Question: reviews / temp rating of the MB Plasma 1000 alpine Hoody

Hanz,

You did an excellent job of analysis. My data yields approximately the same value at 29F thermo-neutral for camp chores.

The Arc’teryx Cerium SL Down jacket is 41F thermo-neutral for camp chores.

The MontBell Mirage Parka regression is 19F thermo-neutral for camp chores although it tested much better than similar jackets, with the same amount of down. On my guarded hot-plate it measured 9F thermo-neutral for camp chores.

Depending on your anticipated low temps, either Montbell option is the standard commercial product insulation-to-weight value leader at their respective low temperature rating.

I admit, I am a bit lost on this, however, by plugging in the numbers for my custom GooseFeet Gear down anorak in the place of yours above, it seems quite promising. My GooseFeet Gear down anorak weighs 7.7 oz and is stuffed with 4 oz of 950 Downtek treated down.

So starting at 1.68 Iclo/1 oz 800 down fill and adding 0.1 per additional 50 power rating gets 1.98 Iclo per oz for 950 down fill. Then 1.98*4= 7.92 Iclo!

As far as what I wear under it, I generally wear a (2009) Patagonia cap 2 long sleeve crew and then a (2014) Patagonia cap 4 EW hoody over it. If I opted to go with just the Cap 4 hoody, the GooseFeet Gear down anorak and my wind jacket I would come in under 20 oz though, and I find these pieces to be quite warm for the weight.

i’m afraid to admit that i am terminally bad at math. but the above information sounds quite interesting even if i can’t fully parse where the numbers are coming from.

for math averse humans like myself, a helpful real world question might be: how much higher would the temp rating be for the same 3.4 oz montbell parka made with 800 instead of 1000 fill power?

apologies for dragging the conversation down to the sesame street level.

Ben,

The primary benefit of higher fill power down is reduced weight; secondarily there is a small improvement in the thermo-neutral camp chores temp. For 3.4 oz of 100 fill down, the Iclo is 2.59 and the 1.75 MET thermo-neutral camp chores temperature is 29F. The same scenario with 800 fill down yields a 2.39 Iclo and a 31F thermo-neutral camp chores temperature.

When I joined this site, I was told there would be no math.  :-)

Does anyone have an opinion as to how this Montbell Plasma Alpine 1000 jacket compares to the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer?  I’m looking to buy a down jacket for a September JMT trip, and I’m deciding between these two.

Dave,

The MH Ghost Whisperer, based on my regressions is 2.11 Iclo and has a thermal-neutral camp chores temperature of 34F. Now a big caveat regarding this garment: I have lab tested a few of these jackets and some fall significantly below the regressions which are based on other jackets with a similar amount of down FP and weight. One tested as low as .99 Iclo with a thermal neutral camp chores temperature of 47F.

Richard,

i just wat to make sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying some Ghost Whisperer jackets you’ve tested have had less down than advertised, and therefore won’t keep you as warm as other Ghost Whisperers?  If so, that’s a pretty serious quality control problem.

Thanks,

Dave

hi richard, thanks for the clarification.

it sounds like higher fill power makes a negligible difference vs cost if 3.4 oz of 800 vs 1000 down results in 2 degrees difference in warmth, no?

Thanks so much guys! This was super helpful. I’m going to summit in Patagonia and I was debating picking up a plasma parka or mirage instead of my original set up. Temp range at 4500m. is expected to be 3-10c with wind so, I’m gonna try out the alpine puff you and report back. I won’t  be higher than 5500m and should see anything lower than -3c with wind.

Original top set up: Oasis 200 icebreaker / REI 100 fleece / my plasma 5oz puffy jacket / mb anorak wind jacket / arcteryx atom LT / marmot essence rain/shell. Total

New: patagonia thermal weight hoody / mb anorak wind jacket / mb alpine puffy 8oz / marmot essence rain/shell.

Should i still take the 100wt fleece 7.8 oz or the atom LT 11oz ? Im thinking the fleece… Im struggling because the temp range (25-30c on approach with 3-10c a total altitute and with camping around 8-15c)

Hanz, is the Patagonia Thermal Weight Hoody your base layer? I would find this way too hot on a 25-30C approach. Personally I would add a Cap lightweight (or similar), keep everything else from your proposed new set-up, and I would be comfortable throughout that entire temperature range. Cap LW on approach, all layers at the summit.

Richard, I think you misread the Arcteryx Cerium question – Hanz was asking about the LT not the SL. The Cerium LT should be good down to at least 30F for camp chores (I haven’t done the math, just going on experience).

David,

Thanks for pointing out my error. My regressions show the LT thermo-neutral at 35F versus 41F for the SL; very close to your personal experience.

David,

– that sounds brilliant, I’ll bring a 4-5oz LW base and treat the thermal hoody like my 100wt fleece. I don’t know why this just blew my mind… but it did. And yes I meant the cerium LT (arcteryx got back to me: it 85g of 850 down, with 100g/m coreloft on the shoulders and lighter coreloft in the pit’s. It was high on my list, but ended up grabbing a medium plasma alpine parka that will fit over my small Plasma jacket with some air trap … the cerium fits too well to layer like that over another puffy if I ever want too. I just want to see how low I can take those too together for 13 oz. we’ve been having 3 degree F with minus 12 F wind chill here in Chicago so I’m sure I’ll get to test  it.

Richard,

– I’m super thankful for all your work on the topic!

I’ll post a little on the jacket when I get back some since I haven’t seen much review of it yet.

Hanz

In case anyone missed it, Will Rietveld has a nice review of the MB Plasma 1000 parka on his blog.

Hi All,

So I went ahead and took the new alpine plasma listed above to the andes this christmass. I thought I finish up this thread with a few points on what I thought for folks looking into it.

Ensemble: days were up to 60 and nights down to 15. I brought a wool featherlight aero ice breaker t shirt, Patagonia thermal weight base layer hoody, montbell wind jacket, montbell alpine plasma, and marmot essence shell total weight (23oz, clo around 0.3 to 8.1 i think). I had a lot of snow on the hike so i wore alta lone peak (not neoshell) and brought rocky gortex gators – fyi my feet were dryer and my shoes dried by morning, i’m really happy with this set up as it it was my first try in trail runners) I was comfortable for 95% of my hike above 12000ft.

Thoughts on the montbell alpine parka: super light, really puffy, good movement through the shoulders and chest. I loved the waist cinching mechanism which was built into the pockets as was adjusting this to regulate temp at camp. The placed the hood cinching inside the jacket, which meant you have to unzip to cinch the hood down more. I think of reasons why they did this, but i’m not sure. As for temperature, I thought it wore well down to 22-24F with a base layer and essence overtop of it when sitting and talking, however I did notice feeling chilly around 18-19, which is in line with the clo of the jacket (7.07). I did not notice much much sweating as both the the capilene thermal and marmot essence really breath well. Highlights of the jacket: the green is a really cool color, the warm cinching pockets, the stuff-ability (smaller then a uniqlue). I found a great use for it at night, stuffing my cold toes into the hood and lining the body of the jacket  it against my back under my quilt.

Thanks for all your comments and helpful hints.

Hanz

Does anyone know how well Montbell’s warranty stacks up to Mountain Hardware’s? It seems like Montbell makes a better product, but Mtn Hardware’s warranty is top of the line. Makes it hard to switch away from them.

This is very interesting. I get the math to calculate Clo, but can someone tell me about the ratio for Clo to temperature? I tried to understand it using ratios in Hanz’s example and the definition of a Clo but am missing something. I calculated that for each 0.18 Clo, temperature rating goes down by 1*F…