Crew size cooking pot suppier?

In regard to large heavy pots on little stoves, rather than boiling a pot nearly full of water we only boil a pre-measured amount of the needed water per the food packages instructions, usually only about 3 qt. for a meal for 12.

And we use Philmont’s recommended MSR Dragonfly white gas stoves. They have a wider stronger wire pot platform than the MSR WhisperLites we have used and loved.

MSR stoves have a remote fuel bottle and supplied windscreen you should use every time to shield the fuel bottle from heat and to concentrate heat on the pot to reduce boil time and fuel consumption. And always use the pot lid for the same reasons.

Above 9,000 ft. our Dragonflys would spit and sputter or go out until we propped-up the bottom edge of the windscreens to let in more air, they are blow torches. So we just cut a row of ¾” holes around the bottom edge of our windscreens to supply enough air/oxygen to the stoves at altitude.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured”, David Young

Since the cooking duty pair is doing the Philmont version of the patrol method, then everything will be hydrated in a single large pot (8 qt).   Without getting into the issues about this particular interpretation of the patrol method, here are several alternative sources to the Ace Camp pots that Philmont uses but still have the capacity suggested:

Smart & Final has an aluminum VMI (Sazon) 8 qt stock pot at $9,  Walmart has an aluminum Imusa 8 qt pot at $14 (the handles make this heavier than the VMI pot),  and if you are willing to try something a little smaller (and much lighter overall) –  the pot from a Wabash Whirley Pop popcorn maker is a very lightweight aluminum 6 qt at $20.

One can cut weight from all of these candidate pots by replacing the lids with homemade ones made from disposable aluminum turkey roasting pans.  The handles on the VMI & Imusa are more of a challenge to shave weight from them … while the Whirley Pop pot handle is fine as is.

Enjoy your Trek!

we got two of these for our crew -https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G3HYZWW/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_NpPtCb25YYGZ5

Fire Maple FMC-215 8 Liter Outdoor Picnic Cooking Cookware Hanging Pot Kettle

Here is another pricey option, but also the lightest one I have found in a 6 Liter size weighing 19.6 ounces….

Evernew Titanium Non-Stick 5800ml Pot Set (ECA429)

I went for 4x of the cheap, aluminum pot w/ lid.  $14, 1.8 lbs. each.  http://www.walmart.com/ip/IMUSA-Aluminum-Stock-Pot-with-Lid-8-Quart-Silver/13370055.

Replace the lid’ heavy handle with a ziptie.  Using a rounded blade chisel, punch in marking lines so you can quickly fill it with the right amount of water.  (You can see the punch line on the inside of the pot and write the amount on the outside.)

Cut foam pad round disks for the bottom and lid … plus wrap with 3 plastic grocery bags and you’ve a monster cooking cozy.

I like it… especially the chisel indents, maybe I should return these overpriced Titanium ones… arrgghhh..

I’m just looking for some feedback…we’ve got a Philmont crew going in mid-June. We’ve heard various things about the Philmont-issued pots including that they’re sometimes pretty beat up but also that an 8qt pot can take forever to boil. Additionally, the Philmont issued 8qt pot just takes up a ton of pack space and also weighs a fair bit. With that in mind the troop is looking to invest in its own pots. We’re thinking it would be better to have two (or three?) smaller ~4qt pots. With 12 people in our crew we’ve thought about cooking in groups of 6 (or even 4) rather than 12 (potential the boys could cook in two groups of 4 while the four adults could cook together). So far we’ve invested in two Kovea Spider stoves but we’re also thinking about getting several of these Sea-to-Summit 3.7L Alpha Pots.

I know the patrol method is encouraged but will they say anything about us dividing up for cooking purposes into the two or three groups mentioned above? Do we need a second smaller pot per cooking group like the Sea-to-Summit 2.7L Alpha Pot or would the one large pot per cooking group suffice? There was even a suggestion by one of the adults that we get three of these Sea-to-Summit Alpha 2 Cookset 4.2 and then not only do we have the pots but there will be troop provided plates and cups. Thoughts on this approach?

At the very least you need enough water in the pot to be able to submerge all of the eating utensils one at a time to sanitize them. Using smaller pots might not allow this. On prior trips, we boiled enough water to cover our deepest bowl and then added that to the other pot while the dehydrated meal. You only need to boil enough water for sanitizing and then rehydrating the meal. In 2007, our rookie ranger had us filling the 10 qt pot nearly full which wasted huge amounts of fuel. We were using Coleman Exponent stoves and the only spots to get new canisters were the major commissaries. We burned through 2 canisters by day 4 and ended up cooking on campfire until day 8. Our day 5 food pick up at Ring Place only had white gas.

We used to train at home with the BSA’s Patrol Kit cook pot and fry pan lid just like Philmont issues but they are heavy and no longer available.

We have since found on Amazon and carry at Philmont;

Chinook 41040 Pots & Pan “made of very sturdy” 18/8 polished Stainless Steel

6 qt. pot with bail handle and 10″ frying pan combo lid,

2.5 qt. pot with bail handle and lid,

1 qt. pot with bail handle and lid (we don’t use),

Nylon stuff sack

On Amazon for $67.77

One 6 qt. pot is large enough to cook supper for a crew of 12. We only boil enough water per the food package directions/recipe (2 to 3 qt.), plenty to completely submerse all our spoons and a few bowls at a time.

We did toss the handle for “10″ frying pan combo lid” and placed a knob to the center of the lid for convenience as we will never fry anything in it.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured,” Moonshine

I also found this similar if not identical set on Amazon for only $56.64

Texsport 6 piece Stainless Steel Copper Bottom Outdoor Camping Cookware Set at $56.64

6 Qt. Pot with convenient carry handle and lid / fry pan with detachable handle

3 Qt. Pot with convenient carry handle and lid,

1 Qt. Pot with convenient carry handle and lid,(we don’t use)

Storage bag.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured,” Moonshine

I will also say we only carry ONE 6 quart pot per crew.

As mentioned above we only boil the required water according to the directions / recipe on the food packets of the planned meal (2 to 3 qt.). Completely submerse all cooking and eating utensils in the boiling water to sanitize them and place them on a Bear Bag to drip dry. Then add all the food packets in the boiling water, stirring to wet and mix all ingredients until it boils again, then remove from stove and set on the ground, cover with pot lid and wait for food to cook and rehydrate.

After all the food has been served and consumed, bowls and pot scraped (licked) clean we add a few quarts of cold clear water and a few drops of Campsuds (it works equally well in cold water) to the cook pot and wash all the utensils, sump the wash water and add a few more quarts of cold clear water to rinse the utensils and sump the rinse water.

This One Pot method saves weight, time and fuel, since you only boil the amount of water needed to cook your food, all Important at Philmont.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured,” Moonshine

David, with that method, let’s say you have a crew of first time Philmonters who, at the beginning of their trek, misjudge how much food to make and there’s leftovers.  I’m guessing you’ll say there’s no such thing, somebody has to eat it all.  Is that the case?

Do you find that your crews eat more as the trek goes on?  I’d suspect that would be case as hiker hunger hits and you get acclimated to the altitude.

Not David, but in my prior treks we usually did not have leftovers. One way to save weight is too sit down as a crew and decide what isn’t going to get eaten. We have had kids that will not eat tuna so their tuna packets were put in the swap box.

This year we have a kid with a dairy allergy and another with Crohn’s disease who is limited on beef, pork, and sugar. His father was told to contact Philmont to try to plan a menu that works with his diet. During a prior trip the peanut allergy kid was told to bring extra non peanut snacks and that Basecamp would deliver his extra rations to the Commissaries so he would not have to carry the extras. That never happened and he never got his snacks. We ended up hitting swap boxes on the trail to get extra food for him.

k

Brad,

That’s pretty much true with this or any other method. Typically you don’t judge how much food to cook, you just cook and eat it all.

There’s no provision for leftovers, there is no place to dispose of it. Your only choices are to eat everything or pack it out.  And that’s not really an option, it will be very heavy wet smelly bear attractant.

In the beginning your crew may not want all the food provided but they need to eat it for a complete and balanced diet. After a few day your crew may want more than you have. Check the Swap Boxes on Staff Camp porches for goodies. Everyone is welcome to leave or take whatever and sometimes there are some real treats.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured,” Moonshine

That’s about what I was expecting. We have at least 1 super picky eater and my son is rather picky, too, but improving.  I don’t think we have actual allergies in this group.

Personally, I’m not picky but I don’t want to eat cat food, er, tuna, either.  I can force it down, but I’ll be swapping that out if at all possible.  I’ll bet most of our crew will reject it.

Chris,

We too go through our food issues at every commissary pick-ups and strip out excess packaging (cardboard) and flavored drink mixes. But we keep the planned menu items because they are all important parts of their complete and balance diet.

The heaviest items issued are the flavored drink mixes, some brands are only flavored sugar mixes to entice boys (not Scouts) to drink, not nutritious or electrolytes. As long as you eat the complete and balance diet issued and drink plenty of water you shouldn’t need extra electrolytes, unless you hike in the middle of the day.

You may want to keep some real electrolytes like Gatorade just in case someone needs it. But never put it in your water bottles because they will have to be Bear Bagged from then on.

If any participants have special dietary needs they are to bring their own food and give it to the commissary staff so it can be delivered to their backcountry commissaries for pick-up. We needed that once and it worked fine.

Brad,

Some of that pickiness disappears with hunger. After a few days of humping heavy packs up and down mountains nutritional needs increase in the form of hunger. Things you would not normally like will look better. I hate mac & cheese but by day 7 or 8 I will eat it.

If you examine closely Philmont menus they are designed and balanced for the time of day too. Fast and slow burn high energy foods in the morning.  Protein and fiber at mid-day.  Muscle rebuilding and heat producing foods in the evening. So don’t fail to take advantage of Philmont’s diets.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured,” Moonshine

I usually mix up the Gatorade at breakfast and drink it as I hike. Then I fill that bottle with water and drink from that at supper. That empty bottle is then bear bagged. I like replacing the electrolytes as I hike instead of waiting until I am finished. I have my crew wrap some duct tape around their juice bottles so they would need to be bear bagged anyhow.

I am a little nervous about having commissary handle the food since they failed the first time I relied on them.

I’ve been wanting to get a Brawndo hat for hiking.  If I could find a way to put a Brawndo label on a Nalgene, that would be perfect!  I guess I could get one through Cafe Press for a generic cheapo water bottle.

@69roadrunner

That is hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFD2ggNxR1g

Camacho 2020!  :)
Many apologies for the massive thread drift.  Please return to your regular programming.

I couldn’t resist.  Hope to see you on the trail.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/71566265/brawndo-patch-idiocracy?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_d-accessories-patches_and_pins-patches&utm_custom1=9a2f2c40-df8f-42ed-a5f1-505edc34e8c2&utm_content=go_304499195_22746129875_78727363235_aud-321441275036:pla-106550413715_m__71566265&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhuSao4L94AIVikoNCh0E0gO4EAQYAiABEgLm1_D_BwE

Pardon my ignorance on the subject – my scout troop didn’t do anything beyond derby cars, but why does Philmont require one big cookpot for the group?  I would hate to try and figure out how much food to make for a group, especially in the backcountry when you have no choice but to eat it all.  The kids that are going to Philmont are big enough to learn how to operate a backcountry stove responsibly and safely and cook their own meals.  The thought of such a large cookpot for any one member of the group to carry just seems so unwieldy.

I couldn’t resist.  Hope to see you on the trail.

I saw that one.  :)

Pardon my ignorance on the subject – my scout troop didn’t do anything beyond derby cars, but why does Philmont require one big cookpot for the group?

Because the patrol method is more important than learning proper backpacking skills and they also claim it reduces waste, but I think you’d have the same amount of waste.  If you use turkey cooking bags for the patrol, then you’d have more waste.

I support the patrol method for most things, but not for backpacking cooking.  Car camping cooking is appropriate.