Help with options to replace current insulation layer

Just now realizing I probably put this in the wrong forum. Any way to move a topic to a different forum?

The light puffy is warmer than the fleece.  I will take fleece mostly if expecting cold and wet and need something while moving.  The fleece might be a good option in the Winds but it wouldn’t be my choice in southern Utah.

Fire can be a problem with thin nylon.  But I have managed to keep mine in good shape so far.

I probably would not take both a t shirt and an extra base layer on those trips.  I would pick one or the other depending on conditions.  If its cool, hike in the cap 3 and have your fleece (or puffy) for camp.  If its warm, hike in the t shirt and use the fleece or puffy at night.

Another option would be to add a down vest.  Borah and Luke’s Ultralite have vests in the range of 4-5 ounces that add a lot off warmth.  It could work well over a fleece or to supplement a puffy.

general info for you to look at

. A NEW PARADIGM FOR UNDERSTANDING GARMENT WARMTH .

. THE BEST CLOTHING COMBINATIONS FOR BACKPACKING OR HIKING? .

.  Core 13 Backpacking Clothing .

. Dave Chenault on Andrew’s Core 13 .

.  HIKING CLOTHING GUIDE: AN OVERVIEW OF ULTRALIGHT LAYERING SYSTEMS .

. All about insulation .

. MONTBELL EX LIGHT ANORAK- A CONTRARIAN VIEW .

. QUESTION: REVIEWS / TEMP RATING OF THE MB PLASMA 1000 ALPINE HOODY .

The layering system that works for you is, like so many other things UL backpacking, going to totally depend on what keeps YOU comfortable and your budget.  I arrived at my system through many years of trial and error…not a cheap way to do it, but I finally arrived at a place where I only need to replace something if it gets severely damaged or worn out.  Here is my system, organized from warmest to coldest weather…you may find some value in it:

Layer 1

• boxer briefs
• wool socks – Insect Shield (IS) treated
• Thin light Nylon LS shirt – IS
• Thin light Nylon long pants – IS

Layer 2

• 150 wt wool LS crew neck shirt
• 150 wt wool long pants

Layer 3

• Cap 4 LS Hoody
• Cap 4 long pants

Layer 4

• Montbell Alpine 1000 parka
• Montbell Down pants

Shell Layer (rain/wind)

• Packa or Marmot Mica
• Montbell Versalight pants

This clothing quiver works well for me and is modular enough to allow matching the weather expected on the trip.  YMMV.

Thanks for the responses! I like the idea of not bringing both a light t-shirt and a long sleeve insulation shirt. Could a wind shirt take the place of my capilene 3 LS? It would be nice to completely leave something at home if it’s not needed.

Thanks for the articles, Anna. I’d read most of them, but it was a good refresher and there were a couple I hadn’t seen. Thank you!!

Yes, I do find value in your list PastyJ. I should do more perusal of member’s gear lists. Especially people that seem to be in similar climates to me.

Quick question regarding the Ex Light. It looks like Mont Bell doesn’t carry the hoodless jacket anymore, just the anorak. But how do the two compare? I could buy a slightly used Ex Light jacket on the local classifieds for $145 in my size. It’s 5.6oz. Thoughts on the Ex Light Jacket vs the Ex Light Anorak?

For summer weather in the mountains I use a fleece as a layer for active hiking especially in wet cold stormy conditions. At the end of a long day of wet hiking I can change into my dry down jacket. If you expect mild weather during the day, you could just bring the down jacket. Down jackets are many times warmer for the weight than fleece jackets.

I don’t recommend bringing only a fleece for wet/cold weather unless you plan on getting into your sleeping bag immediately after setting up camp.

I’ve been trying to stop wearing a short sleeve shirt in combination with a long sleeve shirt in cold weather.  I always thought it was a good idea to have more layers on your core than the rest of your body.  I bought some Under Armour Tech Popover hoodie shirts that were on sale to try out.  My resting/camp insulation is a 3oz Feathered Friends vest that I wear under a windshirt.  With a  3-4oz down vest you won’t have to worry about getting holes from embers on your sleeves.

That makes sense, Justin. Thanks.

@ctpalmer, so you wear the Under Armour hoodie while you’re active, then while resting/in camp you put on the down vest and windshirt? Down to what temps does that keep you comfortable? This lines up with what I’ve been thinking for 3-season hiking: a LS baselayer shirt while active, then a light insulation layer and windshirt to supplement. Just those three articles. I hadn’t thought of using just a vest for the insulation layer, which is why I’m wondering what temps a setup like that might be good for.

Long sleeve shirt + down vest (3oz down fill) + windshirt is good for me down to about 30° in camp.  If it is colder than that I like to bring a midlayer like my Nano Air jacket. Then I’m good to about 20° in camp with all of these layers on. Any colder then I wrap my sleeping bag around me.

If you’re going to consistently be near campfires, check the suggestion in this thread https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/64670/

and make a 3oz, <$10 Tyvek jacket to protect your insulation from embers. It can take the place of your windshirt too. It will still melt but better it than expensive insulation or a pricey windshirt .

Another option is a thrift store oversized thin cotton or light wool dress shirt (even better around embers) to go over your insulation, but that’s a bigger weight penalty, only potentially worth it for those times you’re spending long hours in camp hanging out at/tending a fire.

@gregpehrson, that’s a great idea! I’d never heard of that DIY project. Thanks for the link! This could be the solution I’m looking for.

I find a sun hat like a Sunday Afternoon Adventure hat invaluable for hiking S. Utah and California,

I used to use a down vest (tight fit is warmer), but when I switched to a down sweater (like a Patagonia), I found the sweater much more useful, especially for lying in the sleeping bag.

I had a hard time finding a windshirt that would go comfortably over the down sweater, after several returns I settled on a mens XL Houdini.

I might leave the Houdini (4.3 oz) at home, but I’d never leave my cotton Kurta http://www.exoticindia.com/product/textiles/plain-white-v-neck-short-kurta-top-SPB62/ I buy it several sizes too big for a loose airy fit. It works fairly well as a bug shirt. You can dip it at stream crossings in hot weather. Of course it is worse than useless in the cold if it gets wet.

Thanks for the idea of the trash bag rain skirt. So far my rain plan has to just get wet below my poncho.

I really like the REI Sahara hiking pants.

I guess I have pretty well described the clothes I wear while hiking. I carry a separate set of Icebreaker merino long johns and a synthetic top and sleep socks.

Here’s a thing I find annoying though – why do people recommend clothes based on fit?  I mean, fit is absolutely vital (of course) but isn’t it clear to everyone that a “good fit” can’t be guaranteed to everyone by the same product?  Like the 6’4″ muscled hiker vs the 5’10” whipcord hiker vs the 5’6″ barrel-chested hiker are NOT going to fit the same product, especially when one has sloping shoulders and the other square shoulders and the third a slight pot belly no matter how in shape he is?  And let’s not even get in to women’s fit issues.  I’m just saying, fit is an excellent reason to buy something for yourself and a dumb reason to recommend it to others.

Brett,

Keep your fleece for wet trips or when you know you will need it all day long and during high exertion (read “sweaty”) hikes.

Try to get down garments that have DWR treated down such as Dry Down or Down Tek. These treated down garments not only resist moisture buildup far better than untreated down but they dry at least 40% faster than untreated “damp” down. LL Bean, Eddie Bauer (First Ascent version), and others make these garments. LL Bean makes a great Down Tek treated -20 F. winter bag that I recently purchased.

Erica & Eric, thanks for the input!

I think I’m getting closer to settling on something to try. I like the idea of bringing a jacket vs a vest to boost my sleeping kit. But on the other hand I like the idea of just bringing a vest as my puffy layer if that’s all I need to be warm for sitting in camp. I think the biggest thing my research into this area has convinced me of is to try hiking in a ls sleeve shirt instead of packing one in my bag. Really I’m just excited for hiking season to be here so I can get out there and test different combinations of different gear.