A NEW PARADIGM FOR ANALYZING PWPB SYSTEMS LIKE THE COLUMBIA OUTDRY EX FEATHERWEI

[Jordan Moore]

And… I found one……on Colombia’s home page

[Jordan Moore]

OK…wrong again…I did not find one, still in the market for a Large Carbon.

[Diane Pinkers]

Check out Sierra Trading Post, Jordan.  They seem to have it.

https://www.sierratradingpost.com/columbia-sportswear-outdry-extreme-featherweight-shell-jacket-waterproof-for-men~p~559xw/?filterString=s~columbia-mens-jackets%2F&merch=prod-rec-prod-prod559XW

[Jordan Moore]

Yes Diane! Thank you!! ordered…

[Christoph Blank]

Richard, thanks for the test, that’s exactly how it looks like in my case.
I did not get an answer from Columbia yet other than that the jacket might get soaked with water from both sides (which is not the case). I sent them a link to this thread, asking for a more technical description.

Hanz B, I’m not working with glassfiber, why?

[Christoph Blank]

Latest answer from Columbia is that the customer service guy “does not know who to contact regarding technical issues” and I should return the jacket if I’m not satisfied. That’s ridiculous for this company.

[Roger Caffin]

You should perhaps consider the possibility that the customer service guy is acting on orders from above to fudge (stonewall) the whole issue to try to get you to shut up and forget it.

After all, what else CAN they do? There is no such thing as ‘waterproof/breathable’: it’s a contradiction in physics.

Cheers

[Bruce Tolley]

Why customer service is not revealing technical information

This is a new product, right? Columbia use contract manufacturers in China and elsewhere. Quality control might have screwed up, or worse the designers might have used materials and chosen manufacturing processes that did not scale to volume at specified quality

Either way, there is no reason for a company to disclose more information. 1) they might not know, and 2) it is probably proprietary and confidential. Perhaps a company aiming for a more closer connection to early adopters would disclose such information. Good news is that Columbia offered to replace the jacket.

Is there an ISO specification for waterproof/breathable? My designed in Japan, made in Chian bicycling jackets by Pearl Izumi always state the waterproofness and breathablity but none of the USA based manufacturers disclose this information.

[Christoph Blank]

Roger, I’m aware of that, of course. However, the question was if this is technically okay. So they should at least have a clear answer that is confirmed by someone who knows.

I don’t want to replace the jacket a fourth time – that’s what they always tell me.

[Roger Caffin]

Ah, but is there ‘someone who knows’, or is the whole thing run by Marketing who just take what the Chinese factory offers?

I ask because that DOES happen. I was chatting to a technical guy from a major (USA consumer brand) pack mfr about some small/day packs they had. Apparently the graphics dept sketches a pretty diagram of what the next pack should look like, and then the whole thing is tossed over to a contract mfr in China. There are NO technical specs beforehand at all. The factory just makes something which looks like the sketch.

Peanuts …

Cheers

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Roger, Your hypothesis in reference to Columbia might be right. Here is the bio of Columbia’s head of supply chain from the Columbia web site. She was previously a Marketplace planning director at Nike. In my previous jobs at silicon valley networking companies, the supply chain folks who selected and managed the contract manufacturers came in with expertise from roles running manufacturing groups or running QA groups.

That being said, surely this Outdry fabric technology is developed my some other fabric or materials company, and looks like it is not ready for mass production.

LISA A. KULOK
Senior Vice President, Global Supply Chain Operations
Lisa Kulok joined Columbia in February 2008 as Senior Director of Global Planning and was named Senior Vice President of Global Supply Chain Operations in May 2015. From 1987 to 2007, Ms. Kulok held various leadership positions at NIKE, Inc., including USA Apparel Marketplace Planning Director and Director of Regional Planning. During this time, she led numerous teams that developed and implemented planning and supply chain processes, systems and organizations that supported growth of the company’s annual revenues from $1 billion to $18 billion.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bruce

I dare say the fabric was developed by a third party. That would be a fabric mill.

But let’s skip all the marketing spin and focus on some fundamental facts: you cannot have a fabric which is both waterproof and breathable at the same time. The laws of physics beat the blandishments of Marketing every time. Whether a supply chain person knows anything about the laws of physics is another matter.

This is why cottage companies survive against the mass marketing companies: they are focused on performance, not spin. When the company founders sell out (it happens), it is usually only a few years to when the company ceases to be a market leader.

Cheers

[Stumphges]

Richard Nisley,

Just wanted to bring to your attention: Gore H5 Shakedry jacket – newly introduced and marketed for “hiking and mountaineering”. Marketing materials show guys wearing it with backpacks.

[Richard Nisley]

Stumphges,

Thanks for the heads up. I am willing to lab test one using the same protocol in this test. Timing will be dependent on common availability.

I have also been tracking the reviews on the Marmot EvoDry options. Shoulders and wrist areas eventual wet out have been reported.

I am still field testing an Outdry EX Featherweight and have yet to experience wet-out when wearing (as the per-designed-normal vapor-pressure-gradient). Just exposed to water, when not bring worn, causes the fabric to absorb moisture and temporarily discolor.

[Stumphges]

Hi Richard,

Thank you.

I recently got an Outdry EX Featherweight but haven’t yet worn it in rain as it’s been too cold. Your report of no wet-out when actually wearing the jacket is encouraging. Like you, I’ve seen surface absorption during non-worn conditions. If the Featherweight does not wet out in use my interest in this more expensive and (probably) less durable Gore option would be minimal, unless it was found to be capable of passing enough moisture vapor to allow sustained activity significantly greater than 4 METs.

[Ryan S]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I bought the columbia outdry featherweight about a month ago, I used it working outside in heavy rain for almost 4 hours not stop and it never leaked unlike my marmot precip. It was around 45F with light wind and I stayed comfortable without much overheating. I had a columbia omni heat midweight baselayer on with a columbia polartec 100 halfzip fleece on with the outdry two chest zips open for air circulation. I like most everything about the jacket accept for the hood, its kinda bulky and has a weird cut in my opinion, would be better if the hood was more like the precip. I’m also hoping they will come out with the featherweight outdry pants, preferably full leg zips. I know they just released two new outdry jackets but I have no reviews or experience with those. For some reason I can’t read MR. RICHARDS report on this jacket, can someone please tell me if the review is positive or negative.</p>

[Graham F]

My experience is as Richards. Mine is the black colour. Nothing has changed since my original comments last May and June -though not much use lately as it is Summer and we are in also drought here.

[Richard Nisley]

The review was positive.

[Tianming C]

The link to the pdf on the second post shows “This item might not exist or is no longer available”. Is it just me?

[NoCO-Jim]

[Richard Nisley]

For some explained reason, the original link in post 2 of this thread stopped working and BPL won’t let me edit that post to correct the link. So, I have no recourse but to post it here: Link to my original pdf report

[Eric Blumensaadt]

OK, now I hear that The North Face is coming out with a “revolutionary” WPB fabric.

What, if anything, does anyone know about this “unobtanium” fabric?

[Roger Caffin]

What, if anything, does anyone know about this “unobtanium” fabric?
It has a new miracle coating of ‘marketanium’.

Cheers

[Ryan S]

The new North Face fabric is called Futurelight and it will not be available until fall 2019, the best review that I’ve found was by going on YouTube and going to ” outdoorguru ” channel and view his outdoor news ipso Munich 2019 where Future light is shown and explained. Lets hope its not just hype.

[Roger Caffin]

Lets hope its not just hype.
One hopes, but so far every other miracle fabric HAS been hype.
Sad.

Cheers

[Author]

Posts