Don't like bear canisters….don't like to hang my food…any suggestions?

I’m on the east coast, so no grizzlies around here, just black bears and critters. I never hang my bag, too lazy. I just use those odor proof bags inside a dry bag, and clip it to my hammock suspension at night. I’m out a lot and have never had a problem this way. I never really trusted the ziplock on those opsacks, I’ve been using those big green basecamp bags. They’re great. I like how you just twist the bag and fold it over. I use a hair tie instead of the little clips they give you. I use the XL bags inside of a custom larger zpacks food bag, works great and weighs very little. You can even double bag it if your really concerned they’re so light.

. I never hang my bag, too lazy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/teen-details-moment-bear-pulled-hammock-head/story?id=31673101

This kid was on the east coast too and IMO was a victim of others poor behavior (laziness) if not a his own. Your lackadaisical attitude toward black bears may someday not serve you well.

I’m on the east coast, so no grizzlies around here, just black bears and critters. I never hang my bag, too lazy. I just use those odor proof bags inside a dry bag, and clip it to my hammock suspension at night.

East or West, that is utter foolishness.

In places without problem bears, any individual hiker is unlikely to have a problem with food clipped to his sleeping gear.  But the one thing all places with problem bears have in common is that they used to have no problem bears.  It’s not just about you.  Protect your food every time.

But the one thing all places with problem bears have in common is that they used to have no problem bears.  It’s not just about you.  Protect your food every time.

Exactly!  How many time does a black bear smell the food and turn away before they are too hungry or too conditioned to humans to do anything other than venture forward towards some unsuspecting camper.

Brad, Todd , Bob and others, right on…

speaking of “too conditioned to humans” we just got back from a day hike a few hours ago and wouldn’t you know one of those big black teddies was meandering around a house near the trail head like he owned the place. We shouted and yelled and even beeped our horn before parking to try and scare him away and he looked at us as if to say… up yours! A few weeks ago the same scenario at a different section of the AT. I am old enough to know that this was simply unheard of a few decades ago. Sad that we have turned these critters into a bunch of freakin’ bums. Now try and reverse these behaviors that are passed from sow to cubs. Geez…

I agree that habituated bears are a real danger to hikers everywhere!

I have used a canister since one such bear decided to go after my properly hung food.  Very persistent bear!

When I did hang – I used an easy and elegant method illustrated here:

https://theultimatehang.com/2013/03/19/hanging-a-bear-bag-the-pct-method/

It is easy and works well for hanging, but as always the branch MUST be light enough so the bear can’t get on it (the failure I had) and snap the cord from above, but heavy enough to hold the weight of the food.  Can be tricky.

Canister = 2 pounds well spent

Like Jimmy says: “Food storage like it or not is critical for the safety of ALL hikers. The lack of responsible human behavior is creating no less than generations of trash bears on well traveled trails especially where the pressures of hunting is not an issue for the same bears. I don’t know the level of responsibility of the OP but I know what I have seen with my own eyes and if people are put out by the daily responsibilities of proper and safe food cooking and storage chores they should find a more compatible front country activity to enjoy. Yes I said it, stay out of the woods if your too lazy to do it right. There are plenty of examples of physical encounters now with black bears to prove my point. It is not your level of comfort you should be worried about, it is the possibility of the bears you are training with bad behavior that will interact poorly with your fellow BP’ers out there you should be worried about. And just because you can get away with something doesn’t make it an intelligent choice.       Sorry (well not really) but sometimes you have to cut thru the BS and tell it like it is.”

I totally agree, It is our responsibility, and a very important one, to keep our food away from animals.

“It is easy and works well for hanging, but as always the branch MUST be light enough so the bear can’t get on it (the failure I had) and snap the cord from above, but heavy enough to hold the weight of the food.  Can be tricky.”

Or, the bear will simply break the branch holding your food. IT’s not always easy to find a really good hang! That’s one of the reasons that, before canisters were required, Lyell canyon in Yosemite was filled with people who lost their food to bears. Most of the trees are scrawny and don’t support good hangs. Same with 1000 island lake–no good trees for hangs. ETc. etc.

So, again, at the risk of sounding like a shill–a bearikade is under 2 pounds. I think my Scout is about a pound. I don’t resent it like I do a plastic canister. Pro rated for the life of the canister, they’re not too expensive. And they keep bears safe!

And for those areas without bears…

Sleep well Steven. Sleep of the just.

since you are talking about short trips, here is an option I don’t think has been mentioned yet …

the nonstop trip. meaning no camping no sleeping, just short stops of an hour or two for meals and such. these are fairly easy to do if the trip is 60 hours or less (which is basically a weekend trip), and just think of all the extra ground you can cover.

barring that, there are plenty of nice urban hikes where you won’t have to worry about the animals …

Very simple answer, many long distance hikers simply use food bags as pillows.  And before everyone jumps on this as unsafe, if this is unsafe then why aren’t bears attacking you on the trail for you food.  Hint: it is in your possession.

of course, all regulations should be followed and common sense should prevail in high risk areas.

Very simple answer, many long distance hikers simply use food bags as pillows.  And before everyone jumps on this as unsafe, if this is unsafe then why aren’t bears attacking you on the trail for you food.  Hint: it is in your possession.

Why, that seems rational. And when you wake up at 2 a.m. to the sound of some large animal outside, I’m sure your rational self will tell you, ‘don’t worry, go back to sleep, the food is in my possession’ and you’ll drift off into dreamland. But that’s not likely.

(of course you’re also not likely to hear a bear at night.)

I’ve had a bear try to reach into my tent at might with me in it for a bottle of vitamin c. I’d forgotten to hang it.

Malto…Are you in denial about the increasing bear attacks?  http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/black-bear-attack-campers-head-colorado-spd/.  This one two years ago shook me as a hammock camper and father of a teen:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/10/bear-attack-smokies-gabriel-alexander-recovery/71000816/.  Supposedly these guys had followed proper food protection, but maybe the 3 campers that came through that week hadn’t.  That’s why the I’m-not-worried-about-it attitude is so irresponsible.

If you look at a list of fatal attacks over the last 20+ years, they are spread out all over bear country, but one thing is common – they hunt down the bear or an unlucky bear nearby and kill it.  There’s no other choice at that point.

”

Malto…Are you in denial about the increasing bear attacks? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/black-bear-attack-campers-head-colorado-spd/. This one two years ago shook me as a hammock camper and father of a teen: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/10/bear-attack-smokies-gabriel-alexander-recovery/71000816/. Supposedly these guys had followed proper food protection, but maybe the 3 campers that came through that week hadn’t. That’s why the I’m-not-worried-about-it attitude is so irresponsible.

If you look at a list of fatal attacks over the last 20+ years, they are spread out all over bear country, but one thing is common – they hunt down the bear or an unlucky bear nearby and kill it. There’s no other choice at that point.”

It is amazing how there are so many attacks on campers that have followed proper food protection, I have noticed this exact same thing.  SO, if food is not the culprit then why use it as a basis for disproving the premise that possession is a deterrent to bears stealing food.  I believe sleeping with food is much better for the bears than 90% of the crappy bear hangs that I have seen all over the US.  People can chose to believe or fear what they want.  I know hikers with tens of thousands of miles under their trail runners that have the same experiences as I have had.  YMMV.  And of course, PYOF. (PRotect Your Own Food). :)

Malto: what do you do with your food bag when you’re not sleeping with it? Personally, I’d rather not carry five days worth of food around with me every minute once I’ve set up camp. Leave it in my tent while I go about fetching water or go on a little walk to take in the views? In the Sierra, bears have learned to watch and strike unprotected food.

Also, we’ve been down this whole ‘no need for a canister or hanging’ route. The result is that bears became habituated to human food. It doesn’t work.

And how exactly is carrying a canister or hanging NOT protecting your own food…which is the least part of the equation. Protecting bears is more important.

” I know hikers with tens of thousands of miles under their trail runners that have the same experiences as I have had. YMMV. And of course, PYOF. (PRotect Your Own Food). :)”

That sounds like: “I will crap all over the back country without paying heed to those that come after me and have to then step through it”.

If that’s not what you’re saying, please help us understand how it’s not the same thing.

Actions do have consequences – maybe not always to the original actor.

More food for thought……

If I slept with my food and a bear (or another critter) took my food, how likely is it that I’d report it or even admit it to others?

“That sounds like: “I will crap all over the back country without paying heed to those that come after me and have to then step through it”.

If that’s not what you’re saying, please help us understand how it’s not the same thing.”

thats easy.  A bear has never gotten a crumb of food from me so basically it is the equivalent of “I don’t crap.”

Where are you hiking Malto?

I have hiked over a thousand miles in the Sierra plus the JMT, SHR, TRT, PCT, Wonderland trail, Bob Marshall Wilderness, several thousand miles on the AT, Colorado trail, WInd River Range, Tetons, adirondaks, Yellowstone and a bunch of misc trails all over the east.  I also own three bear canisters and an Ursack and can do a pretty good bear hang if there is a good tree.  So while I don’t always use my food as a pillow, I do over 90% of the time if it is not required and I go to great lengths to make sure it’s not required.  Using my food bag as a pillow is clearly a choice and far preferable to a poor hang which is what I usual see on the trail.

So, again, out of curiosity…what do you do with your food when you’re not sleeping with it?

“So, again, out of curiosity…what do you do with your food when you’re not sleeping with it?”

If I am in an area that requires canisters such as Yosemite I have carried a canister.  In grizzly territory without canister requirements AND if there is good trees I would hang.  Unfortunately good trees are rare at least where I have hikes in the northern Rockies so I have generally slept with it.  By the way, I would add that I also am not a big fan of Ursack for the same reason as bear hangs.  It leaves food outside your possession and it’s a free for all for all critters to go after. I would also add that I haven’t had mice or other aninimals ever go after after my food, though a rabbit did run over me near Mt Hood on the PCT scaring the crap out of me.

Sounds like Malto carries a canister where it’s required so I am not understanding the problem here.

A bear canister can also act as a stool, so some of the weight is offset by the dual use and being able to leave behind the chair that you don’t own because you wouldn’t have taken one anyway. But on a spreadsheet you can justify that you’ve saved back over a pound of the bear canister’s weight! Also subtract a couple of ounces for the bear hang kit you won’t be bringing, or even a few more ounces for an ursak that won’t be in your pack.

When all is said and done, it’s practically weightless. =)