Above Treeline Tent Hypothetical

[Five Star]

IF you were going to have more weeks off starting in 2018 and IF your wife/SO wanted to accompany you on several week-long epic hikes annually in the high country (often above treeline), what tent would you want?  Wife needs 100% security in potentially challenging 3 season conditions (no winter hikes for her).  Given that even in summer we could face 50-60mph winds, blowing rain and light snow, I find myself (gulp) looking at Hillebergs, although preferably yellow label tents.  In particular, the Rogen vs. the Anjan.

First of all, would these yellow label tents be enough (I’m thinking yes)?

Would go with the Anjan 3 over the 2 for more space with minimal weight penalty, but space isn’t a dealbreaker….the Rogen is ok for two.  What I worry about is our height.  The Anjans are 86″ long with inward sloping walls at the foot end, whereas the Rogen is 90″ long.  I am 74″ tall and worry if my bag will touch the wall.  However, the Rogen is only 38″ height whereas the Anjans are 41″ at the door.  The Rogen has 2 doors and 2 vestibules, which to us is preferable but not essential.

Those who have experience with these tents, which do you think would serve us best?  And IF you think you have a cheaper alternative that I can sell to the wife as truly bomber, let me know.  FWIW we have experience in Black Diamond tents and apparently we’re a sweaty duo and had too much condensation.  I do not want a mid (prefer to have doors protected) and a tarp is out with the wife.  Also, we both use trekking poles just in case that matters.  I know somebody might propose the ZPacks Duplex, but for that price it’s easy to rationalize just a little bit more for a Hille.  Price isn’t really an object anyway.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Personally I think that “luxuries” like two doors and honestly, two walls, make people on the fence more comfortable with the whole situation.  While you would feel good taking a duplex, a skeptical person may look at the ‘flimsy’ fabric and “doors” and while they will get in the tent and give it a go, they are feeling unprotected and especially with the the transparency of cuben, exposed.

You named good tents with Hille obviously, I have a Fjallraven Abisko Endurance, which is straight up too much for SE, but the quality it top notch and they have some lighter, yet storm worthy options.  (FYI in Fjallraven lingo Keb= Strong, and Abisko= Light)

Hell some of the Big agnes tents may do you well, a three person?

[Five Star]

I was initially pondering a Copper Spur HV UL3 but I just can’t convince myself  that it could ride out a real storm in an exposed location.  Great living space though.  If we were going to stick close to home in the SE that would be the ticket, but she LOVES the mountains….and she is already jealous of my 9 day trip with a partner to the Winds in September.  She wants that, the Tetons, Colorado Rockies, etc.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I am not sure about  the HV by I was in a windstorm with the Copper Spur UL3 with everything staked down.  It was probably +40 mph (for 30 minutes) and the the fly was flopping in the wind pretty hard, it was pretty noisy and it kept me up, but the tent held up fine.  If I knew that I was going to be in high winds for a sustained period of time, I would probably pick another tent.

My 2 cents

[Katherine .]

TarpTent Scarp2 with the solid inner and extra pole set?

[Chris C]

Search YouTube for videos on reviews on your prospective tents + wind to see how these tents hold up. Also, feel free to contact Hilleberg and Big Agnes with your questions. Both companies are very responsive.

My first tent was a Copper Spur mtnGLO UL3. Although I like the colors (light gray, medium gray, minimally orange trim) and it’s quick to set up, the inner tent has a lot of mesh and the fly doesn’t go all the way to the ground. It was fine in warm, rainy weather but it was too cold for me in 40F temperatures. The Hilleberg Yellow Label outer tents may not go all the way to the ground and have mesh-only doors.

A lot of guys are comfortable with all that ventilation in wintery conditions; however, most women tend to run colder so I would recommend a Hilleberg Red Label tent for the lighter weight and the ability to control the air flow. The sand color is somewhat sheer in case you want to use the outer tent without the inner tent. The dark green would offer more visual privacy.

If the weight & price difference between the Red Labels and correlating Black Labels are negligible to you, then get a Black Label. As you probably know, Hillebergs can be pitched with the outer/inner/footprint all at once which makes for a dry inner tent while setting up camp in inclement weather. There is a Hilleberg thread in Backpacking Light Gear (General) Forum and also in advrider.com. You’ll find a lot of posts with guys who are 6’2″ and up.

If you don’t mind a two-person tent, based on your terrain, I would use my Hilleberg Jannu over my Staika. It’s more convenient to have all our gear in one vestibule instead of going back and forth between two vestibules, and it weighs less. I tried a Nammatj 3GT but didn’t like the acute angle at the foot.

I wish I could try out a Fjallraven, Helsport or Exped but my current needs are covered with a handful of Hillebergs.

I’m interested to find out what you chose.

 

 

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

I have a scarp2 and thought about it. It ticks all the boxes but i imagine its a sweatbox in the SE. Double moment is breezier and easier to set up than the scarp but i dont know the storm worthiness. Im sure itd take a beating, but idk

[Michael K]

I used the older version of the Coppers Spur (UL2) for 6 years above tree line in exposed locations for 3 years in Colorado and 3 years in the Winds and it has never failed me.  I think that they are well suited for 3 season conditions out west in terms of wind…….however a ground sheet is necessary to preserve the floor in the rocky terrain that you’ll often encounter above tree line.  I just bought the HV version, which I have only used here in Texas once, but Big Agnes claims it is stronger and it has even more vertical walls and a tighter pitch than my old tent.  Out west I usually camp above tree line since I love to wake up to and hang out in the evenings in the presence of prime views.

[jscott]

I’ve used a Fly Creek UL1 for years. It’s actually very wind worthy. The design suggests as much: low to the ground with good pole structure. I would imagine the Copper Spur, or a 2 or three person Fly Creek, if such things exist, would likewise be good in the wind. My tent is bomb proof in wind and rain. Above tree line there may be options for rock sheltered setup, or even krumholtz.

[Franco Darioli]

have a scarp2 and thought about it. It ticks all the boxes but i imagine its a sweatbox in the SE”

There are several options to overcome that possibility.
1) get the mesh inner
2) open the end vents
3) lift the door panels up so you get cross ventilation and air ingress but still have the floor rain protected.

BTW, it takes 2 x 25″x 77″  mats, so a bit wider and longer  than some.

[Roger Caffin]

OK, we all know I am biased. Never mind. I suggest what you need is a good 2-man tunnel tent. While many American tents (pop-ups) may be fine in sheltered forest, once you are above the tree-line in shoulder seasons, things change. In particular, any tent which has a throw-over fly is just NOT good enough. The poles must be threaded into the fly for stability.

A thought: once you have paid for that outrageously expensive tunnel tent, and you and your wife have spent a happy few nights in it under severe weather conditions, you just might find the cost of the tent has ceased to enter your thinking. Paramount will be the security of the tent.

The next thing is the number of poles. Two poles are simply not enough in alpine conditions: you need at least 3 poles. My summer tunnel has 3; my winter tunnel has 4 poles. I will concede that my winter tent is seriously extreme.

Cheers

[Five Star]

“OK, we all know I am biased. Never mind. I suggest what you need is a good 2-man tunnel tent. While many American tents (pop-ups) may be fine in sheltered forest, once you are above the tree-line in shoulder seasons, things change. In particular, any tent which has a throw-over fly is just NOT good enough. The poles must be threaded into the fly for stability.

A thought: once you have paid for that outrageously expensive tunnel tent, and you and your wife have spent a happy few nights in it under severe weather conditions, you just might find the cost of the tent has ceased to enter your thinking. Paramount will be the security of the tent.”

 

BANG, per usual Roger you hit things right on the nose.  If it were just ME going on these trips, I would take my BSI Mirage 1P, and I’m fairly confident I could pull it off in my Echo 2 tarp as well….a small chance of failure that I think I could adapt to and learn from.  But with my wife I want as close to 100% of a guarantee as possible.  Which had me leaning towards an Anjan or Nallo.  But to your point, those are both 2 pole tents, so maybe I’ll look closer at the GT models.  I will also look hard at the Scarp 2 (I have a Scarp 1 and it has performed well in blustery SE thunderstorms).

However, as a 6’2″ guy I still worry about my feet hitting the walls of an Anjan/Nallo.

[Andrew Srna]

I would consider a silnylon MLD Trailstar with innernet for you guys

[Five Star]

@Roger (or anyone else)

Which would you trust more, an Allak or a Nallo GT?

[Iago Vazquez]

You mention not wanting a mid because of the uncovered entrance. Since you are carrying poles, have you considered a Yama Swiftline 2 person? I got to see a prototype of the one person that Gen is working on last month when he invited me to his shop. Both my wife and I loved the design. Very roomy inside, covered entrances and plenty large vestibules. The poles are offset to the sides, so the door entrance is essentially unobstructed and very easy to hop on and off. All that at 34 oz. If free-standing is not a need, I think Gen has a pretty unbeatable product.

Also, when looking at tunnels, I assume you realize that often the inner at least the head or the foot or both have vertical walls.

[Five Star]

@iago   Yes re: tunnel tents.  The Swiftline is a neat design and I’ve followed it from a distance during its development.  Would be a great option for me in the SE.  It just seems to present a lot of “target” to a wind, and I KNOW my wife would be skeptical of it being bombproof given the use of trekking poles.  I trust shelters like that up to a point, but in a summer alpine environment…..I think I’d need much experience with that type of shelter before I could reassure her.  Her definition of stupid light vs. mine.

Appreciate everyone’s feedback so far.

[Roger Caffin]

Hilleberg tents are good, but they have some limitations. The GT models you mention do have 3 poles, but note carefully that the span between the rear pole and the middle pole remains very long. The vestibule is what gets the extra pole. Those tents will take an end-on wind to be sure, but side-on is not as good.

Also have a look at the Macpack Olympus from New Zealand – a land od seriously bad weather. We have ‘lived’ in an Olympus for many years in the alps and in the snow.I would trust it further than the Anjan and Nallo. But it is not cheap.

Have you read our detailed review of tunnel tents, at
https://backpackinglight.com/tunnel_tents_part1/
https://backpackinglight.com/tunnel_tents_part2_2012/
https://backpackinglight.com/tunnel_tents_part3_2012/ ?

If you are thinking of spending that amount of money, it might be worth while. Reading the reviews might also make your wife happy?

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Re Swiftline: a huge amount of unsupported fabric with tenuous supports. It may be very comfortable in still weather, but in an alpine storm it would get shredded.
Most Tarptents (and similar) have the same problem: they are designed to a ‘tarp’ concept and to a weight, and not to a 50 mph storm. Tunnels do handle far worse storms on a regular basis.

Cheers

[Michael K]

I agree that the Hillbergs are going to be much better where high winds are expected.  On the old non-HV CSUL2 that I had, in high winds the fly and tent would shake a bit or bend a little in high winds when wind hit from the side.  When pitched with the wind hitting the front or back, it was more stable.  I just bought the HV version of CSUL2, but I have not yet used it in any storms…..so I don’t know if it will better handle winds from the side.

[Paul McLaughlin]

I too would have doubts about the Nallo or Anjan and footroom. I am not as tall as you and still every time I look at the length of those and the slope at the foot I think – nope, not going to do it. Too bad they don’t make a yellow label version of the Kaitum – now that has plenty of space.

But I think a Tarptent Scarp 2 with the crossing poles would do you nicely, and for trips with less challenging weather expected you can go without the crossing poles to save weight.

[Greg K]

I have done most of my camping on backpacks at or above timberline and I go with a really light weight set up.  Used a Tarptent for years, and other fairly light weight tents.  But most of my backpacking has been in the North Cascades, where many who are unfamiliar with the area would think you’d need a bomb proof, storm proof tent.  North Cascades are in Washington State, right, and it rains all the time there, right? Turns out that once summer sets in up there (sometimes not till mid-July), the weather is very benign until the winter snows begin in late September or October.  Afternoon T-storms are very rare to non-existent most summers.  What’s more typical is a 2 or 3 week stretch of sunshine every day, followed by a day or three of a weak front moving thru, followed by another 2 or 3 week stretch of sunny weather, etc.

When the forecast is for wind and rain, I just don’t go!  If the forecast is for light rain, I’d head for a location east of the Cascade Crest which can be in sunshine while the West Side is in drizzle.

Bottom line: If you have the flexibility to pick your location and your trips will be 5 to 8 days, and you check the forecast before going out, I think you can go with a light weight set up.  But if you want bomb proof, look into a full dome or a tunnel as Roger has suggested. North Face used to make a bomb proof dome, VE-23 or VE-24 I think it was called.  Heavy as hell, but a good one for Patagonia.

[Iago Vazquez]

I understand about the Switfline, and I only mentioned it because the first post spoke about pyramids as only having the drawback of a wet entry, which the Switfline avoids very well. As I mentioned, I don’t have first hard experience with it. But due to the shape of its panels, it seems like it would do better than many other shelters in windy conditions, as always, pending proper staking.

As to tunnels, I love the concept, but most of the ones available for sale seem heavy or as Roger mentions not having enough poles for lateral support. I was looking forward to seeing Roger’s design come to production. The only other double wall light tunnel tent I have seen that seems possibly good is the Big Sky Montana. I am aware of how dissatisfied people were in the past with Big Sky as far as their financial dealings. I notice you mentioned the Mirage earlier, and I wonder what your experience was. Now they seem to only charge people once the product ships. I purchased a Soul a couple of years back and everything went smoothly and according to the provided timeline. I have since then contact them via email about inquiries, and I have received a response promptly. It appears you can special order a Montana.

https://backpackinglight.com/bsi_montana_2p_tent_review/

http://bigskyproducts.com/Big_Sky_Montana_2P_shelter.aspx

Of course, in reality the Nallo may just be as good of an option if not better and not much heavier. Again, I don’t have any experience with the Montana, and I’m just mentioning it in case you want to research it a bit more. Also, I have seen British tunnel tents and Fjallraven Abisko line at Campsaver from time to time.

Another option from BSI would be their Chinook line of tents if you decide to go that route. Again, no experience :)

[Roger Caffin]

Big Sky went through a very bad patch at one stage, and copped a serious serve here on BPL. They had some financial problems which were compounded by a disaster in China which meant the factory was unable to ship anything to America: it had all been commandeered by the gov’t for disaster relief. They seem to have since recovered and learnt the lesson about finances.

The Montana with 2 poles might serve in a low wind environment. You would need the 3-pole version for reliability. The design, with a single elbow at the top, is one I was using in the period 2002 – 2004 as a 2-pole design. My designs have come a long way since then.

Cheers

[Five Star]

@Roger again….appreciate the links, I will be browsing those shortly

@iago again…..thanks for your input as well.  My experience with BSI was surprisingly good.  There was one minor hiccup but I got my tent within a month, and I plan to give it its first shot at real weather in the Winds this September.

@Greg K….the missus and I lived in WA state for 4 years, and part of her need for security stems from a hike we did in the Olympics.  75 and sunny at the trailhead, then got caught in a wicked driving sleet storm on Hurricane Ridge.  In July.  This was one of our first trips and we were woefully unprepared, despite the massive loads we were carrying.  Our little Eureka pyramid tent got pulverized.  We were lucky to avoid serious hypothermia.  To her credit, she continues to follow me on some of my journeys lol.

@Paul…you share my fears.  I’m looking harder at the Kaitum 3 as a result.

Off to read Roger’s links.  Thanks again for everyone’s input.  This site truly has an immense knowledge and experience base.

[Ben C]

Trailstar makes perfect sense to me. It’s a lot lighter than a four season tent and should handle your wind fine.

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