How critical is AWD for getting to trailheads and dispersed campsites?

[Jerry Adams]

nice videos, very clear, thanks

hmmm… youtube learn engineering channel… thanks a lot, now I could spend all afternoon…

it’s amazing that people figured that all out

[David Thomas]

“staying in 2WD off-road and, if I get stuck, using 4WD to get back out”

Yup.  I’ve long considered that the most helpful use of 4WD.

Otherwise, it just enables you to get stuck further out there.

[HkNewman]

Many trailheads a regular vehicle is fine, but the more 2-3 day backpacks you do there’ll be an increasing possibility that a higher clearance 4WD could be needed if you are one of the drivers (disclosure: I gave up on that game when our caravan had to cross a pass requiring one tire hanging over a cliff).

Another idea is rent a 4WD (like a Jeep) in advance of a trip requiring it or hire a driver specializing in off-road.  Take a look at the prices online.  It’s in addition to your regular auto expenditures, but no buying bigger way more expensive tires, save the mileage and wear on your regular vehicle, etc..

[Bruce Tolley]

“Another idea is rent a 4WD (like a Jeep) in advance of a trip requiring ….”

In my experience, Hertz and other rental companies have a clause stating that thier 4WD vehicles must not be taken on non-paved roads.

Also you need to read the rental codes closely. Many of the SUVs in their inventory that you would think would naturally be 4WD, like Toyota 4Runners and some Jeep models, are the 2WD versions.

If you go off pavement, be sure to stop at the car wash on the way back to rental company.

[David Thomas]

Yup, stopping at the car wash on the way back is well worth the $8 to avoid any extra scrutiny.

Also, if the sides have scraps from branches that took the red, black or blue paint down to the white undercoat, then a red, black or blue sharpie does an impressive job of touching that up.  Well worth the $3-$10 at a Walmart on the way back, IME.

And, in that vein, they’ll charge you $50-$75-$100 for a rock chip in the window.  UV-initiated epoxy repair kits are only $10 (also available at Walmart).

Apply in the shade of a bulding or gas station canopy, pull out into the sun for a few minutes and you’re done.  I’ve travelled with such a repair kit in my checked bag at times.

Continuing on in the use and abuse of rental cars, I HATE that they have both huge remote keys, plus the valet key, plus a big plastic tag with all the car’s info on it.  If I’ve got the car for a week, I just want ONE key in my pocket (I’m UL, after all).  So I bring a big split ring, or, actually, I buy 20 of these every few years for $2 (yeah, 20 for $2):

and I go to that Walmart on my way OUT of town (buy some veggies, a roll of paper towels, butane fuel, etc), go to the tool aisle, use a pair of snips or dykes to cut the crimped cable they put on the bundle of keys, and replace it with the threaded, 10-cent one before I return the car.

[lisa r]

Thanks for everyone’s input. After months of debate and research I’ve decided to stick with the Forester for now. She’s still pretty young and it seems silly to pay a bunch of money now on something different. I’m going to invest in some racks to make transporting gear easier build a sleeping platform and call it good. In a few years when it’s time for a new car that’ll be the time to make a change, if I’m still looking for a change. Maybe by then there will be a new perfect option that burns zero gas and can get to even the burliest of trailheads.

Now to go kill some hours learning engineering on YouTube…

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

@ Diane

“For the drive to White Mountain, after a few failed attempts up this one hill, I loaded a bunch of heavy rocks in the back and then burned the clutch up to the top.”

I do not recall the drive being that difficult. Was this during the time of the year then the gate is open and you can drive further in?

No it was just a bit past the turnoff to the last grove everybody goes to.

 

[BlackHatGuy]

@lisina10: Depending on how a Forester is built, you might want to look at pulling the back seats before building your platform. This could give you more storage, underneath the platform.

And while pricey, Front Runner Slimline II racks are pretty nice, I put one on my Rav. I prefer flat racks, which this is. Lower profile and all.

[bradmacmt]

If you can find one, the Honda Element is one of the least appreciated and practical vehicles ever to come out of Japan, and would perfectly meet your requirements…

[Kattt]

My coworker has a Honda Element and loves it for town driving and shopping. Parked next to my Forester it has quite a bit  less clearance so probably not what you want if navigating around rocks.

[Rex Sanders]

Late to the party, but I owned an F-250 4×4 with compound low and locking hubs for about 20 years, bought mostly to access steep muddy whitewater rafting “roads” during mud season, plus some adventures in the desert.

Concluded that 4×4 plus all the rest let me get stuck about 50 yards further down the road, not much further than I could drive my old VW Bus. And a LOT harder to get unstuck. Maybe I needed more training.

My RWD Tacoma with shell has taken me everywhere I’ve wanted to go for about a decade now. When in doubt, I add weight over the rear axle and lower the tire pressure some. Also, carry a shovel, hand winch plus mallet and long beefy stakes (e.g. cutoff rebar or metal fence posts), air compressor, and traction aids to put under the wheels.

What these vehicles had in common was lots of ground clearance. Essential, as others have said.

Tacoma vs wife’s Subaru Outback AWD for sketchy roads? I’d take the Taco plus get-me-outta-here gear every time. And lots more room for sleeping with junk in the back.

YMMV tremendously, if that isn’t obvious by now.

— Rex

PS – I literally doubled my gas mileage going from the F-250 to the Tacoma.

[Dave @ Oware]

Grew up driving a 2WD full sized pickup and learned a lot about getting unstuck when following my friends in their 4wds for fun. Shovel, tow straps (more than one), come-along, jack, link tire chains, traction mats, large bow saw, axe. If I hadn’t had the clearance, I wouldn’t have had a chance on some of the little roads, but with big link tire chains and low gear sometimes would be the only one who could break trail in crusty deep snow or climb a steep frozen ocean forest service road. Never failed to piss off the guys with the expensive trucks. Putting on tire chains is a cold messy hassle, but they really work. Even in sand. My uncle used to race dune buggies before they had proper sand tires and they used tire chains for the hill climb races.

Clearance all the way. As others have said, bring gear to get unstuck.

Little SUV’s have little engines and no low range so even if you have the traction they can bog down on a steep climb. Sometimes it is worth it to scout on foot to know where you can to turn around etc.

If you are really miles out there, bring someone else in another vehicle. Or a least a mountain bike to get help.

[Jim C]

Not germane to your question, but related to automotive engineering, is this 1937 film from GM that explains how a differential works.

You’ve got to love the narrator’s enthusiasm when he says “it’s called the differential.”

[Kattt]

^^^ I almost posted that one too!

[Mark Wetherington]

If you can find one, the Honda Element is one of the least appreciated and practical vehicles ever to come out of Japan, and would perfectly meet your requirements…

I’ve got an Element and while I love so many things about it — the roomy interior (perfect for sleeping in the car when car camping), easy to clean, good handling in snow, etc. — the clearance is a major limitation. For several of the trailheads I go to in western Montana and Idaho, the clearance just isn’t high enough to not have to stop and kick rocks out of the way frequently. Just a few more inches would’ve made a huge difference. The difference between where an Element can go and a Forrester can go is not insignificant.

[BlackHatGuy]

“Just a few more inches would’ve made a huge difference.”

You can get a 3″ lift kit for the Element.

[Jerry Adams]

I liked the one about the Tesla valve.  Fluid goes through one way unimpeded, the other way just barely.  No moving parts.

[Jerry Adams]

I wonder if adding 3 inch lift to Element would ruin it’s drivability

[Mark Wetherington]

You can get a 3″ lift kit for the Element.

Yeah, I’ve considered this but at the stage in life the vehicle is in now I’d worry about putting that lift on and then not having it long enough to get much return on the upgrade. Probably should’ve done it when I bought it, but live and learn. I’m also not much into modifications in general and prefer to just buy the right tool for the job in the beginning. I’m also stubborn and averse to spending money when things are “good enough”.

[Ian]

Sounds like the OP is sticking with the Forester which is what I would’ve recommended.

You can get the Sienna in AWD.  FSA recently announced that they are also going to offer their Chrysler minivan in AWD too.  I *believe* the FSA van offers stow and go seating.

One of the very best things you can do for any vehicle you’d like to take off-road is to get the smallest wheel you can that will clear your brake calipers and then mount the largest tire on it that will not rub or hit your vehicle on bumps or sharp turns.  What you’re hoping for is a tire that gives you the maximum amount of sidewall and something you can air down when off-road. If you do decide to buy new wheels for your vehicle, do your research on the offset of the wheel and what it will do to your clearance.

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSZMrptknFznPlorx1LAedH-GP6vH9iRrmCp0xvuVTFdgkJp9Fopf00aAo-MEALw_wcB&techid=101&ef_id=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSZMrptknFznPlorx1LAedH-GP6vH9iRrmCp0xvuVTFdgkJp9Fopf00aAo-MEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820921610!e!!g!!wheel%20offset&gclsrc=aw.ds

Airing down your tires will offer a couple of benefits, 1) it softens the ride, and 2) it increases the size of the footprint of your tire that’s in contact with the ground which provides better traction.  You’ll need to do your homework on what tire pressures are acceptable for your vehicle weight, tire size, and wheel size.

What you air down for the dirt, you must top back off for the highway.  I would buy a 12-volt air compressor that has a duty cycle that’s capable of topping off multiple tires.  Many/most of the cheapie air compressors are fine for adding 10 PSI to a single tire but will overheat if you try to do more than that.

It’s still new to me so I can’t recommend it until I’ve put more miles on it, but Smittybilt has a 5.65 cubic feet per minute air compressor on Amazon for $144 and a 2.54 CFM air compressor for $102.  I also own an ARB compressor that’s bolted into my engine compartment that’s well regarded but more expensive.  Viair is another option.  Just do your research on the duty cycle for any of them and make sure they’re up to the task.

If you are interested in the Smittybilt, I’m in the process of making a couple of upgrades to it that will *hopefully* optimize airing up/down my tires.  I can respond later to what they were and if the juice was worth the squeeze.

Tires are one of the best upgrades worth investing in.  It’s hard not to recommend BFG KO2s to most people.  They aren’t as capable in the mud as a mud-terrain tire, but they are a good all-rounder.  Besides the great traction, they have great sidewall protection.  They are also a winter rated traction tire.  The only downside is that they will probably reduce your fuel economy some, but you should notice a traction improvement off road if you’re currently running all-season tires.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSaTt8nlYQ-wevIshylkZ7p6EaB9ZWt1y7kKoXoOkfEgOhJfLCvQCyoaAkbpEALw_wcB&techid=341&ef_id=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSaTt8nlYQ-wevIshylkZ7p6EaB9ZWt1y7kKoXoOkfEgOhJfLCvQCyoaAkbpEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354773040859!b!!g!!+snowflake%20+tire&gclsrc=aw.ds

Lastly, Soft Roading the West is an active YouTuber and I believe he is driving a Forester.  He runs BFG KO2s on his vehicle and discusses the pros and cons of that decision, and his thoughts on his lift kit.

[Dave @ Oware]

Some of the little portable jumpstart batteries now have a compressor built in.

I have used a large mountain bike pump with a tire patch kit when I got a second flat from grader iron curls in the Saline Valley. Hand tools are more work but don’t run down, don’t cost much to replace if stolen.

[Rex Sanders]

Old pre-NPS Saline Valley memories:

Got my VW bus totally airborne for a couple yards on the north road, after hitting a hard-to-see speed-bump-like-thingy at high speed, since many miles before that were flat smooth dirt. Three people and lots of camping gear inside, mountain bikes hanging off the back – miraculously no damage found after carefully slowing down and inspecting. Reduced speed after that.

On another trip in I took a wrong turn into deep loose sand. Knew better than to slow down, so floored it (relatively speaking with that muscular 67 hp engine) and fishtailed until we got to firmer ground. Carefully watched for subtle surface changes after that.

Learning to drive in adverse conditions is often a trial-and-error process.

— Rex

PS – And then there was that night hanging in the warm springs that we got a UFO-style light show from very low-flying Navy jets out of China Lake. Suddenly understood where many sightings might have come from.

[lisa r]

That’s good info re tires. It’s a bummer that about 1.5 years ago I got new tires and decided against the burlier ones because I was skeptical at the time tires could make much of a difference. Oh well. Fortunately in the PNW we have a lot of soil, so our roads here aren’t as bad as ones I’ve experienced in more arid parts of the west.

[Ian]

We traded in our RAV4 this year and I’ve never owned a Subaru AWD (our son owns an FRS), but it seems like your vehicle is pretty comparable to the RAV4.

The Jeep I own now is no doubt a much more capable off-road vehicle than our RAV4 was, it also gets 12 mpg, isn’t as comfortable, isn’t as reliable, etc, etc.

In its stock configuration and with all season, not all-terrain tires, AWD crossover vehicles are pretty tough to beat in the PNW.  If you find yourself in a situation where you can’t get to a trailhead with a Forrester, you’re probably on a road that you shouldn’t go down without having a second vehicle with you.

My advice above was geared more towards people with less capable vehicles than what you’re driving.

If you are interested in getting more out of it as a camping vehicle, the YouTube channel I referenced above may be worth scrolling through for some tips.  I think he mostly sleeps in a tent these days but I believe he was sleeping out of it for a while.

I almost went down the Sienna rabbit hole this year with the intention of lifting it too, but the seller and I were off by $500.  My concern off-road would be its break-over angle, but I definitely get the appeal of having that much room.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Check out exactly how AWD SUVs operate in different brands. A lot depends on the programming of which wheels get the power and when that power is sent i.e how much power goes where and how much slippage will happen before power transfer kicks in.

I don’t have a huge amount of faith in my 2019 MAZDA CX-5 AWD system to get me out of nasty situations. That’s why I carry plastic/elastic/metal “chains” in winter and in the backcountry during other seasons. Can’t hurt and I encourage others to carry chains in their AWD vehicles when going “soft roading”.

 

[Author]

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