May 30, 2019 at 1:44 am #3595357Dan YBPL Member
Simple things of life.May 30, 2019 at 4:36 am #3595384
TMI, dude, TMI.May 30, 2019 at 6:41 am #3595396Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Consider the risks:
CheersMay 31, 2019 at 12:05 am #3595511
I wonder why no one mentioned those people that were attacked (several injured and one killed) by a maniac on The Appalachian Trail a few weeks back. I’ll bet the victim that was killed wished he had been armed as he realized he was about to die.May 31, 2019 at 12:55 am #3595519Ken ThompsonBPL Member
@hereLocale: Right there
Page 3 AlMay 31, 2019 at 1:37 am #3595523
“I’ll bet the victim that was killed wished he had been armed”
Sure. Just as the hopelessly lost hiker wishes they’d brought a GPS, the stranded hiker wishes for a cell phone or SPOT, Timothy Treadwell wished for some pepper spray, and the hiker dying of hypothermia wishes they’d added another 8-16 ounces of warm clothes.
And those who twisted their ankle, got swept under by flowing water, or couldn’t beat the storm out wish their pack had weighed a lot less.May 31, 2019 at 1:41 am #3595524
Thanks for pointing it out. I will never buy into the rationalization that you should be defenseless because it is “unlikely” that someone will try to harm you. I am a combat US Marine and I’ve learned through much painful experience that it only takes just one person to be successful just one time and your life is over. And no virtue signaling person will ever convince me to become a martyr for the sake of their philosophy.May 31, 2019 at 2:23 am #3595527Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
The basic problem is that no-one has a guarantee on life. There are just too many things which can go wrong, although most of them are rather unlikely.
Trying to carry precautions or backups against every possible risk is often referred to as ‘packing your fears’. And that leads to a 50 kg pack which will break your back (or your ankle). Yet another risk.
So every one of us makes his own decision as to what fears to accommodate. It turns out that a walker with an adequate amount of experience can usually substitute brains and knowledge for lots of heavy gear – whence Backpacking LIGHT. Novices may need to tread cautiously at first: we expect that.
CheersMay 31, 2019 at 3:36 am #3595538
I saw some points that were made but none of them addressed the central issue of the presence of a homicidal maniac and one’s life about to end in the next few seconds or minutes. I do understand that there are those that choose to be unarmed and many of them adamantly preach against being armed. What I don’t understand is why they want me to unarmed also. Is it that me being as vulnerable as they are makes them feel better?May 31, 2019 at 3:52 am #3595540Monte MastersonBPL Member
@septimiusLocale: Changes Often
Not sure if you saw this relatively recent thread Al.May 31, 2019 at 8:14 am #3595548
If you’re practiced with your firearm and mentally stable, I don’t care if you pack it along or not. HYOH. Many people, often someone within most parties I meet on the trail here are armed.
There are a few times each year, when we’re crashing around **looking for** bears, that I’m glad other people have a .300 Win mag or a .338 along.
And if you’re a combat marine in theater or in a urban street gang or on safari in Africa, being armed probably improves your survival chances.
But the math I do, for the places I backpack, is of a miniscal chance of a stranger assault that might be successfully countered* by a 3 to 4 pound firearm versus a much larger chance of getting lost, hypothermic, or heat stressed when a few pounds (or ounces!) of nav gear, clothing or water would have avoided the problem.
I can grasp that some ways to die might seem worse, say, to have died at the hands of an attacker for lack of a gun or open-hand skills versus falling off a cliff. I don’t feel that way, so I go by the relative risks. Sure, if the 737 crashes, it be a horrifying last few minutes and I’ll feel completely out of control, but I’m vastly more likely to make a fatal mistake while driving myself or suffer from another driver’s misjudgment. I’m just as dead either way. So I fly 80% of the time. And stay alert and buckled up when I drive.
Considering how many people fear flying versus enjoy driving, clearly many others weigh those factors differently than I do.
Go ahead and carry if you want and it’s legal where you are. I understand why it makes lots of people nervous, but I only worry when I see poor judgement or gun handling practices demonstrated
*I don’t know anyone who’s had to shoot a person on the trail. I do know two who have accidentally shot themselves while outdoors. Of course, no one thinks they’d be such an idiot, just as they didn’t.May 31, 2019 at 2:53 pm #3595582
“but I only worry when I see poor judgement or gun handling practices demonstrated”
When a responsible armed person is in your view you will not have to worry about “seeing” poor judgement and gun handling because you will never see the gun.
Still I hear a lot of preaching against being armed. Most of it is done in a rather oblique fashion. The bottom line to all of the preaching however is “I am one who chooses to be unarmed and I want you to be unarmed also, moreover if it were in my power I would use the power of government to force you to be unarmed just like me”. I think that pretty much sums up what is actually going on in the armed vs unarmed debate. Everything else are contrived weak rationalizations all of which fail to address certain realities. As I have already pointed out I refuse to be a martyr in support of anyone’s philosophy.May 31, 2019 at 3:44 pm #3595596KarenBPL Member
I’ve seen no preaching on this or other similar bpl threads. I think gun owners are sometimes like meat eaters; that some people choose not to carry or eat meat is seen as an existential threat to those who do. I have actually been told I’m irresponsible for not carrying a firearm in Alaska! I call BS.
I’ve seen no opposition here, only that guns are heavy, the actual threat (human or animal) is minimal, and one has to weigh risk against weight. Seems logical to me. We pack our fears. For lower 48 hikes I pack pepper spray (human kind not bear kind). I pack my fear, and it’s extra weight.
Go ahead, carry and don’t be an idiot. We do see a lot of accidents with guns here, often children, so my first assumption is not that someone carrying knows what they’re doing, I assume they’re idiots until proven otherwise. I walk behind them if I don’t know them. As you said Al, if they’re doing it right you don’t even notice. I just hiked with a group and one gal (Air Force) had a gun. I didn’t know until midway through the hike, it never came out of the holster.May 31, 2019 at 7:45 pm #3595628AdamBPL Member
“I have actually been told I’m irresponsible for not carrying a firearm in Alaska! I call BS.”
Absolutely BS. I’ve heard some of my fellow gun-owners say this to people, and it’s always seemed like nonsense to me. We each make our own risks assessments, and to each their own.Jun 7, 2019 at 6:35 pm #3596679Alexander SBPL Member
I find that the people one must worry about don’t generally go 50 miles into the mountains on remote trails but that they do hang out near car accessible camping areas, especially free ones. I rarely do any kind of car related camping.
Animals I may potentially worry about (bears) are effectively stopped in only 50% of cases by a handgun and animals that are stopped effectively, I don’t necessarily need a gun for.
Pepper spray has been found to dissuade bear attacks 90% or 95% (can’t remember which) of the time vs. the 50% of a gun.
So to summarize: I don’t need my pistol on the trail and don’t camp in places where I might.Jun 8, 2019 at 1:50 pm #3596784Geoff CaplanBPL Member
@geoffcaplanLocale: Lake District, Cumbria
Only in the USA. Other nations look on these debates in bafflement.
Japan – strong gun laws – averages 15 gun-related deaths per year.
USA – pro-gun culture – averages over 40,000 gun-related deaths and rising (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-gun-deaths-levels-cdc-2017)
I’ve never understood how so many Americans feel that guns make them safer. You’ve lost more people to domestic guns than you have in all your wars combined – including the ghastliness of the Civil War.
As David Thomas points out, the stats suggest that people who carry are far more likely to hurt themselves or someone in their party than they are to save themselves from attack by man or beast.
In Europe, it wouldn’t cross anyone’s mind to carry when hiking. You do occasionally meet armed hunters, and that’s bad enough.
Ah well, each to their own I guess…Jun 8, 2019 at 2:52 pm #3596796jscottBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
“I’ve seen no opposition here, only that guns are heavy, the actual threat (human or animal) is minimal, and one has to weigh risk against weight. Seems logical to me.”
Yes indeed. I put the whole ‘wilderness stalking homicidal maniac’ risk as being well below lightning strike, You can’t pack for every eventuality.
Frankly the wilderness is where I put my fears away (unless I’m crossing a roaring stream or snow field that’s just a bit too steep. And even then I’m more focused than fearful.) Feeling at home in the wilds is a big part of the appeal. I don;t carry a gun in my home.Aug 6, 2020 at 1:17 am #3669336DirtNapBPL Member
Zombie thread alert. Oh hi Carlos (OP). To answer your actual question: I don’t carry ever except in real bear country. Mainly Wyoming, Idaho and Montana summers. You can probably skip the previous three pages of eye garbage. My take is this, take it or leave it: in the field I keep it simple. Point and go bang and for that I carry a S&W PD360. Hard to beat the Scandium J Frames. Shoots 38 special, 38 special plus P and, for our story, 357. I carry 357 the wilds and 38 plus P when I conceal around town (I know GASP). This gun is 19 oz loaded. 22 oz with an extra speed loader strip.
I have yet to really love any holster setup but I’ve settled on a OWB nylon holster on my shoulder strap. I transfer to belt when I need to drop the pack. I keep the wheel loaded and one set of bullets on a small straight rubber speed loader. Gun weighs about 14 oz. 357 isn’t fun to shoot out of such a light gun but I’m not shooting for fun out in the Winds or Absoroka. I’ve carried for 25 years and have NEVER DEPLOYED in a defensive situation, validating the statistical argument against carry somewhat, but I like the security of a good gun in addition to spray in heavy bear country, hear me out. I CARRY BOTH. One accentuates the other and because life isn’t a cheesy Youtube movie, and if you read about bear attacks (specifically Grizz and Browns) you’ll see flexibility can be key. AKA you aren’t always deploying while being the victim.
So I say as long as you know how to use the tool EXACTLY and your compadres know the same, the you’re good to go. But a good light snubbie is hard to beat for simplicity, durability and light weight. Hope this actually helps you.Aug 6, 2020 at 8:09 am #3669348owareusa.comBPL Member
@bivysack-com-2-2Locale: East WashingtonAug 6, 2020 at 10:16 am #3669368John S.BPL Member
Need an off topic thread on the NY AG going after the NRA in an announcement this morning.Aug 6, 2020 at 11:34 am #3669381Ken ThompsonBPL Member
@hereLocale: Right there
ChaffAug 6, 2020 at 12:47 pm #3669389Ben H.BPL Member
@bzhayesLocale: No. Alabama
Oh good, we haven’t had a thread full of a million posts of people talking past each other in a while.Aug 6, 2020 at 1:33 pm #3669393Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
You obviously don’t look at chaff Ben : )Aug 6, 2020 at 1:43 pm #3669394owareusa.comBPL Member
@bivysack-com-2-2Locale: East Washington
What type of Fashion Corona Mask do you suppose Wayne Lapierre wears?Aug 6, 2020 at 2:34 pm #3669398Luke SchmidtBPL Member
FYI our youth program had its second bear spray “incident ” in which spray was accidentally discharged, not a pleasant experience.
If you carry spray
- Carry soap and be ready to clean up if it discourages
- Treat the spray like a firearm
- Know how to use the stuff!
The problem with bear spray is people buy it and don’t treat it with the seriousness it deserves. You wouldn’t tie a pistol to your pack and casually slam it on the ground or let it drag through brush, don’t do that with bear spray. It won’t kill you but it will ruin your day.
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