Collateral Damage: How Tariff Policy Is Gutting America’s Outdoor Gear Innovators

[Terran Terran]

You can read what is in the forums for free. Tiered pricing is not unusual nor is it a tax. Think of a motel. If you just want a room with a parking lot view, why pay for a penthouse view? I think the mere $15 I pay a year allows me to ask questions of the community while keeping out the riffraff. It’s more inviting for those with expertise to post. Personally I don’t need the extras. However in this case I believe it would be a great public service to make the information available.

I think tariffs will have less effect on innovative gear than it will on cheap gear.  There is no tariff on the innovation, only on the manufacturing and material.

[VSD]

Missing the basics: the forum offers a value for it’s price (reading, posting) – and you are free to trade or not

tariffs don’t offer any value, neither to the buyer nor the seller who created that value, and neither is free to chose whether they want this non-value

unless you say you’re all free to leave the states if you don’t agree : D

as a foreigner I exercise my freedom not to trade, though it hurts both me (have to find other inferior or more expensive alternatives) and the trader in the states (loss of business)

[sbennett3705]

Zpacks manufacturers in the USA and charges a premium. Seems this business model can work.

[Ryan Jordan]

Zpacks manufacturers in the USA and charges a premium. Seems this business model can work.

True – it absolutely can work.

But there’s often a tradeoff when you pursue domestic manufacturing at scale, especially in the ultralight space.

Zpacks is a great example of a successful U.S.-based brand, but part of what makes their model viable is the simplicity of their product designs. Their shelters and packs are relatively straightforward soft goods – no complex patterning, minimal cut-and-sew intricacies, and little to no advanced techniques like thermal bonding, molded structures, or hybrid fabric integration. This keeps production feasible in a domestic environment where labor costs are higher and specialized manufacturing capabilities are limited.

Brands that attempt more sophisticated construction techniques, such as bonded seams, laminated fabrics, articulated designs, or integrated hardware, often look overseas not just for cost savings, but because the necessary technical expertise and equipment simply aren’t available at scale in the U.S.

That’s not a knock on Zpacks. They’ve made intentional decisions to prioritize design simplicity and domestic manufacturing, and they’ve built a loyal following because of it. But it’s worth recognizing that this model works best when the product architecture is matched to what’s realistically manufacturable in the U.S.

[Terran Terran]

Made in USA does have a role in my decision making and I will often willingly pay a premium. However that is my decision.

Conflict of interest?

Trump Organization eyes multi-billion-dollar projects in Vietnam amid tariff risks

[Monte Masterson]

There is a glut of ultralight gear nowadays. The number of manufacturers has exploded over the past 15 years, and many of them have greatly expanded their lines. I’m talking literally hundreds of good ultralight tents and packs to choose from, along with sleeping bags/quilts, air mats, etc. Almost too many choices really, a true a Golden Age.

But everything reaches saturation point. A change in worldwide trading patterns isn’t going to keep anyone off of the trail. It’s not like the 70’s when gear options were about 1/20th what they are now. Heck, you could just take the staggering amount of unused UL gear in people’s closets and keep everyone supplied for the next 20 years. This is western consumer culture were talking about.

And there is such a thing as the Paradox of Choice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

[jscott]

 

it seems the brilliant minds at the top of the heap in America have, ummm, reconsidered. Maybe good news for backpackers and cottage industries…?

https://www.google.com/search?q=snl+oh+never+mind&oq=snl+oh+never+mind&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTINCAEQABiGAxiABBiKBTIKCAIQABiABBiiBDIKCAMQABiiBBiJBTIKCAQQABiABBiiBNIBCjEyMjE5ajBqMTWoAgiwAgHxBaAUGWaj4TPx8QWgFBlmo-Ez8Q&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:91fa47f7,vid:OjYoNL4g5Vg,st:0

[Lance R]

For sure, the tariffs, or the threats of tariffs is a concern. However, the bigger concern is for our survival as a strong nation. Our trade imbalance with China is financing their military. I’d hope that that is a much larger concern than potentially being inconvenienced by higher prices for outdoor goods. So please, voice to your congressional delegation that the tariffs or threat of tariffs is absolutely needed.

Please keep in min is that all Trump is doing is leveling the playing field. If you tariff us, we’ll tariff you. There’s a reason why you don’t find American cars and other American products in many Asian, Indian, and European markets. They have been tariffing us like heck for over a half century. Again, Trump is leveling the playing field.

Also, please keep in mind that this issue is still sorting itself out. It appears that some countries are agreeing to a leveling of the playing field.

Lastly, let’s not rush into the “sky is falling” thinking. Remember the Y2K scare? There were those predicting gloom and doom. Yep, the scare sold plenty books, survival gear, generators, and other prepping supplies. We’re now a quarter century past that scare. The electricity is still on.

Let’s exercise the same patience that we would exercise in a survival situation.

 

[Arthur]

The sky is falling attitude is what got us in the crazy tariffs situation.  Somehow, many have been convinced that our thriving economy in the greatest nation on earth has a sky that is falling.  Not buying it. And, my math tells me 51% is NOT a mandate for crazy, drastic change.

 

[Lance R]

Yes, the 70s. I starting backpacking a a kid in the 60s with a Trapper Nelson that my parents supplied. Then I moved on to a Kelty framed pack.

The Kelty store in Glendale, California used to be to in place to go for outdoor gear. My clunker Lowa boots cost $50 and my Svea 123 stove was $8.95.

There used to be one REI….in Seattle. I also bought gear from them along with my Kelty store gear and hiked and backpacked who knows how many hundreds of miles in the Sierras. We did just fine fifty or sixty years ago with what now are considered to be virtual museum pieces.

Our navigation was a compass. Our flashlights had incandescent bulbs. Our clunky boot weighed three or four times what the modern ones do. Our rain gear leaked. The synthetic stuff was mediocre to poor. The stove choices were limited and heavy. Out packs weighed 40-60 pounds depending on how long we were out.

I’m sure I could make my current raft of modern gear last another 10 years or more. The sky isn’t falling.

[VSD]

“Our trade imbalance with China is financing their military.”

Then why make an exception for iPhones but not for UL gear? Among several other random decisions? Not to mention purposeful action against further armament?

“There’s a reason why you don’t find American cars and other American products in many Asian, Indian, and European markets.”

Probably the same reason we all write on iPhones and Androids and use their umbilically attached webservices from one country.

Either you have a free market or you have a protected market. What we have now is a totally random forced market. And that’s not “still sorting itself out” but using arbitrary randomness to force short-term gains, hoping most of them will fall in the desired quadrant.

So what’s the ‘end-game’ for this oversaturated UL industry? Trust that ZPacks will keep it afloat and be glad the Europeans don’t buy off the stock they still manage to produce?

[Jerry Adams]

I think there’s room for agreement Lance.  We shouldn’t rely on China for stuff.

It’s been decades in the making.  For example, we decided that it was better for China to produce rare earths because it’s cheaper, don’t have to worry about our environmental laws.  Now we rely on it.  If they stopped shipping it to us we’re screwed.  This was China’s strategy.

I’ve read that we’re going to back off on the China tariffs because of problems like this.  Because with 145% tariffs it shuts down a lot of imports that we’re dependent on.

If we want to protect ourselves from rare earth sanctions, we need to produce our own – mining and refining it.  We have the mines and know how to refine, but it will take a few years.

The infrastructure bill supports building rare earth mining and refining.  I think that’s a better way to address the problem.

Announcing tariffs and then dropping them won’t do much to fix the rare earths problems.  Although, the president has used his “bully pulpit” to get our attention, that could help solve the rare earths problem.

Rare earths is just one of many problems that have to fixed.  Similarly.

[Terran Terran]

We  black and white TV. Black and white newsprint. Black and white drinking fountains. Black and white neighborhoods. We’ve progressed greatly since the 50’s. I see no reason to go backwards.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

I have been a proponent of using domestically made items – for years – yes, some of it is hard to avoid, for sure, if you want the lowest cost.

I have been a domestic producer – and I only used US made fabrics – because why not support domestic?

Over consumption is a real thing – and China exploits this to a fine art. We as humans always want the next new hot thing (and I am not denying my part in it). But maybe this is a moment to reflect and ask – when you spend money on gear, where you buy it matters. You need to know how was it manufactured, the cost to the environment (how is it made, does it cause pollution), to the people making it (are they paid real wages or is it slave/prison labor) to even how it gets here – it reminds me of 2022, when the cargo ships were lined up, backed up and they had to park the boats all over the Puget Sound, on the far entrance. For a year plus we had ships all over the inland side of Whidbey Island. They ran diesel 24/7, and polluted the waters horribly. The ship workers couldn’t leave the ships at all. All this for ….. cheap items from China that will get tossed into landfills in a year or two on average.

China has had an unfair advantage for decades – based on cheap labor and cheap shipping.

But I do think there is two things being discussed here…and they should be separate things. One is the issues that involve modern gear – and the second is the hatred and politics. Keep them separate.

Support domestic companies – of one’s country, no matter where you live. Your country needs you do this – and you won’t be so reliant on cheap junk. You can wean yourself off of immediate gratification.

Look, even I have had to make peace with that – and it’s not always easy. But the less you buy, the better.

The outdoors are NOT less accessible. We really don’t need all the gear we love – you could hike in leather and wool. It’s more about comfort levels. Not accessibility.

[sbennett3705]

Please, all, stop conflating topics. Ryan’s excellent article analyzes the potential impact of tariffs on cottage-made products we consume. Let’s stick to this topic. It may feel good to use any issue as confirmation bias that the world doesn’t hold your view of a particular election. I could also do the same with many alternative views. But, this leads to discord and lack of unity around the activity we all share and love. There are countless websites for political debate, go there if this is your desire; let’s keep this excellent website free of politics.

[Steve M]

“There are countless websites for political debate, go there if this is your desire; let’s keep this excellent website free of politics.”

I highly disagree.. [edit – Mk] …and needs to be addressed as much as possible.

Sadly, so much damage has been done (January 6, Science R&D, EPA, FDA, GOP putin love fest, etc.etc.) that it may already be too late.

[sbennett3705]

Sorry, I tried. [edit – Mk]  Good bye.

[Matthew / BPL]

Hey everyone. Please keep the conversation on topic.

There are countless websites for political debate, go there if this is your desire; let’s keep this excellent website free of politics.

I agree with sbennett here quite a bit but also I appreciate that this is a place where it is appropriate to discuss the political ramifications on this activity/industry we love. I/we/BPL would appreciate it if everyone could be on their best behavior, stay on topic, and allow for the reality that other people have differing opinions than our own. Please try to create space for opinions different than your own.

Please find a different venue for generalized anger/frustration/incredulity about our current political situation.

Moderating topics like this is a frustrating task. Everything is a grey area and it’s hard to decide where to prune. I’m doing the best I can and (based on PMs/emails I have received) I am clearly frustrating people on both sides.

More guidance on how to approach sensitive topics like this here.

[Matthew / BPL]

FWIW, I am pruning comments I disagree with and ones that I agree with. I am not deleting based on political stance but rather posts conform to our forum guidelines and https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/guidelines-for-discussing-legislation-without-political-arguments/

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Here is my opinion as a micro cottage manufacture.  The tariffs will have a minimal impact on the cost of our product.  A vast majority of our components are domestically sourced as well as some outsourced manufacturing.  With respect to sales, while I do not fully understand tariffs, it seems like our low price point and direct sales to customers may not be impacted.  VAT changes will impact the final cost to consumers, but I do not know if there are changes associated with the tariffs and the net response from other countries.

 

My biggest concern (sorry but politics does play into this) is reduced International Sales due to our current Administrative policies.  I would project that I sell 7-10% Internationally with a majority being sold to Canadians.  The next largest group would be the UK followed by AU and NZ.  While that drop off could be noticeable, it wouldn’t change our business much.  So again, I believe (yes, my opinion) that the cost to International customers may not be significant, the resentment of the current Administrative policies will be the determining factor.  This impact may last for a long time.  My 2 cents.

[Ray J]

The BPL Guidelines might need to be broadened.  The title states “Legislation”.  What the current Executive branch is doing, isn’t legislation.  These are not Laws.  Congress gave the Executive branch the ability to enact Tariffs, but the Congress also retains that ability.  Congress seems to be OK with the Executive branch enacting these Tariffs|Taxes.  Other DOGE and Executive actions, such as staff reductions in areas which affect our outdoor spaces, are also not strictly Legislation.

The forum Guidelines seem good, but if we stick to the strict definition of Legislation, then much of what we are discussing in this thread, seems outside the guidelines.

[VSD]

since I just stumbled across a lot of ‘sold-out’ gear again, I thought it’s another aspect worth considering: a lot of cottage gear is made-to-order and has long lead-times not just for production but because of high customer interest (announced batches sell out fast)

doesn’t solve the sourcing problems with added tariff-costs but alleviates the selling side: people are still buying faster than production and will likely also accept (some) price increases

that’s how trade should work, with your customers standing in line, and your biggest worry is ramping up production without letting your quality and upgrades suffer : )

and yes I’m aware of the stock-binds-capital arguments – still think in many cases it’s high customer interest in a small cottage gear community …

[AK Granola]

Why are we willingly putting ourselves in a “survival situation” as someone stated above? Unnecessarily.

And “tariffs — the literal stealing of capital from both importers and the end consumer” is a great comment. The tariffs are not paying for anything we value; they’re allowing the reduction of the income tax burden on wealthy Americans.

So much federal messing with “free trade.” Which we never had, but it was a nice idea. I used to try not to buy anything from China, like I tried not buying anything packaged in plastic. Those days are long gone and will never return. But I’m grateful to BPL or I would never have tried some of the cottage gear companies’ stuff, and so many pieces of that gear have been game changers for me. I hope they survive the onslaught of the conservative “small federal government” ideal.

[AK Granola]

What I have from the smaller gear makers, some bought used on here, some new:

• Day pack from Six Moon Designs
• Two Tarptents – a Moment DW and a Notch Li
• Sleeping bag and jacket from Enlightened Equipment
• Zpacks rain jacket and pants, and pillow/stuff sack
• Granite Gear backpack (started small anyway)
• Bearikade bear canisters (2! I live with bears)
• Original Garcia bear canister from the 80s
• Gossamer Gear thinlight pad and bottle rocket
• Feathered Friends sleeping bag
• Darn tough socks (started small)
• Injinji socks
• Dirty Girl gaiters
• Ridge merino undies
• Kula cloth

Expensive? Sure. But my furniture is mostly used, my kitchen dates from 1985, and I drove my last car for 25 years. Priorities! I still use all this great gear.

[Terran Terran]

IMO Tariffs spent by a reseller or manufacturer on inventory won’t be passed directly to the consumer. It is an investment and there are business expenses as well as a profit margin that may  range between 20% and 100%. A 25% tariff passed on to the end consumer may result in a 28 to 50% increase in price.

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