Burn times of 4 oz isobutane canister

[HeathP]

I was wondering if anyone had a rough idea of how many burns you can get out of a 4 oz isobutane canister? I am trying to figure out how much fuel I would need for a 5 day trip I am taking in July in the Sawtooth wilderness. My stoves (Kovea spider, Snowpeak gigapower and Snowpeak lite max) boil water in approx 3.5-4 minutes (2 cups of water in a 1.3 liter evernew pot)on a medium burn and I would need to simmer for about 4-5 minutes after reaching boil as I am cooking my own meals. I would be making hot meals on 4-5 nights and coffee on 5 days.

I had originally planned on bringing esbit but I really don’t like the smell and the residue it leaves behind. I may experiment with alcohol stoves some more but I seem to always return the the stoves listed above.

Thanks for any assistance that can be provided.

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

1/4 ounce to boil a pint.  simmering for 4 minutes should take less than that.  4 ounces should be fine.  But each person/stove could be different.

weigh a canister before, try it, weigh after, calculate how much you use per day.  doesn’t matter what size of canister you’re using or how full it is.  I do it for every trip so I know I use 1 ounce to boil 4 pints each day.  Usually a little less.  If I’m low on fuel I’ll run it slower and it’ll be a bit more efficient.

[James Marco]

For 2 burns per day, each boiling around 30oz of water, I get around 6 days to week. I plan on about 1oz/20min. So a 110gm can will run around 70min. Or, 12-14 five minute burns per can. This does not include simmering, nor real cooking. I often do both (apple fritters, fried fish, or cinnamon cookies, stews, etc) so I would bring two 110gm cans for a week just to be sure. I have had trouble in the past with a couple different cans loosing fuel and don’t trust just one can, anyway.

 

[HeathP]

Thanks guys. This is roughly what I was thinking.

 

On a side note: Before people circle back to esbit. I am super sensitive to smells; lotions, perfumes, cleaners, etc… give me a horrible headache and the smell of esbit was just too much for me and it never reached a rolling boil which I found odd.

[Jerry Adams]

that’s sort of my experience with Esbit.  Butane is so simple.

[Cameron M]

Hi Heath. I get about 16 x 700ml boils out of a 110 canister. It pencils out fine compared to Esbit over longer trips. Even on shorter trips I have been trending gas, it is just so fast and convenient.

[James Marco]

Really, you are talking about burn efficiency, when you start getting down to more than regular use.

White gas vs Canister vs Esbit vs ethanol vs methanol vs wood, vs candle are all good solutions for fuel on a camping trip. Canisters waste weight (they have an added can) and bulk (that can is never full) Canister fuels are roughly equivalent to Esbit fuels and only slightly better than ethanol. White gas/kerosene and other petroleum products are the most energy dense you will carry.

Stove weight is THE problem with petroleum fuels. They are often needlessly elaborate. Look at the venerable Coleman Peak I for example. Primer valve, fuel valve, pump mechanism, preheat tube, all to get the fuel to burn cleanly. Overall durability is good though.

Canisters have good durability, also.  But the constant screwing/unscrewing of a can can be less than good. But simple construction/manufacture make these fairly good. Canister fuels: can weight and bulk mean they are not as heat efficient as WG/kero, though.

Esbit is quick and easy but do not produce a lot of heat. And the smell and soot are bad.

Alcohols are light, but the basic fuel does not burn efficiently. I think of these as partially combusted  already with the (OH) radical.

Wood, well, there are water, and heat problems with wood. I found myself carrying dry tinder to make sure they worked in wet weather. So the carry weight is higher than stated. And they require skill to use.

There are problems with all stoves. So, you need to choose and live with your choice. Canisters are about the easiest to use.

 

[JCH]

Canisters are about the easiest to use.

To “easiest”, I’d also add fastest and cleanest. I’ve used every stove type there is and ended up circling back around to canister for those 3 reasons. For me, t’s worth the little bit of extra weight.

[Billy Ray]

Wind (even with a wind screen) and water temp make a HUGE difference in how may boils/minutes you can get out of it. I don’t cool anything… all freeze dried. And I don’t bring anything to a rolling boil. I can be out about 14 days solo with a 4 oz canister.
Heath, I have similar issues with smells generating headaches. I would think you would have problems with the smell of alcohol also.

Billy

[HeathP]

Yes the smell of alcohol gives me headaches. I tried 3 different brands from local hardware stores and they all stink. I had 3 alcohol stoves that I tried out. I sold all of them on here previously. It didn’t help that in my opinion it was to fussy and took too long for my liking. I ordered a caldera cone and will give alcohol/esbit one more try with that. If it doesn’t work to my liking I can always use the cone as a windscreen for my Kovea spider. This is the esbit stove I tried just to see how it works.

http://www.rei.com/product/653343/esbit-pocket-stove

It was pretty inefficient (by design I think) and will give the graham cracker a go and see if its any better. I am shedding 2-3lbs of weight for this trip by choosing a lighter pack/shelter and going as minimal as possible in other areas so if I gain a few ounces in carrying an isobutane canister it won’t be a big deal.

 

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Number of burns out of a canister depends on a lot of factors, the biggest one being if you are using a good windscreen and have the proper stove setting.  Under controlled testing, you should be able to boil 2 cups of 70 F water using ~6 grams of fuel (YMMV).  For a 4 ounce can that would equate to 20 burns and that is pretty optimistic. 15-16 boils seems doable.  Of course, you can stretch this out by 1) heating only the amount of water that you really need, 2) with treated water, most meals do not require 212 F water 3) getting to know the sweet spot of your stove for best fuel efficiency.  My 2 cents

[Jerry Adams]

white gas, butane, and wax all have about the same energy density.  White gas and butane both require a heavy container.  Too bad wax is so dirty.

alcohol has about 1/2 less energy density.  Plus it usually has some water in it which adds weight and consumes energy evaporating it.

Esbit (hexamine) is about the same as alcohol

on a longer trip, the extra weight of Esbit/alcohol will outweigh the weight of the gas/butane canister

[Link .]

Heath, have you tried using Everclear instead of using something from the hardware store to burn in your alcohol stove?

[HeathP]

Jon, thanks for your input. If anyone would know it would be you!! :) I think I heard John Abela say 15-16 previously on his blog but I couldn’t find it. I will definitely be using treated water. The meals I am making will require a boil then simmer for a few minutes to rehydrate noodles, couscous, beans, etc… Nothing fancy. The medium burn on the snowpeaks/kovea seems pretty efficient.

I would think using a windscreen with the snowpeak stoves would be a bad idea? I was always under the impression that a windscreen on them could cause the canister to overheat and explode.

 

[HeathP]

I have not tried everclear. I am not a drinker, how expensive would that be?

[Link .]

I am not a drinker either I buy it for burning in my stove for backpacking, here are 2 articles BPL did

The Performance of Alcohol Fuels for Backpacking Stoves Part One: Three Straight Alcohols and Alcohol Blends

The Performance of Alcohol Fuels for Backpacking Stoves Part One: Three Straight Alcohols and Alcohol Blends

They are worth reading, it’s why I switched to Everclear. How expensive would depend on where you live, I use it only for backpacking and so I don’t use it as often as someone who would drink it and a bottle lasts a long time for me.

[Jerry Adams]

everclear (95% alcohol) costs $19 for 750 ml in Oregon.  If it took 20 ml to boil a pint of water, that would obe $0.50 per pint.  If I spent $4 for 8 ounces of butane, that would be $0.12 to boil one pint of water.

I drink it – no reason to carry extra water : )

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

“I would think using a windscreen with the snowpeak stoves would be a bad idea? I was always under the impression that a windscreen on them could cause the canister to overheat and explode.”

Yep, that’s why I use a windscreen with a remote stove.

Everclear is ethanol of course and in California, you can only get 151 proof at around ~$18 for 750 ml.  Other states you can get 190 proof.  IMO, ethanol is enthanol and they smell the same (Everclear, Swiss Fire Gel, Purcell).  Try the Purcell hand sanitizer, it’s about 70% ethanol.

The bottom line to me is that things that burn smell and there really is no way to get around it other than sitting upwind.  My 2 cents

[HeathP]

Jon, I don’t think isobutane smells at all when it burns. The only time I notice any smell is when screwing a stove on/off the canister.

[Ken Thompson]

I agree with the 15-16 boils per canister. I usually do 12-14 oz at a time. Water temp is 50 degrees or more to start.

[James Marco]

Jerry, you only need about a 12oz PET bottle to carry WG. I dropped the heavy aluminum containers long ago.You can fit a pump to the bottle too. They are highly resistant to internal pressure. I think there was a thread about that somewhere here.  Several sizes available: 6-8-12-16-20-24oz and 1qt/liter.

For a 12oz fuel bottle of WG weighs about 10.5oz. The density is only around .8 (around .78 actually) compared with water. And, even with a spare cap with a tube(1/4 to 1/3oz) for filling, it weighs less than the 11oz. Fluid ounces is a volume measurement, different from mass ounces (weight) unless it is water. An equivalent fuel from canisters is around three 110gm canisters at around 165gm weight each. Or around 17oz. Both types of stoves get about the same heat from the fuel. But WG stoves are a little more complex and require priming to use.

[Billy Ray]

“I would think using a windscreen with the snowpeak stoves would be a bad idea? I was always under the impression that a windscreen on them could cause the canister to overheat and explode.”

I’ve been using a wind screen with canister stove for may years with no problems and a lot of other guys on BPS have too… do a search on the subject. But. You need to use good sense and be careful. I would not use a completely enclosed wind screen. Feel the top of the canister periodically to make sure it is not getting hot. I use a traditional aluminum ‘foil’ screen like MSR used to or maybe still does with their stoves. I made cut outs on the bottom portion such that it looks like legs… this allows air flow down low where the canister is located and yet is solid up higher where the flame is just below to bottom of the pot. If the weather is hot don’t wrap the foil all the way around. If it’s cold you can wrap it all the way around. But until you are sure of how this works make sure to feel the canister to see if it is getting hot. I also warp and small crescent of foil around the top of the canister to reflect heat back up to the burner. There are many other styles of windscreen here on BPL.. do a search. I would NOT use one of those caldera cones as I think they are too tight and would cause the canister to over heat.
billy

[Billy Ray]

If you don’t use a windscreen and it is even just breezy and cold your fuel may only go about 1/2 or 1/3 as far as with a windscreen.

billy

[Billy Ray]

“The bottom line to me is that things that burn smell and there really is no way to get around it other than sitting upwind.”

Jon, key words in our statement are, “to me”…. I don’t think you were listening to the OP. He is VERY sensitive to smells. I am the same. I can guarantee you that there is a HUGE difference in smells for people that are sensitive. I can’t get within 40 feet of esbit… horrible smell that gives me 3 day migraines. The smell of alcohol even not burning is not much better for me. I have changed dentists due to the smell of alcohol in their office… could not sit there for an hour and smell that. And… I might add that alcohol vapors are toxic (and I would bet the same for esbit). Of all the backpacking stove options canisters are the best for smell sensitive people. I hold my breath when screwing the canister on or off my stove and then walk away from the fumes before I breathe again. There is very little odor that comes off a canister stove when burning, though I would not sit right above it and breathe the products of combustion.

Billy

[Jerry Adams]

It seems weird you could use a PET bottle for white gas.  Empty butane canister weighs 3 or 5.4 ounces (100 /200 g).  PET must weigh 1 ounce.  But a canister stove weighs 2 or 3 ounces.  WG stove weighs 12 ounces?  at least my 20 year old one – pump and burner.

Yeah, you must use a windscreen with canister stove it it’s windy.

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