A NEW PARADIGM FOR ANALYZING PWPB SYSTEMS LIKE THE COLUMBIA OUTDRY EX FEATHERWEI

[Christoph Blank]

It was raining hard today so I left the jacket outside. This is the result after around 4 hours:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytwjok2nk0u9mzh/AADp87tvkGR3qrdJCScsH1Mqa?dl=0

Can anyone confirm that this is “normal”?

[Ryan Smith]

Christoph,

Did you end up sending pics to Columbia? I dont see how it could be normal.

Ryan

[Christoph Blank]

I sent the pics to Columbia International as well as Europe – no response so far. Will ask again today.

I did another test: Formed a bowl with water with both my Rab Event Jacket and the Columbia jacket and left it for some hours. The Rab stayed dry, Columbia leaked, not much but it did:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytwjok2nk0u9mzh/AADp87tvkGR3qrdJCScsH1Mqa?dl=0

(last two pictures with the large dark spot)

It would be good if anyone could test this as well. I noticed that the wetting out (dark spots) appears faster in the rain than with the static pool of water, not sure why. It does not let through a lot of water though, but you can clearly see it does. I thought that this won’t happen with that fabric.

[Richard Nisley]

Christoph,

The material is defective and should be warranty replaced by Columbia.

The jacket that I tested had no discoloration or leakage

 

[Ken Larson]

Richard…Thank you for your input on this ongoing thread……!!

 

[Christoph Blank]

Thanks, Richard – Meanwhile, after some more pressure, I received an answer from Columbia.
They also told me that it must be a defect and I should return the jacket.

It’s a pity since I’ll be on a trip this weekend where I need the jacket :/

[Ryan Smith]

Christoph,

I confirmed my jacket also failed the “water in a bowl” challenge. I emailed Columbia. Anyone with these jackets should do some testing before they’re used in the field.

Ryan

[Christoph Blank]

Oh my…  Did you also have the dark spots?

[Ryan Smith]

Spots – yes.  My MH Super Plasmic rain jacket held held up just fine during the same test.

Ryan

[Diane Pinkers]

Any information on serial number/batch number for these defective shells?  Buying something on sale isn’t any good, if it has to be returned.  I was wondering whether to jump on the sale, or wait for the next iteration of the jackets.

[Greg Mihalik]

Bought one on sale from Columbia two weeks ago.  Large, Blue.

Did the “bowl test” on two sections of fabric, the first one for an hour, the second one for two hours – NO spots.

[Christoph Blank]

As mentioned with the bowl it took a bit longer. In (moderate to heavy) rain it was visible after about an hour.

I’ll return the jacket now, but I guess they will just refund me the money. Unfortunately, in Europe, it seems quite hard to get these jackets for a reasonable price at the moment.

[Stumphges]

Heads Up: Blue (“Carbon”) version of Outdry Ex Featherweight going for $80 on sierra trading post

[Christoph Blank]

So I returned my last jacket, bought again a new one, did the test again. Same problem.

Some spots are okay, some spots wet through after a few hours. This is the 3rd jacket I have with the same problem, it seems as if Columbia has some serious production issues here..

[Richard Nisley]

Christopher,

Is the jacket placed in the bowl with the water repellent surface facing the two cups of water?

Please post a picture of the wetting pattern on your replacement jacket.

[Christoph Blank]

Hi Richard,

Yes. Here are some pictures:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzomwoq743tuwbb/IMG_20181111_124749278.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzgedfyzh1jgass/IMG_20181114_232416098.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wisqo2gqasqn1g/IMG_20181114_232424699.jpg?dl=0

According to my last messages with Columbia, this should not happen. As mentioned I did the same with my Event jacket, which did not have any issues during the same amount of time.

As already written, I noticed this to happen in rain (3-4 hours) with my first and second jacket. It looked the same.

[Richard Nisley]

I am on a 1 1/2 month trip and won’t be back to the office for three weeks. I have the jacket, I originally tested, with me and have used it a number of times in the rain. I haven’t noticed any discoloring but I will bowl test it again to seen if that will cause discoloring. It has now been stuffed and unstuffed significantly more than when I first tested it.  I will post an updated picture after I soak it for at least four hours.

[Christoph Blank]

Thanks Richard!

I noticed that the results varied with different parts of the jacket (as you can see in the pictures). For some it took longer. However, after I leaving it overnight almost all spots I tested showed this pattern.

[Stumphges]

The water is drawing into the hydrophilic (water loving) PU membrane layer. Christoph, what did Columbia say should happen with such testing?

[Christoph Blank]

I explained how I tested this – as I’m not sure if it makes sense. However, they did not comment this, they just told me that it shouldn’t look like this and I need to return it.

The patterns looked the same though when I used the jacket in actual (hard) rain.

[Ben C]

I bought one a month or so ago direct from Columbia.  It passed the bowl test fine.

[Richard Nisley]

I placed the Columbia Featherweight, I originally tested, in a bowl with the exterior side up. I then poured in two cups of water and cinched the water ball with a rag. I placed this cinched water ball unsupported in a 70F room for 24 hours. After draining the water, the exterior was stained a darker color and the liner side was damp to the touch.

My tentative analysis is the same as Stumphges’. In the absence of a normal driving force (higher temp and/or humidity on on the liner side, water moved from the normal external side to the normal internal side and darkened the fabric. I have not seen this before because I have always had a normal driving force  when testing or using this garment. I do not interpret this as a design problem.

 

The Clausius-Clapeyron Equation, or one of the alternative regressions of the actual physical process, can be looked at if the term “driving force” is not understood.

[Stumphges]

Hydrophobic outer layer?

I just received my Columbia Outdry EX Featherweight, color Carbon (it’s blue). I ran the arm under the sink a while ago and noticed that there was almost no beading of the water as one sees when water interacts with a hydrophobic surface (e.g. DWR-treated fabric).

I set the jacket aside without brushing off the water. 15 minutes later I walked by the jacket and noticed that it appears as though each drop of water sitting on the surface of the fabric was soaking in. Maybe I’m imagining things.

But it was my understanding that this jacket had a hydrophobic outer coating that caused water to bead up and run off the otherwise exposed PU membrane.

Has anyone observed water beading up and running off this jacket, or does water just set there waiting to be brushed/shaken off?

[Hanz B]

@chbla

Christoph,

do you work with fiberglass by chance?

[Jordan Moore]

I want one…size Large in Carbon. I see the Black is still available, but I am a bit shy about wearing black shells, I hold onto the idea that a colored shell might differentiate me from some of the other large mammals here in AK. Anyone see a Large-Carbon out there? Thanks.

-Jordan

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