Gaia GPS vs Avenza

Avenza is pretty cool. I have yet to really use it and need it.. but it has pin pointed me on the trail the few times i used it when i was first playing with it. I think i am going to try it again on my upcoming trip..

Everyone I know uses Gaia. The free version used to let you cache 3 different offline map types but now I think caching for offline use requires a paid subscription. We think it’s worth it as they have about a million cool maps to choose from. I really like the “satellite topo” layer which has excellent satellite imagery with a nicely legible topo line overlay. The app is very responsive on my iPhone Xr with quick map rendering and good scrolling. If you have a lot of route and mark data like I do, the Gaia website offers good online management tools.

For folks wanting a basic gps app that has a few free map layers available for offline caching, ViewRanger seems like a good option.

I use Gaia GPS. It has many layers available. The Satellite Topo is particularly good. TopoMaps+ by Glacier Peak studios (watch out–there are a few other similarly-named apps on the App Store) has a nicer-looking user interface, but not as many layers as Gaia.

Gaia’s printing function leaves much to be desired. I print maps using CalTopo. The free account allows me to print 8 1/2 x 11 maps, which is fine for a map for my pocket. I usually print a 1:30,000 for the area I’m hiking in, plus a 1:60,000 of the general area so I can identify more distant topography.

Check out backcountry navigator xe. I’ve been using it for the past couple years with great results.

If maps are available Avenza is great. You get an old school map on which you can visualize your position as a blue dot if you get a little lost. But a lot of places aren’t on the maps. So then Gaia or whatever.

Avenza on my i-phone using a Tom Harrison map was a real life saver for me in the Golden Trout Wilderness recently. That Wilderness is a maze of trails from years of cattle running and the Avenza blue dot never let me down.

Quoting Adrian Griffin:

“Gaia’s printing function leaves much to be desired. I print maps using CalTopo. The free account allows me to print 8 1/2 x 11 maps, which is fine for a map for my pocket. I usually print a 1:30,000 for the area I’m hiking in, plus a 1:60,000 of the general area so I can identify more distant topography.”

It would be awesome if one could print custom maps at the correct scale from Gaia. For a couple of years they keep promising to implement this feature, and then ultimately said that it was too difficult and gave up on it.  Otherwise, I like Gaia a lot, especially since my local map store (which had an amazing printer for quads on demand) went out of business. Instead, I find myself downloading quads from the USGS site, cropping as necessary, printing on pieces of 8×11 paper, trimming with scissors and taping them together. So tedious.

Derail but what about Caltopo’s app? They are the gold standard for mapping and planning on the computer (in my opinion, at least). The app is getting better but not at Gaia levels of awesomeness. I’d really like to streamline my workflow to either Caltopo or Gaia at some point.

I didn’t realize caltopo had an app…thanks for mentioning.

+1 for Caltopo desktop and app.  Great for bushwhacking off-grid.  Currently using for following hotspot progression & weather on the Cameron Peak wildfire.  Layers are awesome!

I have been happily using Gaia for quite awhile. I have used caltopo for desktop and map printing though. I have recently started using the caltopo app and really like it. I have used it 3 trips in the last month. I don’t think I’ll go back to Gaia. It’s really nice to create maps on your desktop and then they show up on your phone just as you created it.

I was a Caltopo user on the desktop and Gaia for mobile…But I’m actually finding Gaia’s desktop app is good so most recent trips have been planned there. The desktop to mobile sync is very easy.

I’ll have to give Gaia’s desktop app a try again

Hmmmm…. the Gaia phone app is good. The web app is a far cry from Caltopo.

For now I’ll use Caltopo for planning, printing maps etc and Gaia on the phone. At year’s end I’ll ditch Gaia app on the phone and go with the Caltopo app.

Gaia on Android (which I use) is pretty rough around the edges with weird bugs.

I don’t really use the phone app much at all as I always carry printed maps and a compass. I use my Suunto Ambit3 Peak to get my GPS location and altitude, if needed. The Suunto GPS sensor is far superior to any phone and will remain so for back country use. Phone GPS relies on cell towers (assisted GPS); when away from cell towers phone GPS performance is significantly degraded.

caltopo for android and desktop + pro subscription. love it

Assisted GPS is just as accurate as standalone GPS. The phone gets its fix from satellites, just like a standalone GPS. The difference is, that when the phone has a cellular signal, it can acquire and store the ephemeris data of the satellites. The phone can get a fix quickly, even when out of cell range, because it already has the ephemeris and doesn’t need to acquire this part of the data from the satellites.

Based on looking at GaiaGPS’s satellite layer, my iPhone (an old 5s) typically gives me locations that are within 20ft of my true location.

The ephemeris data is good for about 4 hours, after which the phone must acquire an update. But even after a cold start after I’ve turned off my phone overnight, I get a fix within a minute or so.

Sorry phone GPS performance is not even close to a decent GPS watch like the Suunto Ambit3 Peak. The integration of the GPS chipsets, antenna design, software on the watches delivers much better accuracy and precision than any phone. The phone vendors build and test their systems largely where there is reasonable cellular service; it doesn’t mean they won’t work but they certainly can’t match the GPS watches (from Suunto, Garmin etc) and handheld GPS devices.

For years I’ve used and tested a number of different apps (Gaia GPS, Backcountry navigator, Caltopo app, Viewranger) on a variety of phones (Apple, Google, Samsung, etc) against Suunto and Garmin watches, Garmin handhelds. The differences are remarkable.

The other real issue with phones: combination of GPS use and screen is a huge battery drain. I’m usually out for multiple days and don’t care to carry massive battery packs.

Hence my optimized solution (for me): paper maps used with GPS watch. Phone GPS app as a last resort for backup when I end up in places I didn’t bring maps for: in the event of a trail closure for a fire or other unforeseen reason.

For a quick weekend trip the phone GPS is fine.

I owe everything I know about Gaia to Luc Mehl. I figure if the desktop app + a phone is good enough for the adventures he’s doing…

For reference ^ Things To Luc At

Specifically backcountry trip planning

Can the Gia app actually pin point where you are on a trail?

Assuming the map layer being used is correctly georectified, yes, of course. Gaia is no worse than the gps system of your phone. My iPhone XR is excellent. A friend’s Android (dunno the brand off hand) is pretty terrible. Both are running Gaia but one phone has a good gps antenna and chip set, the other not so much. But that same crappy gps is also going to cause issues with ANY gps app. Garbage in equals garbage out.

An example of a good gps antenna: when I’m out on our rockfish surveys and we are traveling, sometimes I will relax in my bunk down in the foc’sle. The vessel is an old fiberglass salmon seiner with an aluminum top house and typical seiner rigging. If I’m wondering where we are, I pull out my phone, open Gaia, and within 20 seconds it sees enough satellites through all that fiberglass and metal to give me our position, speed, and direction. The only time the XR lags in getting a good position is in dense old growth spruce forest. Having the phone record my track at those times forces Gaia to constantly update my position which it does reasonably well. If I’m not recording, Gaia does not constantly update my position and needs to find ‘fresh’ satellites when I open my phone again an hour later. So if you want instant accuracy, use a good phone and record your track. Otherwise be willing to wait a bit.

“Can the Gia app actually pin point where you are on a trail?”

Gaia has put me consistently right at trail intersections, passes and inlets/outlets on maps for years. It does so when I’m in airplane mode so I know it’s not using cell towers. There was an early comment saying that phones are not accurate. That has not been my experience.

Just my $.02/YMMV/etc.

Ahhh. Interesting about airplane mode. Think im gonna try this out on my upcoming trip.  Thanks..

I hadn’t used the Gaia desktop before, Wisner. I checked it out today. It seems pretty serviceable. The whole thing seems to integrate similar to the new caltopo app. I think I like the caltopo map layers a little better than the Gaia maps, but the phone app might be a little cleaner on Gaia. Both seem like great options. I should have probably picked one and stuck with it. But I think I’ve switched to caltopo now. Hopefully I can stick with it now.

Both GPS apps seem to be surprising accurate on my Samsung phone. I was in the Wind River Range a couple of weeks ago. We were walking in full dark and had to navigate around a lot of downed trees. It was often difficult to know if the trail was to the left or right of us after we passed the downed trees, even when the trail was just 10 feet or so away. My phone always knew and always sent me in the right direction.

Airplane mode is the only real practical way to use a phone gps for backpacking. Battery use is pretty low on airplane mode and certainly works fine. That’s what the GPS apps are made for.