How will Trail Designs stop this?

[Stormin]

Ultra light alcohol furnace cooking system cone windshield ultra light aluminum pot/titanium pot capillaries
http://s.aliexpress.com/ZNvYfae6?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
(from AliExpress Android)

[Roger Caffin]

One hates to be cynical, but the short answer is you can’t. The costs of trying to start a legal action in China, coupled with the extreme doubt of any financial success, means you just walk away.

Cheers

[Ken Thompson]

Brand loyalty earned by excellent customer service?

[Roger Caffin]

Customer Service – yeah, compared to the support one gets from most Chinese vendors, that just might do it.

Cheers

[Gumbo]

Here’s one attempt. Thanks to the 144-year-old Universal Postal Union treaty, it apparently costs US companies 2-4 times more to post a 4 pound package from coast to coast, than it does a Chinese company to ship to the US. A big part of the lure of this Chinese stove kit is that it costs just $4.83 to ship to the US.

As a consumer, I’ve ordered plenty of cheap stuff straight from China, and will miss doing so if this changes. But I can see the logic behind maybe wanting to change this arrangement…

[Jeffs Eleven]

Brand Loyalty?

Ken, you’re showing your age.

[Ken Thompson]

Proudly Jeff.

[Don A.]

Me thinks this is an apples to oranges comparison.  I haven’t sifted through the aliexpress listing word by word but from what I think I have learned so far is that the aluminum pot cone system (no size for pot listed) windscreen, alcohol stove, storage bag and “small steel gun + firestone + T3 stents, whatever that is.  The small steel gun may be the flint striker.  No indication of the actual weight of the kit. It’s priced at $64.79 shipped.

A comparable trail designs package, the Caldera Sidewinder solo with the aluminum pot, alcohol stove, bag, tyvek sleeve and pot holder is $66.18 with tax and shipping.

The aliexpress seller may have a relatively better deal for their titanium package but my questions would be, what size is the pot? And of course, since this is Backpackinglight, what does it weigh?

 

 

[Stormin]

Don A,the aluminium pot is 900 ml, with a aluminium lid and titanium handle 80g. The titanium pot is a Toaks 900 with lid , 120g. The cones have been upgraded to titanium, the Stove is a capillary top jetted can.The steel gun is a screw top carbon felt and steel simmer device. The long thin device is a flint striker.

[Stormin]

This is the updated version.

Ultra light alcohol furnace cooking system cone windshield ultra light aluminum pot/titanium pot capillaries
http://s.aliexpress.com/ZNvYfae6?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
(from AliExpress Android)

[Don A.]

Stormin-curious where you got the information. I see now they offer the systems with either of the two stoves. Do you know what the cone was upgraded from?

Figuring out what the “T3 stents” will keep me awake at night.  Any info on those.

[William Chilton]

“Stormin-curious where you got the information.”

Mainly from here, I suspect.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

How can TD Compete?

The Ali Express option is ~$68 (Package 1: Wind deflector+ TOAKS Titanium pot+Capillary furnace) [no mention of a titanium windscreen, let’s assume it is for now] {it is difficult to read through the website}

Trail Designs Sidewinder ~$80 Ti windscreen TOAKS 900 ml pot, 10-12 stove)

The $12 differential savings is a risk as the performance is unknown, untested and real field data is missing.

I would spend the extra $12 to get an known commodity that has had all of the engineering bugs worked out with years and years (or miles and mile) of testing on it.

My 2 cents

[Roger Caffin]

I would spend the extra $12 to get an known commodity
Not a bad idea, given the rep some Chinese stuff has.

But in reality, and despite the theory of patenting, no-one ever has a lock on a new product. Your only hope is to keep innovating.

Cheers

[jscott]

“I would spend the extra $12 to get an known commodity that has had all of the engineering bugs worked out with years and years (or miles and mile) of testing on it.

My 2 cents”

Me too.

[Franco Darioli]

There are 4 different packages listed. You find the list in the description (item specifics)  and you choose the package under the option :colour.

For example :Product portfolio1:Wind deflector+Titanium pot+Capillary furnace
is $74.89

[DAN-Y]

For example :Product portfolio1:Wind deflector+Titanium pot+Capillary furnace
is $74.89

Their Capillary furnace/stove(top jet) is better than a TD’s 12-10. I suspect were going to see some good reviews of the kit just because of the Capillary furnace/stove. The stove is also known as a “capillary hoop” stove on the Appalachian Trail forums. Good reviews over there on that particular stove.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I don’t what material this cone is made from, but it has the look of aluminum. If so, it’s not nearly as good as a Ti cone because aluminum gets bent/crinkled/ugly over time while the much springier titanium keeps looking good year after year. Cones should only be Ti IMO.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I agree, 100% about Aluminum not being that great for windscreens.  Stainless Steel is a good alternative to Titanium.  My 2 cents.

[Roger Caffin]

Actually, aluminium is fine for windscreen, but NOT when it gets red hot as a cone support. That is where Ti rules.

SS is also good, but it is 3+ times the weight.

Interestingly, I note that the AliExpress ad says they are handmade and you might have to wait. Hum …

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

Looks like Titanium in this photo:

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

erm, Roger.

Ti =  4.506 g/cm³  /  Stainless =7.7 g/cm³

SS/Ti = 1.7 multiplier

0.003″ SS  / 0.005″ Ti  =0.6 multiplier

(4.506 g/cm³)*(0.005″thick)/(7.7 g/cm³)*(0.003″)= 0.975

Net effect, a 0.003″ SS windscreen is about on par with a 0.005″ Ti windscreen

In my experience, a 0.003″ SS windscreen is actually more robust than a 0.005″ Ti windscreen.  The thin SS has lower stress due to the thinner wall and is actually much tougher/robust.  My 2 cents

[Roger Caffin]

Hum … I thought SS had a density more like 8.0, but …

I would not have thought a 0.003″ SS foil would have been strong enough to support a full pot. But I do not know. Has anyone tried it?

Interesting. I could easily be wrong, couldn’t I?

Cheers

[Ken Thompson]

One is talking windscreens and somebody else is talking cones,lol.

[William Chilton]

If you follow the link I posted above you will see that the seller has stated:

“Cone
Titanium windscreen, average weight 40g, packs small
Other size possible for varied pot, contact required.”

[Author]

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