- Oct 29, 2017 at 1:13 am #3499171
Since TSA doesn’t allow trekking poles in carry-on luggage, I assume we’ll be checking our backpacks. This looks like a nice cheap option. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90149148/#
Is there enough allotted space to store them at the basecamp locker? What do you folks suggest?Oct 29, 2017 at 3:07 am #3499188
S. SongBPL Member
@songfamilyLocale: Bay Area
Yes, the basecamp locker is huge. You can put a full backpack there.Oct 29, 2017 at 3:27 am #3499189
Don AmundsonBPL Member
@amrowincLocale: Southern California
That Ikea bag would certainly work. Some airlines will wrap you backpack in plastic and then again some don’t. I flew Southwest this summer and they didn’t provide wrapping so I just cinched down all the straps and my pack arrived intact.
Not sure what you mean by basecamp locker. If you mean bear locker (at least that’s what I call them) then yes, you could fit backpacks in the ones I’m aware of. The issue is that they are for food/smelly items, not gear. If you’re the only one using it then there would be no problem. If the locker is meant to serve multiple campsites/campers then filling them up with gear might cause some “issues.”Oct 29, 2017 at 3:51 am #3499191
I just mean if we used that or some other duffel bag for our packs, can I be certain to have space to leave them during our trek. We certainly wouldn’t want to be dragging them around Philmont.Oct 29, 2017 at 4:13 am #3499193
Ken T.BPL Member
Why not just check one bag with the things you cannot carry on?Oct 29, 2017 at 4:32 am #3499194
The Philmont staff at their advisor workshop described the base camp lockers as about 1x1x2′ but motioned a little larger. They said not for a regular backpack, but maybe you could stuff one in (for reference?). There would no no reason to do that, right?
Backpack in a duffel is pretty standard for flying to a trek, and these look interesting if for no other reason than cost. Patagonia, TNF or at the extreme end HMG would be $100 to over $500 for expedition gear – as they describe it. I’d like to see how durable/puncture resistant this is.Oct 29, 2017 at 6:22 am #3499196
Would a ZPacks Airplane Case work? You can use it as a pack liner during the trek. $65 is more than the IKEA option but quite a bit less than some of the other options discussed.Oct 29, 2017 at 10:11 am #3499201
Alex HBPL Member
@abhittLocale: southern appalachians or desert SW
I’m with Ken on this. I fly regularly to backpack and outgoing I have a duffle bag lined with my CCF pad and then the poles on top of that and then pack if it has a long stay, fill the rest with food, water bottles, bear can if needed, and other items I can easily replace if it doesn’t make it to the final destination. I then carry on a small roller bag with all the things I can’t easily replace (sleeping bag, down vest, pack if not stay, special clothing, pot, stove, etc). I have never lost a a bag but I have friends who have and it can ruin a trip, especially when on a tight schedule. On the way back I check it all figuring it will get to me sooner or later and I always fly Southwest where 2 bags check for free.
Oct 29, 2017 at 11:26 am #3499206
- This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by Alex H.
Alex/Ken…I think we are saying the same thing – right?
I wouldn’t pack my pack for the trail and then stuff it in a duffel, but some may not be able to get their pack on as a carry-on. I recently picked up a SO Divide with Philmont in mind. I’m not sure I can carry that on, and I would plan to put it in something before I hand it over to the checked baggage gorillas – OK people like you and me that seem to revel in throwing bags that could be more easily placed on the conveyor.
Philmont staff at the advisors workshop said they have decent rental packs for a reasonable rate and lots of experience fitting the packs to the participants that need them. You decide whether that’s plan A or plan B in case your checked bag is delayed. Very few people will be able to wait for a bag that doesn’t make their flight, so to me this is a real option to consider.
Given all the gear they provide, I think you can carry-on most except the poles, knives, stakes, etc. You can’t carry-on or check stoves I hear (they recommend mailing these), and I’m convinced it’s better to use the 8qt pots that Philmont will provide for free anyway. You don’t need a bear can and probably won’t bring your own food there either. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you will want to eat real food for your last meals before showing up at the camp. I know you were making more generic examples, but for Philmont it seems much is different.
I think to the OPs question, anything you bring that you are not going to bring on trail (like a rollerboard) needs to fit into the locker.
One other option to check out. The staff told me that many now rent vans and drive them to Philmont – that’s its cheaper to rent the van for 2 weeks versus getting shuttle service for the whole crew. I haven’t checked that out yet, but if you drive in, they expect you to store everything your not taking on trail in your vehicles. Then there’s more lockers for the folks that arrived by shuttles.Oct 29, 2017 at 12:19 pm #3499214
The Zpacks case looks great and is something I’m considering for myself. With many of these scouts needing to upgrade from car camping gear to backpacking gear, I can’t ask them to spend that much. $4 fo the Ikea option only needs to last 1 round trip.
Some of these scouts might end up with bulkier sleeping bags that won’t work as a carry on.
Renting a van is really cheaper? I actually prefer that idea to having to rely on a bus service, plus it gives a great deal of flexibility. I’ll have to check into that.
I’d like to hear what people did for both getting packs to Philmont when flying and although it’s a bit off topic, transport from the airport to Philmont.
Thanks!Oct 30, 2017 at 1:55 pm #3499308
Patriot’s Path council gives each contingent member an extra-large nylon laundry bag for checking the packs on the airplane.
You can buy them for $7.75 without shipping. That price beats amazon.
https://www.laundrybag.net/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BACKPACK_TRAVEL_BAG&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DYSPCOct 30, 2017 at 2:15 pm #3499311
Transport options – I ran the numbers for Grayline charters, renting a 15 passenger mini-bus (no CDL required), Leading the Way Tours, and Blue Sky Adventures (all listed on the PSR website).
I listed them in order of rising cost, budgeting for buying our own meals versus the tour companies included meals. The delta from cheapest to most expensive was $260. The most expensive really was jazzed up. The cost listed below included airfare differences to ABQ instead of DEN (from Maryland).
Our veteran advisors VIGOROUSLY argued the benefits of someone else driving back to DEN, and not falling asleep at the wheel after 10 days on the trail (it happened to them). They also said knowing where your meals were going to happen was a big plus. A little less “adventure” – but we are going to get plenty of that on the trail.
Gray Line Coach Bus $1,833.78
Mini-Bus Rental $1,868.14
Leading The Way Coach Bus 1 night $1,938.00
Blue Sky CO No-frills 1 night $1,959.00
Blue Sky CO Deluxe 1 night $2,009.00
Blue Sky NM No-frills $2,014.00
Blue Sky NM Deluxe 1 night $2,094.00
We actually ended up going with Blue Sky Deluxe 2 night (not listed) to get more another day of elevation acclimation (all East Coasters). the tour companies really look better once you start adding an extra day.
We are getting airlines squared away in a few days (Southwest publishes June through August flight schedule on Nov 2).
Oct 30, 2017 at 2:23 pm #3499313
- This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by Gerry H.
We’re coming from Northern VA (possible 2019 trek), so that’s great information!Oct 30, 2017 at 6:34 pm #3499338
Hi Gerry H,
Is this the total cost of the airport to Philmont options for a full crew of 12? If so, can I assume the cost for a smaller crew would be less (for the tours), or they are giving you an all-in cost for up to a certain number?
What did you estimate for food and gas?
Just to be clear, this is from ABQ or DEN?
Thanks for posting this!Oct 30, 2017 at 7:51 pm #3499351
Ah yes, forgot the assumptions and set factors. These are for landing at either airport the day before the trek reporting date. Based on 12 day treks.
The big gotcha is the tour numbers are for a group of 36 – I keep forgetting at three 12 person crews we are “super-sized”. So, your tour provider costs WILL be higher. Sorry for leading anyone astray. The Mini-bus and Gray line basic bus numbers should be the same for smaller groups.
I figured mileage using Google Maps from DEN to Philmont, or ABQ to Philmont, plus a 10% for side trips/lost, etc. For the mini-bus I assumed (big bad V-8) mpg based on the mini-bus our church lets us use.
I went cheap on meals at $10 a meal, assuming subs/burgers/carryout.
All the non-Blue Sky or Leading the Way assumed staying and eating at PSR the night before reporting date. Prices for that are on PSR website.
Flights were historic-based SWAGS based on airfare at the time I started the spreadsheet (very late August?). Flights from BWI to DEN, except the last two (marked NM) are to ABQ. Travel agent I consulted said there aren’t many daily flights into ABQ, so roundtrip you can safely assume will be $100 higher than to DEN (some exceptions if you catch a deal). Plus if your flight to ABQ gets scratched, there might not be a later flight that day.
All versions included $20 for: the non-Arrowhead patches (Duty to God, Wilderness Pledge, 50 miler), $3 stove fuel, and $8 “contingency”. (I shamelessly stole that from some unsuspecting troop that had their Philmont budget publically indexed in the Google results for “Philmont budget xls”)
Also included in that number was $44 for two crew shirts, and $50 for surplus PSR meals for our three shakedown trips.
Heads up railroad travelers – it seems like EVERY blog/journal I could find about someone’s Philmont trip in the last 5 years have mentioned significant delays on the railroad. A 4 hour delayed arrival showed up more than a couple of times in my research.
Oct 30, 2017 at 8:00 pm #3499355
- This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Gerry H.
I sense we really need to make a separate thread for this. If there is enough demand I can make a sanitized version of my spreadsheet and put it on my Google drive.Oct 30, 2017 at 10:23 pm #3499373
If you don’t mind making another thread, I’m certain many will find it beneficial. I know I would.
I’ve only put us in for the minimum crew size for 2019. Our troop has shrunk, so we’ll just have 1 crew between 7 and 12.
My personal preference with a group this size would be to rent a van. I don’t mind driving and like the idea of not relying on another service. With a larger group, I would reverse that. In fact, we’ll have 18-20 going to Sea Base next year and I’m organizing the travel. We’ll have to hire transport from the airport down to the Keys.
Thanks!!Nov 8, 2017 at 11:17 pm #3501113
David YBPL Member
@moonshineLocale: Mid Tenn
Flying to Philmont
You must have a proper photo IDfor airline tickets, driver’s license, passport, school ID, etc.
You need a soft-side collapsible duffle large enough to fit your backpack with all your trail gear and clothes and base camp shower toiletries and sturdy enough to safely ship through airline “check-through-baggage”. It has to be collapsible to fit with 11 other duffles in your small crew locker, about 1’ x 1’ x 3’, while you’re on the trail. Check-through-baggage must not exceed 50 pounds or larger than 110″ overall size (length + width + height) and must be well labeled with your name and home address.
In this duffle you will also want a change of clean travel uniform and under clothes with shower items: soap and sandals, wash cloth and towel, hygiene toiletries especially deodorant, at Base Camp before and after your trek. Your Class A uniform shirt for opening and closing campfires at Philmont.
Carry-on-bag, you may need to carry a light jacket or rain coat, personal and entertainment items in a small bag with you while traveling. Do not carry any metal or sharp objects such as knives, tent stakes, nail files, clippers, or keys on you or in your carry-on bag. All such items will be confiscated. Pack them in your check-through-baggage. Carry-on-bag must not exceed 10″ height x 16” width x 24″ length and be small enough to fit in the plane’s overhead compartment or under your seat and well labeled with your name and home address.
Do not leave your carry-on or check-through-baggage unattended in airports, they may be confiscated.
Keep all your bags as small and light as possible as you will have to carry them through airports and across Philmont Base Camp and they must be collapsible to fit in a small crew locker, about 1’ x 1’ x 3’, just large enough for 12 collapsible duffle bags, travel uniforms and base camp showers toiletries while you’re on the trail.
Stoves, fuel bottles and lighters must be mailed or shipped clean and dry two weeks ahead of your arrival labeled with your name and crew number.
“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured”, David YoungNov 9, 2017 at 12:46 am #3501146
Only the adults need an ID. Under 18 does not require ID to fly.
Lots of good advice and much appreciated.Nov 9, 2017 at 2:15 am #3501172
Bruce TolleyBPL Member
@btolleyLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
+ 1 to what David said with the footnote that many 40 and 50 liter packs qualify as carryone size. I carried my pack mostly empty on the plane with the contents transferred to the duffle bag which was checked.
You can also check trekking poles in mailing tubes that cost 4 or 5 dollars at the post office.
You need to make sure the Scouts carry nothing that will be confiscated by TSA such as small scissors or razor blades that commonly come in commercial first aid kits
And yes the duffle bags once empty plus the clothing the Scouts might want to wear on the flight home fit in the lockers. I recommend one duffel bag per Scout. I used an old one from LLBean.Dec 17, 2017 at 8:37 pm #3508011
Jeffrey PetersBPL Member
For last years trek each scout had a duffel bag to store his pack in for the flight from BWI. Some had the REI Brand , some had hockey bags. We had two crews and rented vans in Denver for the trip. Having our own vans gave us a place to store our in camp clothing and stuff instead of the issued lockers. It also gave us a way to get into town for dinner after coming off the trail. I highly recommend the Bison Burger at the St. James. We made reservations while we were coming down tooth ridge as soon as we had a cell signal.
Dec 19, 2017 at 11:23 pm #3508384
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Jeffrey Peters.
David YBPL Member
@moonshineLocale: Mid Tenn
If you fly into Denver, Colorado Springs or Albuquerque you can use one of the many commercial tour group providers that will pick you up at the airport and drop you at Philmont and return to pick you up at Philmont and drop you at the airport. On the way to Philmont you can pick any number of day’s stays and area activities the tour group can book and carry you to all inclusive. This is more expensive but trouble and hassle free for first timers.
Or you can rent 15 passenger vans at the airport and drive yourselves to Philmont and back and plan and book your own rooms and itinerary on the way. Some prefer to be in charge of their travel and time. This is cheaper overall even with leaving the vans parked at Philmont of 12 days.
We’ve done both. We started using the tour group providers but have moved to providing our own transportation and activities by renting vans.
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