

[David Y]

We often strike and pack away our Dining Fly just before retiring for the night so it won’t be dew soaked in the morning making it heavier. Toilet paper and hand sanitizer are always obvious and readily available either under the Dining Fly or at the Fire Ring. The crew’s comprehensive first aid kit is always obvious and readily available either under the Dining Fly or in the Oops Bag with everyone’s personal first aid kit when retiring for the night.

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