Above Treeline Tent Hypothetical

I wonder how the Trailstar would go in a 50 mph wind with rain or snow coming sideways?
I wonder what 5Star’s wife would think of it?

Cheers

“IF you were going to have more weeks off starting in 2018 and IF your wife/SO wanted to accompany you on several week-long epic hikes annually in the high country (often above treeline), what tent would you want?”

A TWO DOOR Bibler (Black Diamond) Eldorado with carbon fiber poles and possibly the vestibule- weather permitting.

Or perhaps a Hilleberg Kaitum.

Having two doors on any tent is the best way to manage both moisture and access, assuming the doors (or other vents) can remain partially ajar during foul weather.

Tunnels are supurb when you have the length for them. But I have very much appreciated using a simple wedge style tent above tree line, because I can usually tuck it into small spaces, and the terrain is typically very rocky, making stake placement unreliable. While the Kaitum looks like a wonderful tent, I’ve been in many, many spots above tree line where a fourteen foot long tent space is unheard of.

(Sadly, two door Eldorado’s aren’t made anymore, but they often show up on EBay)

I have to agree: a 14′ long tent site is ‘not common’, and yes, tunnels tend to be a bit longer than some other designs.
However, I find that I generally don’t need anything like that length.

My groundsheet is 2,200 mm long, which is very common. At the windward end I don’t really care how many lumps or rocks there are, because I am not sleeping on them. My downwind vestibule is certainly not 1.8 m long either: maybe 1.0 m? Again, if there are lumps and bumps in the vestibule, no worries. I can stack gear and cook around those lumps.

As for staking out problems: I have pitched a tunnel on sheet rock a number of times. Branches and rocks are my friend then. Special snow stakes for snow.

At this stage the wind outside was between 80 and 100 kph. It continued like that the whole night. We slept.

Cheers

“A TWO DOOR Bibler (Black Diamond) Eldorado with carbon fiber poles and possibly the vestibule- weather permitting”.

The Awanee, pretty much a slightly larger two door version of the Eldorado, is still sold and does have vents (top of the door panels) that are somewhat rain protected but can be fully closed.

I would think that it will work better for a 6’2″ person particularly if using a thick mat.

The Eldorado plus vestibule is a bit over 6 lbs, the Awanee with vestibule is over 7 lbs.

Carbon poles will lower  the weight by 7-9 oz .

I’ve often thought about taking my old Eureka Caddis and adding a 4th pole to it, stretching it a little in the middle by 600mm or so. I’ve also thought about adding a 5th pole to my Fairydown Plateau hydrid tunnel / dome where the wind loads the almost vertical side walls.but mainly to support the 3rd layer flysheet I often use to reduce UV exposure on the tent fabric

I suppose the reason my Macpac Minaret has taken the beating it has on occasion is the small size coupled with a lot of tie downs

Hi Edward ,

Did you use your Minaret as a solo tent ?

Have you had a look at the new version ? (lighter…)

Hi Franco

It is the newer LW version I think UV30 fabric. Was a PIF but it’s OK after fixing the leaks in the floor.

While it would fit 2 of me it would be very crowded and cozy so yes I use it as my solo tent.

Need to add the valances still tho

Roger, the articles you linked were VERY enlightening.  Something I hadn’t considered before was the relative ease of set-up advantage a tunnel tent has in very windy conditions.  I’ve got a few months to ponder this decision, but if I were going to make a purchase today it would be a Kaitum 3.

Those articles really made me wish you’d had success bringing your UL tunnel tents to market.

the relative ease of set-up advantage a tunnel tent has in very windy conditions.
Indeed.
While my wife usually is available to help, I CAN pitch and strike a tunnel tent in a 100 kph storm by myself. IF, IF done correctly.

Yeah, I wish Easton had played ball, but their Sales Dept was simply not interested in anything they couldn’t sell to Walmart (literally).

Cheers

With the requirements mentioned in the original post  as reason to go Hilleberg, I would go with red label (or black) because they are designed for that environment, and the ones that earned Hillebergs reputation. Yellow label tents are designed for warmer and more protected areas and are known to have issues with things as draft, horizontal rain and snowdrift (as you would expect from their design). If red label is to heavy, then there are other brands that are a better choice than yellow label Hillebergs.

The only issues you are likely to have with Hilleberg red or black label are weight, prize and for some tents ventilation in some conditions.

I don’t think you need to be overly worried about the number of poles and the distance between them for Hilleberg tunnel tents though I understand the potential issue. For example Nallo has been on the market since 1987 without major changes and sold a lot in Scandinavia. It must have been through thousands of winter storms nights in the mountains where you frequently get 30 m/s (67mph) and you basically only hear praise. (Our summer storms are less frequent and generally less windy.)

I find this video that shows Hillebergs wind test equipment a bit interesting. They have a modified snow cannon so they can get rain, snow and sleet if they want to:

To get a slightly lighter tent of the same type you could consider some Helsport Pro tents. They are not quite as sturdy as Hilleberg, but are common here and have good reputation i the Scandinavian mountains.

That video worried me. The way the tent was shaking all the time was just not good. Even with all the guy ropes, it was still shaking all over.

I didn’t like how the guy got the tent up and down either, but that’s another matter. The poles looked to be at a serious risk.

Cheers

The video shows how Hilleberg recommends you to set up their tunnel tents in hard wind.

“75 and sunny at the trailhead, then got caught in a wicked driving sleet storm on Hurricane Ridge.  In July.”

I would guess early July.  And I would think that the weather forecast would have mentioned something about this possibility, no?

I too have been snowed on and sleeted on in July. Last time was in Horseshoe Basin in the eastern Pasayten Wilderness in early July.  Six inches of new snow on the ground by the end of that day.

But, like I said earlier, if the forecast indicates unsettled weather, I just don’t go because for me hanging out in a tent for a day or three riding out a storm is just not my idea of a good time.  No matter how bomb proof the tent is.  Some backpackers just go, come hell or high water.  If you’re in that camp, you probably need the bomb proof set up.

Here’s the Northface tent I mentioned in my earlier post:

https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/ve-25-2

@Greg….errr, I was a novice back then and didn’t check the weather forecast other than for the trailhead. And it was indeed early July.

Also, I’m not going to have the luxury of rescheduling.  Any of these weeklong trips are going to have to be scheduled several months in advance, not to mention that we’ll be driving up to 20 hours each way….you can bet your sweet bippy that once I’ve gone to all that trouble I’m hitting the trail regardless of weather, unless it’s apocalyptic.

After more extensive reading I fully agree with Gunnar’s comments re: red vs. yellow label.

I’d love for the Nallo to work but Roger’s comments give me serious pause, plus I’m not sure it’ll work for my height.

There’s a Big Agnes ul 2 person tent for sale on this site. It weighs 2.6 lbs. This whole thread seems to presume that 5 star needs a tent capable of withstanding strong winter storms. But he’s ruled out winter hiking. Maybe it’s just me, but a 6 or 7 pound tent for three season backpacking just seems like overkill. Planning on 50-60 mph winds with sideways blowing snow in June or July…I mean, where does 5 star intend to hike? If I’m in storm conditions, I hike down from alpine regions before setting up my tent. Perhaps that’s not possible in the intended terrain.

I’ll stipulate that I’ve been caught in alpine regions during strong summer storms with high winds, hail, sleet and rain and all the rest. My BA sub 2 pound tent always has handled this with ease. So has a Hexamid solo.

I’m just a voice from the old days on this site when people were encouraged not to carry heavy packs. Sort of the reverse here.

Hilleberg make similar comments about the stability of red vs yellow tents.

The design of the Kaitum 2 does appeal to me more than some of the other. Yes, it is rather heavy, and yes, it is $$, but you could get it up and down in extreme weather.
Actually, I may be biased here, as it does look a bit like one of my designs – just a lot heavier.

Hum … the Kaitum 3 is only 300 g heavier – but it needs a bigger tent site of course.

Cheers

I’m just a voice from the old days on this site when people were encouraged not to carry heavy packs. Sort of the reverse here.

The fundamental criteria is to bring the gear that is appropriate for the conditions. Given that, appropriate gear weighs what it weighs.

Nick, that’s why I asked where Five Star will be hiking. He mentioned the Olympics. Many years ago I worked for a summer doing trail repair in the Hoh rain forest and elsewhere in the Olympics. I didn’t need a seven pound tent to stay dry. I worked for three other summers in the North Cascades. Same thing.

@Jeffrey….legitimate question.  Think Teton Crest, the Winds, Tahoe Rim, Collegiate Peaks etc.  I totally hear where you’re coming from, and I would approach it differently if I were hiking solo.  This is a case of assuring my outdoor loving partner who lets me go off on 1-2 week long trips without her, that when she goes with me SHE won’t suffer.  She’s a thin lady and does poorly in cold even though she loves skiing in Breckenridge.  And cold windy rain- hah!  Whereas I’ve hiked at elevation in the Smokies during 60 mph rain and snowstorms and enjoyed the challenge, for her that’s nope nope nope we’re staying in the tent all day and it better hold up.  Thus, I’m willing to carry 2-4 extra pounds of bomber shelter to get the payoff of her company for a week in the best of the outdoors.

“Thus, I’m willing to carry 2-4 extra pounds of bomber shelter to get the payoff of her company for a week in the best of the outdoors.”

Understood Five Star. Stand up for love! And you’ll both know each other that much more for the experience. Lucky couple!

I’ve never hiked the Teton Crest (I wish) or two of the other places you mention, so of course go with what you know and need to do. All the best.

Fortunately for me this website has enabled me over the past few years to really cut down my weight.  Even in winter, for a week long hike including food I can usually stay at or under 30 lbs. at the start.  Cutting weight smartly in other areas gives me a little room for luxury weight, and on trips with my wife, a beefier tent will be that luxury.

And maybe some good whiskey :)

I’d add a double quilt to that list, use Rogers system of UL sleeping bgs and a LW or UL double quilt

LOL Edward, we can’t even share the same covers AT HOME.  She freezes, I boil.  I will probably use a 30 degree quilt, she will require a 0 degree bag.

I will probably use a 30 degree quilt, she will require a 0 degree bag.
Well, for heavens sake, be USEFUL!
Get her a better mat and then snuggle closely. Keep her warm!

It was below -7 C in the mountains a few nights ago, and there was a bit of a cold wind too. (The tent became a hard ice shell.) Sue had her quilt wrapped around her, and half my quilt over the top as well. I was under the other half of my quilt. We managed.

Cheers

I hear you about not having the luxury of rescheduling.  That was my situation when we did the trip in the Pasayten.  We’d planned in long in advance, an 11 day trek from Horseshoe Basin in the eastern Pasayten, along the Boundary Trail to end the trip at Hart’s Pass.  I had a Eureka Caddis back then, a tunnel tent!  It did keep us dry and safe.  The weather stayed unsettled for most of that trip (early July!), but we did the whole trek.  There were some spectacular moments.  And the bad weather had completely cleared out the area of humans, so we had the whole place to ourselves, went for days without seeing another person.

I should have mentioned this slightly lighter bomb proof dome from TNF.  A little lighter than the VE-25, but still heavy and not a whole lot of room.  But free-standing and solid as a brick.

https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/equipment-tents/mountain-25-ca8g?variationId=C8T