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How to Keep Canister Dirt from Clogging MYOG Remote Inverted Canister Stoves


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable How to Keep Canister Dirt from Clogging MYOG Remote Inverted Canister Stoves

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
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  • #3747652
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Companion forum thread to: How to Keep Canister Dirt from Clogging MYOG Remote Inverted Canister Stoves

    Roger Caffin proposes several solutions to keep dirty fuel from clogging remote inverted canister stoves.

    #3747654
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    I assume this is by Roger, not Andrew

    I love all Roger’s articles.  This one is good.

    Another solution is to leave the canister upright, then only gas flows without any particles

    Inverted canister is good for cold weather.  Other solutions include Mulder strip and a saucer of water.

    Or, my current solution is to use a small torch lighter from amazon.  If the stove slows too much, give the canister a few hits at the bottom where the butane is.  1.3 ounces.  Also good for lighting the stove and lighting fires.

    I have noticed that cheap butane cartridges also say “made in Korea” on them.  Several different brands – Burton, Sun, Gas One.  They must all be made by the same country and then different labels put on them and marketed by different companies

    #3747686
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    @Roger. Could you invert the canister for say 30 minutes to let the debris settle and then press the valve with a pin to eject the contaminants?  Is that viable?

    #3747727
    Eugene Hollingsworth
    BPL Member

    @geneh_bpl

    Locale: Mid-Minnesota

    Roger’s article got me to thinking – what about using this $10-$15 commercial propane filter? Except that we would need a non-existent adapter from the Isobutane canister to the filter, and purchase a Kovea LPG to Isobutane adapter.

     

    Another excellent article from Roger that gets a person to think.

    #3747735
    Andrew Marshall
    Moderator

    @andrewsmarshall

    Locale: Tahoe basin by way of the southern Appalachians

    Ah ha ha, yeah, I absolutely did not write this, though I was honored to shepherd it into production! Sorry for that settings goof all, fixing now.

    #3747737
    Andrew Marshall
    Moderator

    @andrewsmarshall

    Locale: Tahoe basin by way of the southern Appalachians

    Although, Jerry, I’m sure you ALSO love all of Andrew’s articles too, right? Right? :-)

    #3747758
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Roger, you could design a dirt trap similar to what is regularly installed on a gas line. A very simple device that will trap any dirt with no impedance to gas flow, Well, maybe, it depends on the size of the dirt trap. I am guessing about a half inch long and about a 1/4″ around would do well for a couple years.

    #3747774
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Free Offer
    If you have one of my stoves and are having problems with canister dirt, feel free to contact me. I will make the outer spacer, some 8 mm long self tappers (or 10 mm, depending on availability) and some disks of filter material available for free, provided you pay for the (letter) postage. Letters are fairly cheap. Alternately, consider making the parts for yourself! Pretty easy stuff.

    MYOG filter disks
    I find that I forgot to say that paper coffee filters probably work just fine too. And they are readily available in your supermarket. Vacuum cleaner bags might also work.

    James
    Commercial dirt filters would doubtless work, but my aim was to find an absolute minimal solution. Minimal in both weight and cost.
    Also, I am not sure whether the commercial units would fit on the narrow hose I use. Commercial hose seems a lot bigger.

    Photo acknowledgment – correction
    The photo of a V1 stove on some yellow foam in the snow was taken by Douglas Frick in 2013, and was sent to me. My thanks to DF. Hopefully Andrew can correct the attribution.

    Cheers

    #3747775
    David Gardner
    BPL Member

    @gearmaker

    Locale: Northern California

    Or…use a stove designed for inverted butane canisters, but hook it up to an upright Boss Torch propane canister, which has the same fitting/threads as butane canisters. In addition to being upright so only gas flows, it contains a proprietary “tip cleaner” to prevent clogs.

    [edit: NEVER fill a canister intended for butane with propane!]

    Even the initial cost – $3/can (or $33 for a case of 12) is roughly 1/3 the cost of butane. Get a couple of adapters and refill from common 1 lb. tanks or 5 lb. BBQ tanks for pennies. Vaporizes down to -44* F (-42* C) vs. 33* F (0.6* C). Add a Moulder strip and you could probably use it in Antarctica.

    #3747776
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Jon

    Could you invert the canister for say 30 minutes to let the debris settle and then press the valve with a pin to eject the contaminants? Is that viable?
    Sounds reasonable to me.
    But I don’t like ‘wasting’ all that gas! :)

    Hum – could be a useful idea in the field, on a very long trip after a resupply.

    Cheers

    #3747779
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi David

    Yeah, filtering while refilling from another canister is certainly a good idea. MUST be done outdoors of course!

    HOWEVER, A WARNING!
    Refilling a canister pressure-rated for 30%propane/70%butane with 100% propane can be dangerous!
    Our little p/b canisters are not rated or designed to handle the much greater pressure you get with straight propane. It can be several TIMES higher. On a warm day it would not be difficult for the canister to fail, rupture, explode, detonate. Then where would you be? (In shredded bits hanging from the branches of a tree?)

    Be Safe!
    Cheers

    #3747781
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    David GardnerBPL MEMBER
    Or…use a stove designed for inverted butane canisters, but hook it up to an upright Boss Torch propane canister, which has the same fitting/threads as butane canisters. In addition to being upright so only gas flows, it contains a proprietary “tip cleaner” to prevent clogs.

    I recall you purchased a case of the BOSS canisters a year ago. Have you used it? Never read anything here regarding it’s use by you.

     

    #3747783
    David Gardner
    BPL Member

    @gearmaker

    Locale: Northern California

    I agree Roger, absolutely. NEVER fill any butane canister with propane, ever! I thought it was clear that I was saying refill the Boss Torch propane canister from other propane sources, but in case it wasn’t I have edited that post.

    I should also mention that I have a regulator with tank pressure and output pressure gauges. I first tested the pressure in a brand new Boss Torch canister, and I only refill them to the same pressure from my 5 lb. BBQ tank.

    I have used the Boss Torch many times with different butane stoves (BRS, BRS clones, Fire Maple, others) and they work great. The only minor complaint is the smaller diameter of the can is less stable than a butane canister, but I’m working on a leg set to address that issue. Haven’t used one below freezing yet to fully take advantage of propane’s higher vapor pressure, but I’m sure I will eventually. In the meantime I just enjoy saving money.

    #3747791
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    David
    I understand that the BOSS canister is narrow and may be a bit unstable.
    How far can you tilt it from the vertical before the flow switches from gas to liquid? That is, what is the intake inside the canister like?
    It may of course be a standard Lindal valve design, such as I have shown a number of times.

    Cheers

    #3747794
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Roger, there may be a commercial gas filter, but I have never used one. I just use a “T” fitting the size of the inlet pipe, add a small 4-6″ nipple with a cap, and let the gas flow through the “T” to the stove. I’ve installed about a hundred of these before I was 16 years old working for my Grandfather/Father. Likely cost a few dollars for the little brass fitting needed, 3/16-1/4″ should work fine. You can likely get these in nylon fittings for about $0.50 each. Like this:

    #3747809
    David Gardner
    BPL Member

    @gearmaker

    Locale: Northern California

    Estimating about 75-80 degrees from vertical/15-20 degrees from horizontal (that’s a 30-60-90 triangle in the backgound):

    But…why would you want to invert it? To see if your remote canister stove works below -44* F?

    It is definitely a standard Lindal valve, compatible with all my “butane” canister stoves. One caveat: The valves are set down below the crimp a few hundredths of an inch lower than on butane canisters (intentional to prevent compatibility with butane tools/stoves?) and on one of my 12 cans the Lindal valve was a hair lower than the others, low enough that I couldn’t screw any of my stoves all the way on to seal it, and I had to give up on that one. Apparently the compatible propane torches the canisters are designed for have a bit longer “stem” or whatever you call it.

    Smaller diameter Boss Torch = 2.625″ (2-5/8″) vs. small butane canister 3.5″ (3-1/2″)

    #3747813
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi James

    3/16-1/4″ should work fine.
    Aye, there’s the problem. My hose is smaller: 1/8″ OD, 1/6″ ID.
    Hum: does a dirt trap like that always work? The ‘dirt’ in the Chinese canisters seems to be a very fine dust.

    Brass fittings: they might double the weight of the stove! Brass is heavy!

    Cheers

    #3747816
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi David

    Misunderstanding on my part? I thought you meant you were putting the canister upright.

    One caveat: The valves are set down below the crimp a few hundredths of an inch lower than on butane canisters (intentional to prevent compatibility with butane tools/stoves?) and on one of my 12 cans the Lindal valve was a hair lower than the others, low enough that I couldn’t screw any of my stoves all the way on to seal it, and I had to give up on that one.
    Ratbags!
    Add another O-ring inside the bottom of the stove? Coleman had to do that with the Powermax adapter after I explained why so many of their customers were having problems in the field. Or even a thin flat rubber washer under the O-ring?

    Cheers

    #3747817
    David Gardner
    BPL Member

    @gearmaker

    Locale: Northern California

    Roger – got it. With a full canister, about the same angle from vertical but valve end up, before it switches from gas to liquid. Horizontal is the zone where a full canister flows liquid but a half-used can will flow gas.

    I’ll give that o-ring/flat rubber washer idea a try,  inside the bottom of the stove, and maybe also around the base of the Lindal valve. It would be great if it works.

    #3747821
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    With a full canister, about the same angle from vertical but valve end up, before it switches from gas to liquid.
    Understood – with a FULL canister as you say.

    I think you could even use a soft metal or soft plastic washer under the O-ring, as the canister will squoosh the O-ring outwards against the inner wall. That should make an acceptable seal.
    CHECK! In a bucket of water is fine.

    Cheers

    #3747829
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    A week ago I sent 2 empty Boss canisters to France to be used by someone doing mountaineering. I’m glad someone has a use for them.

    #3747830
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Roger, McMaster-Carr has a large selection of both plastic and brass fittings in 1/8″ size. Skip it, you clearly don’t want to do it.

     

    #3747844
    David Gardner
    BPL Member

    @gearmaker

    Locale: Northern California

    Skip it, you clearly don’t want to do it.

    James, are you referring to the debris trap idea or the use a washer or o-ring to seal the stove to tank connection idea?

    #3747881
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi James

    Yes, I do know about the McMaster-Carr range, and have done so for the last 25+ years. They do have a big range, and even some which might fit my stoves, but there are some problems.

    I will only trust PFA and PTFE tubing as other plastics may melt when the stove gets hot.
    The tubing has to take a very high pressure and resist bending damage.
    The size I used is 1/8″ OD and 1/16″ ID, at the limited small end of what is available.
    I will not trust the common Push-to-Connect fittings with liquid propane.
    Most of the fittings which might work are in the $40-$60 price range, each.
    All the fittings add a lot of weight.

    I have better solutions.

    Cheers

    #3748048
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Maybe running water and/or fuel back-and-forth would loosen dirt as well.

    I got my teenage grandsons a Fire Maple Blade 2 inverted canister stove for its stability as their 1st backpacking stove and instructed them on its use.

    On their next outing in the Sierra Nevada it worked well for them both on below freezing mornings and hot afternoons.

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