- Jan 3, 2019 at 2:42 pm #3571185
Just wondering what some of your crews’ strategies may have been for selecting their top 6 itineraries.
The Philmont Guidebook says to have each crew member (youth) choose their six favorite programs, then tally up the results and pick itineraries based on that.
Any other ideas?Jan 3, 2019 at 2:57 pm #3571187
TAG in AZBPL Member
We went through the itineraries with the crew on one of our shakedown hikes. We talked to them about things they might not consider: # of dry camps, days between showers, days between resupply, which peaks we would see, days without program, north vs south, etc. When we got back, we gave the Scouts about a week to submit a force ranked list of their choices. We put the results in a spreadsheet and tallied them up. Only the Scouts voted.
We talked about it on a shakedown hike because this gave the crew plenty of time to talk through details. And, gave us plenty of time to answer questions. I think we would have gotten much different results if we just gave the Scouts the list of itineraries and had them pick without any discussion.
Oddly enough, we ended up with a much longer itinerary that I expected and had the joy of 11 days without a shower. But, the Scouts got what they wanted. They wanted to see both North and South. They wanted to do 2 of the big 3 (Baldy, Tooth, Philips) and they wanted to shoot as many things as they could. They didn’t care about multiple day food carries or big mile days transiting South to North.Jan 3, 2019 at 2:58 pm #3571188
KEVIN WBPL Member
This is the best way to go. Focus on the Programs and the hike difficulty. Don’t pin the entire Trek on going to the top of Baldy or another location as weather may impact this and then the Crew will be very dissappointed.
I found this spreadsheet online and can’t imagine trying to decide without it: http://www.sccovington.com/philmont/trek_info/itinerarySelection/itinerary_selection.htm
Each Crew member ranked their program preferences on the Word document and as the Advisor I plugged them into the spreadsheet. Then we agreed to the overall preferences on the Preferences tab and looked at what we found on the Results tab. This really helped us get to a more manageable discussion and also helped avoid petty arguments on specific activities or some Scouts feeling like no one listened to their feedback.
Before using this format the Scouts were overwhelmed with all the options. After plugging all the data in we reviewed the top 6 in detail and could filter out the others.Jan 3, 2019 at 6:40 pm #3571245
Brad PBPL Member
I printed out the list of activities and asked our crew to mark the ones that interest them. I’m going to look through the treks that seem to hit the most of those and go back to the crew with those treks. I’ll ask them to prioritize and factor in the difficulty of the hikes.
I do not want to deal with the mules. I’m sure many times they’re great, but I’ve talked to scouters who strongly discouraged taking a mule trek. Also, the ATVs could be fun, but the 1 trek with them is the low mileage one that I don’t think our crew would want based on talking with them.Jan 3, 2019 at 8:10 pm #3571279
Jeffrey PetersBPL Member
Our scouts decided on the activities that they wanted to do and they researched which treks met as many of those requirements. Our scouts wanted to do a lot of shooting sports. Each scout recommended three options. It was also recommended to them by Philmont Alumni that they choose a trek that goes over Baldy, Tooth or Philips. They then took the top three recommendations and vote and ranked the top three. It ended up being Trek 14.Jan 3, 2019 at 9:45 pm #3571309
Bob ShuffBPL Member
I published the trek list link and printed out the comparison charts. I doubt anyone spent more than 5 minutes before our meeting. We had 2 crews that quickly divided themselves into medium and hard. The hard crew only considered treks that included Baldy and other peaks. They got their second choice, #20 if I recall. The more moderate crew discussed the programs more and all voted for their top 5 or 6. The top 3 were obvious. Although I could have walked them through the logical tradeoffs, few would have listened. I’m proud they made their own choices. They got their first choice, #10.
I’m looking forward to trying this again in 2020.Jan 4, 2019 at 2:14 pm #3571432
Thanks all for the ideas! I like the spreadsheet that Kevin linked to, however it hasn’t been updated for 2019. Itinerary selection is much earlier this year, January 28th, than in past years.
I decided to print out a list of programs and have each Scout rank their top 10, with “10” being their favorite. Then we’ll add up scores for all the programs to determine the top 6 scores. With that information they can look at the program matrix that Philmont provides and narrow things down.
We’ll see how it goes!Jan 4, 2019 at 5:43 pm #3571464
KEVIN WBPL Member
I emailed the creator of the spreadsheet I linked to and he responsed already (below). Sounds like you may be able to use it for 2019 pretty soon. What a great person to take such and interest in helping others to get the most out of thier Treks.
I’ve been working on the updated version of the survey form and the spreadsheet. Due to some of the structural changes for this summer, I’ve been waiting for some data from Philmont. I’ll probably upload a version without it so people can get started — it doesn’t impact the selection process. What’s taking time now is verifying the “Programs Included in Itineraries” cross reference. The one in the TREKS book is has a lot of errors — when I was writing the TREKS book this page was the most difficult to create — it has to be done manually by someone who understands the itineraries and knows the ranch. I’m going to add a worksheet to the spreadsheet so you can print the updated one and I’ll send it to Fran when I have it done.
There are significant changes this summer due to the 27,000 acres burned in the Ute Park fire which basically followed US-64 through the middle of Philmont. There are north itineraries and south itineraries but none that traverse the burn area — no itineraries hike Baldy & the Tooth of Time (you can do a side-hike up the Tooth on your return to base camp if you do a north itinerary — let me know if you want information about this). There are also new camps on neighbor’s properties—they have allowed Philmont to use their land so we can accommodate a full load of campers.
As soon as I get the survey form & spreadsheet ready, I’ll upload them. I’ll send you an email when I’ve done it. Hopefully this will be in the next day or so. If there is anything I can do to help you prepare for your trek please don’t hesitate to contact me.Jan 4, 2019 at 6:00 pm #3571468
Awesome, thank you Kevin!Jan 4, 2019 at 7:16 pm #3571486
David YBPL Member
@moonshineLocale: Mid Tenn
I suppose ranking trek selection by which program features (activities) are most popular is a good way to do it. Though most trek have similar program features, some just have more. The more program features (and staffed camps) a trek has the less strenuous and solitude camps the trek will have. Likewise, the more strenuous the trek the less program features and more solitude it will have.
So the other side of picking treks with lots of program features is picking treks with lots of challenge, solitude camps and bagging peaks. Some crews may want more challenge and solitude and less crowded staffed camps with program features.Jan 5, 2019 at 1:13 am #3571541
Brad PBPL Member
Knowing our crew, they would prefer more staffed camps and less solitude. That’s the opposite of me, but of course it’s for them, not me.
I will ask them to not just go for what’s easy, but in the end, it’s what they choose and what will make it the best experience for them.Jan 5, 2019 at 6:34 am #3571570
Bruce TolleyBPL Member
@btolleyLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
in addition to David’s comments
Other criteria include:
–number of hot showers (for the adults especially)
–number of chuck wagon dinners (hot food cooked by someone else) at the staffed camps
For our crew, the Crew chief and I developed a list of all the possible criteria, then the Scouts voted (Chicago rules) to create a list of the top criteria. Then the Scouts down selected a short list itineraries based on the Scout-created list of criteria. If I remember correctly, one key filter was that they wanted as many opportunities to shoot firearms as possible. There were some surprises: the crew was not interested in ending at the Tooth of Time, the crew wanted to pass some high points (aka peaks), and the crew wanted showers.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.