Ecopak EPL/EPX Ultraweave

[Murali C]

I got a Ultra 200 bag in black – was used for 350 miles is what I was told. The fabric doesn’t look that great after just 350 miles – sure the guy may have not taken great care of it, but, my HMG in black looks like new with that kind of mileage. Of course, my MLD prophet in 210d gridstop nylon looks new as well after similar use. I don’t know – turned off actually by how this fabric ages.

[Murali C]

forgot to add that my XPAC VX21/X33 combo looks like the day I got it after more than 400 miles…..of course heavier than Ultra 200.

[Roger Caffin]

Such delamination will be a general failure of the adhesive used in constructing the fabric. When it starts to fail in one place, the rest may follow soon after. If this happens quickly (less than a few years), I would say the fabric is not fit for the purpose. Sad.

Cheers

[Stumphges]

The issues here are 1) UHMWPE is super slippery and hard to glue things to, and 2) bias instability of the slippery woven fabric ends up putting more strain on the glue/waterproofing film, right?

I just listened to BPL podcast#2, about DCF, and I think it was the DSM rep who mentioned a DCF variant with woven Dyneema as the outer layer (rather than the typical woven polyester outer layer used on the DCF used for packs for many years). This would seem to be ideal, as the non-woven Dyneema strands in the center of the composite could be oriented on the “bias” of the outer woven fabric, stabilizing the composite in those directions (45 and 135 degrees), thus reducing strain on the glue and waterproofing film (TPU or whatever). That podcast was from 2018, I believe. I wonder why DSM has not gone big with that DCF variant.

BTW, I would think Ultra 100 would be where it’s at. The 200d product has so much better abrasian resistance than competing products, that 100d would still be tougher than anything comparable, and even lighter.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

@Murali: What do you mean by it doesn’t “look great”. Do you mean there is damage? Or is just looks used. Woven UHMWPE fabrics do get a bit of a wrinkled look faster than some others so it may look old sooner, but the actual durability in terms of tear strength and abrasion should be far ahead of your HMG and MLD bags.

[Murali C]

Yeah – it has that shriveled look that looks almost like the 2.92 osy DCF with folds developing where your back touches the bag/roll top. Of course this is a frameless – so, perhaps more amplified compared to a framed bag which is stretched by the frame. Somehow like the look of the 5 osy DCF or X21/X33 or 210d nylon bags.

I think people have used MLD’s 210d bags for 5000 to 8000 miles. Same with 5 osy DCF. Sure, the Ultra 200 may last longer – but, I usually change bags much more often that 2000 miles or lesser:-) Which is probably true of most people as everyone is searching for that elusive “perfect” pack.

Of course, this material sounds too good to be true – lightweight, extremely durable, waterproof – time will tell.

[Michael Schlesselmann]

@Murali: Do you have pictures of what the fabric looks like?

[Murali C]

I have couple of images I will share here which I took to show the defects in the bag that was sold to me. I returned the bag to the owner as he didn’t tell me about the 4 holes on front pocket, bottom pocket, 200d fabric and a cut on the webbing connecting the shoulder strap to bottom of pack. I think the guy probably abused the bag. Anyways, take what I say with a grain of salt.

https://imgur.com/a/JrskxE1

You will have to zoom into the black 200d pictures – the first 2 to see the wrinkles etc. The guy said that he has 350 miles on it. Who knows! If it is really 350, I guess I was surprised by how bad it looked. The fabric feels thinner than 2.92 osy I think. The roll top had lot more wrinkles/folds – even the top edge of the roll top was folded in some places like a piece of paper. I mean its not a big deal….mostly aesthetics I suppose. But, I think I like the XPAC and the 5 osy DCF or the 210d gridstop much better.

I also included pictures of my MLD Prophet in DCF (3.5 osy) – has 535 miles (has some wrinkles/folds).  MLD Prophet in Wasabi green (210d) – 300 miles including 175 on SHR. OrangeBrown VX21/X33 camo which I used on most of CT – has close to 420 miles. All are frameless.

 

 

[HkNewman]

A little more on this from long distance hike website “the Trek” if you weren’t doing anything Friday night:.

https://thetrek.co/ecopak-revolutionising-thru-hiking-packs-for-a-better-planet/?fbclid=IwAR1I08caqfLVOAu5Fsl8-I-yfuC4eaNmuBi202a6mnEglweDloiZqV0kMuo

[Murali C]

Nice article….especially the part about using recycled materials.

Interesting that Atom packs is using mostly EPX200 instead of Ultra – at least on their website – even custom options seem to have only EPX200 in the few that I tried. Even Waymark seems to be using EPX200.

Amazing that majority of the industry is moving to these fabrics so quickly.

I do have a Ultra400 bag on order from SWD:-) hopefully this fabric is a little thicker than the Ultra 200.

 

[baja bob]

When I get a chance I will get some photos of mine together.  It’s seen far more abuse than Murali C’s pack.  Mine is 400 Ultra.

[talagnu]

someone on ul reddit posted pictures of ultra 200 pack after a cdt thru hike. a significant portion of the back panel delaminated and the owner reported the delamination started half way through the hike, so just 1500 miles.

pictures: https://imgur.com/gallery/oHhzVbT

looking like the abrasion resistance is great but the pu layer is it’s achilles heel. I wonder if enough delamination means the weave would start to come apart.

[Murali C]

This looks like a Palante Desert pack which is Ultra 400 mostly….that sucks. Their Ultra 200 packs just got released a month or so back.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

That delamination is not a PU layer (like traditional packs where a PU coating is applied inside). Rather, it’s the film backing, which is 0.5mm RUV.

Anyways, clearly there is delamination there. That shouldn’t lead to any failure of the outer face fabric but it does make it stretch a bit more as the threads are more free to move around. There’s no reason to think different weight of this material (Ultra 200, 400, 800) would be more or less likely to do this, since the film and adhesive are the same, but there could be differences due to the film sticking better or worse to large vs smaller threads.

Two theories:
1) I wonder if a big factor in this occurring is that this is a frameless pack, where it looks like the back panel was quite wrinkled/scrunched. Notice how much wrinkling there is on the back panel. Perhaps as a result of that wrinkling over 1500 miles the film started to delaminate. A framed pack would hold the back panel tighter (a lot less wrinkling) and thus perhaps pose much less of a delamination challenge to the film.

2) Notice how the delamination is occurring where the wearers shoulders touch the pack. Since this pack is frameless, a fair bit of the weight could be sitting there and the fabric would be continually strained as the weight of the load is riding again constantly moving shoulders. So you have pressure and movement applied to the fabric. Then on top of that the Desert pack doesn’t have any sort of a backpad, so you have the pack contents pushing on the other side of the fabric which could be harder objects like a pot that add even more strain. My guess is that a framed pack would again fair much better for this reason (it loads most of the weight onto the hipbelt, rather than onto the fabric in the shoulder area).

Overall, for reasons #1 and #2 I expect a framed pack would fair much better.

[David Chenault]

The shoulder seam failing on the Pa’lante might be more concerning than the membrane delam.  Hard to see what is going on but it looks like the seam holes are stretching and then ripping.

Time will tell.  I made myself a daypack from white 200D Ultraweave back in August, when an eye on long term testing.  All good thus far (aside from, as mentioned, it being ugly with any kind of age) but I don’t put thru hiker miles on any more.

[Eric Blanche]

Is the delamination starting at the seams or in the middle of the panels from abrasion?

I thought I recall someone on reddit claiming no delamination issues on his packs that are seam sealed/taped.

 

I do plan on trying out some of this ultra fabric but I’m still hoping for a single sided tpu venom!

[Murali C]

my new SWD backpack made of Ultra 400. Lets see how it does! SWD used Robic 400 for shoulder straps.

[Murali C]

Here are pictures of KS50  (reddit For sale) after a CDT thru hike – contrast this with the Palante Desert pack’s Ultra 400 de-lamination. Some minor de-lamination on the X21 at the roll top. I bet if this was VX21, there would be no de-lamination.

https://imgur.com/a/KQLgIgn

 

 

[Matthew / BPL]

MLD has a coupon for Black Friday listed on their FB page

MLD SALE

NOV 22 – NOV 29

5% Off Everything

CODE: ULTRA200ROCKS

[Murali C]

are they showing MLD packs with Ultra200? I don’t see any Ultra200 packs on MLD’s web page.

[Matthew / BPL]

I think Ron is having fun hinting that Ultra200 packs are coming.

They do not have the material listed on their site yet and DCF packs are noticeably absent. 🤔

[Murali C]

I wish he offered it in XPAC….the weight would be higher perhaps. Yar gear makes it in XPAC and their weights are around 16 to 17 oz. Maybe MLD’s will come in an ounce more with the thicker shoulder straps.

[Matthew / BPL]

Exodus only. $300. Order using the Custom link at the bottom of the homepage. Ultra 4oo for the back and bottom. Everything else is Ultra 200.

edit adding details:

UltraWeave 200/400 Exodus Packs
LIMITED TIME CUSTOM ORDER
ALL Black or ALL White.
1: Ultra 400 back and bottom.
2: Rest of the pack is Ultra 200.
3: EXODUS ONLY
4: 10 weeks to build.
5: $300. Use custom order link at bottom of home page.
6: ALL Black or ALL White. Note color choice in order notes.
7: Fully seam taped.

[Matthew / BPL]

MLD packs in Ultra 400/200

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/ecopak-ultra-pack/

[Murali C]

Backpack Porn….:-) The white looks beautiful. Just worried it will attract dirt like crazy.

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