Are Anecdotes About "Heavy Hikers" Helpful or Harmful?

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/73819/

I cringe at the memories of 60 pound packs. Giant 8 pound pack and too much of everything in it. Never spare boots though.

My buddy carry 40-50lbs of gear, but he is so fit it slows him down.

I don’t find these threads too productive, other than maybe artificially and temporarily boosting the ego’s of those in the so called superior camp in a group think, judgmental way.

Perhaps a better discussion is coming up with creative ways to make ‘lighter tends to be better’ insights more attractive or approachable for those with certain mindsets and habits?  But, then again, some folks just learn things the hard way.  And chances are, while some discomfort is probably common among the heavy heavy’s, there is still probably plenty of enjoyment of being in nature, and isn’t that what it’s mainly about–communing with and enjoying nature?

It seems like a common problem of people, is worrying too much about others do or don’t do when it doesn’t even directly affect them.  As i’ve been there to some extent, i know it’s a sure path to personal discontent and unhappiness.  If what someone else is doing directly affects your freewill and life in hard to ignore ways, then perhaps some focus should be given to it, but otherwise maybe it’s less important than we think and more over, maybe it limits and negatively affects our own quality of life?

That’s why our bud Ken is such a consistently happy and content person, because he rarely ever judges, criticizes, or looks down on others, but is very tolerant, accepting, and loving of others and himself.

I merely linked a thread that shows we’ve been down this road before. I didn’t start that other thread either. Never said I wasn’t judgmental. But you should look in the mirror. That short time away didn’t do you any good. Move it to Chaff, pal.

Interesting perspective. I feel that anyone is capable of lightening their load with just a little bit of research and common sense. There are countless books, websites, blogs, and videos on methods to cut weight from your pack without spending any money or compromising comfort. Anecdotes about people ignoring all of these resources and any advise should be shared…why not?

In this particular case it DOES affect me by wasting my breath when he asked my advice. He asked me based on the fact that I have the experience and know-how and he completely ignored it. It’s funny that you claim to transcend judgment on others when you yourself are stroking your own ego by sharing your “enlightenment”.

Section Hiker similar topic

“You can lead a horse to water…”

Except Chris, that i’m bucking the group think/trend here.  These kinds of threads come up every once in awhile here, and normally i don’t reply to them one way or the other, but after seeing a few of them, i figured i would speak to the pattern.  I wasn’t trying to single you out.  I could care less what you do or don’t do–i have much less attachment to you than you seem to have to the backpacker you spoke of.

So you tried to give the guy advice which he asked for, and he completely ignored it, so what?  I’m married, happens to me all the time. I’m sure when i have kids, i’ll get to experience it even more.

As far as the conundrum (paradox?) of critiquing others and giving advice while coming from a more enlightened perspective–the difference in degree of constructiveness of such an approach, lies more in how you do it i suppose.  I’ll admit that the last part, directed towards Ken, was not constructive (because it did not come from a place of positivity within), but the rest was because i was speaking generally and impersonally with the intent of trying to improve the quality of life of others.

You too were trying to improve the quality of life of the backpacker when giving advice, and that inent was/is laudable.  But, to bring it up now, and try to turn it into a group judge fest, because he didn’t take your advice or whatever reason, probably isn’t coming from a place of constructive intent if self is going to be honest with self–just as my sarcastic reference to Ken wasn’t constructive or from high intent.  Though, in my defense, i figured that Ken might appreciate the sarcasm since he holds sarcasm in such high esteem and considers himself a master of same (ok, so i’m stretching the truth a little here, in that i was fairly certain he wouldn’t appreciate it).

To err is human, but to err and be honest about it to self and others, is the beginning of the approach to divinity and wisdom.

Go forth and err wisely, until eventually you err no more, thus speaketh the 65% enlightened one (on a good day).

https://backpackinglight.com/lighten_your_heaviest_gear_you/

I see Justin is still crushing on Ken.

And there is more than one kind of self weight.  Over seriousness is a self weight all it’s own.  I once carried a heavy burden of the latter.  I once was the serious weight, near equivalent of Jon Brower Minnoch.

Then i started to re-open my heart, and as my heart opened more, so didn’t my sense of humor which further helped my heart open more, and eventually everything became lighter and lighter.  While i very occasionally tease or challenge Ken, that is what i truly wish and hope for him too.

I see Justin is still crushing on Ken.

Usually it’s the other way around (follows me around like my shadow oft pressing the not helpful button after my posts, pointing out faults, making it personal, etc), but in any case, how can one not crush on the cute Ken doll?  Move over Clive Owen and those sexy, intense, smoldering eyes, Ken has supplanted you as my main man crush.

There, now all the world knows my secret!

I like that there are definite BPL forum allstars and they each know each others idiosyncrasies.

One big happy family?  “We are fam..i…ly, i got all my brothers and sisters with me.”

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/61460/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/95868/

“You can lead a horse to water…”

My two oldest sisters (I have three, and had four brothers) had horses while I was growing up and before they left the barn (certainly our house was much more like a barn than a nest….). Karen, the youngest of the two oldest (how’s that for sentence construction) had one particularly ornery horse, didn’t seem to like anybody.

Anyway, one day in the front yard, Karen asked me to hold the reins so she could get on her horse. I, being a nice younger brother (at that moment anyway) obliged. But as soon as she hit the saddle, the horse bolted. And since I was standing in front of it, so did I, no doubt with eyes bulging in fear.

Fortunately, we had a very large oak tree on the edge of the front yard by the road. I darted behind that oak tree just as the damn horse went galloping by. I swear I heard it laugh as it went by, but that might have been my sister…..

So …. I don’t lead horses anywhere!

“I don’t find these threads too productive, other than maybe artificially and temporarily boosting the ego’s of those in the so called superior camp in a group think, judgmental way.”

Hi Justin,

I don’t think this is necessarily true. I find that often threads like this, or discussions like this when around the campfire (which is what I’ve always considered Chaff to be: sitting around the campfire) more often turn into fond (or not so fond) remembrances of silly things we’ve done or carried in our own past instead of passing harsh judgement on others. Noting something someone else did just jumpstarts the conversation and the trek down memory lane. And it generally ends with smiles all around. And a bit more scotch.

To make a long story short (too late!), more wistful rumination than judgement. More smiles than scorn.

Changed the thread title… It’d be interesting to hear new perspectives on this. Like I said before, there are tons of resources to be absorbed by the (actually interested) new hiker. Do people consider “heavy” backpackers naive? Does one put oneself above them? Why would they want to strain themselves?

Should have let the original titled thread die off and started a new one with the new title. Most of the replies here now make no sense, my $.02. Oh well.

Just the link reposts.

We must be reading two different threads…

Have fun.

To respond to your current title, I think these tails are neither helpful nor harmful, only entertaining (sometimes).

Here is my heavy hiker tale:

Several years ago, when I started to lighten my pack, my son and I, along with a friend I have had since the summer between 7^th and 8^th grade and his son, and another friend of mine, were doing a shakedown overnight hike in the Carson Iceberg Wilderness. As we were loading the van to head out, I was a little nervous about taking such a light load. I then noticed than my friend and his son only had a small duffel bag between the two of them. I thought, how on earth can they only carry that little duffel bag between the two of them? It had to only weigh about 6 or 7 pounds. Just then they both produced these huge packs, both weighing well over 50 pounds each! They carried those packs the entire trip with the son carrying the duffel bag the majority of the time. Of course, I did not say anything about this to them (I did comment to my son something like “dang”). Now my friend is an ex-French Foreign Legionnaire and is way more hardcore than I could ever dream of being. I did not make any comments that they were in military fatigues either. I just assumed that he was toughing up his son to be a badass too. The whole trip they were both having a great time and did not show any signs of fatigue. Go figure (as my son and I conked out right after dinner).

Just because someone goes heavy doesn’t mean it is wrong. Of course, there may be a reason or it just may be how they feel comfortable. Who am I to judge or much less preach.

Hi Doug,

Good point, and i have seen that side of the discussion too. Just wish it could get there without the group circle jerk of “we’re so great and smart and they’re so stupid” that also seems common and which i find limiting and unproductive.

Normally i have better things to do than point these things out, but i sprained my ankle a few days ago and have been a lot less active than i am usually.   On vacation nonetheless, ARGHHH!

During one of my JMTs on one of the big passes (how’s that for specificity?) I was leapfrogging with a small group of hispanic young people – 5 or 6 men and women, maybe 18-22-ish?  blasting music out loud and carrying these ridiculously heavy packs with lots of crap strapped to the sides and swinging all over the place…

Needless to say I was quite annoyed (because of the music – but as we leapfrogged I just kept criticizing them in my head for being such crappy backpackers and ruining MY wilderness, etc etc)

By pure happenstance we stopped to rest at the same spot and started chatting.  These kids had never been backpacking before, had never known anyone who had backpacked before, but really wanted to walk in the wilderness. They cobbled together whatever gear they could find – and knew it was crappy gear, but it was the best they could do.  We ended up talking for the longest time, and they were so thrilled to be out there, to be learning about backpacking…they couldn’t wait to get back and put together a “real” kit (as one kid put it) and to “do it right next time.”  I mean, they were ecstatic to be there.

I was so excited for them – it’s not often you see any group of non-caucasians-of-European-descent or maybe Asian folks on the trails – these kids had no mentors, no gear, no nothing…and they were loving every second of it.  And that experience really reminded me of what MY trip was all about and why they were doing it far more “correctly” than I was.