2014 JMT thru-hiker survey – results on gear failures

So 600 replied to his survey. What percentage of JMT thru hikers is that. Sounds crowded

Well ken it was in reponse to this above

What struck me most was anyone can buy a bunch of UL gear but that doesn't mean it will be used with the proper care

Fortunatrly these days its more common to tell folks here that UL gear may not last as long, especially if used alot

And hopefully less of the "unrealistic expectations"

;)

John amassed a lot of information in this survey which was answered by almost 700 hikers in 2014. Gear failures are a tiny part.

As you might guess, the majority of people it seems, are new to a lengthy hike. Some amount are poor shape, heavily laden, and simply have unrealistic expectations.

About 25% drop out, many cite couldnt do the necessary miles. Essentially same percent that dont make it out of GA on the AT, only the GA AT is much harder than JMT.,(imo)

I personally met a father & daughter combo getting off trail when they simply couldnt handle their self admitted 65 lb packs and heavy boots. Go figure.

Eric, I understand where your coming from. I actually thought your post was well stated. I came to BPL as of late and after the bounce off the "stupid light" part of the curve. In fact I see many posts here of folks who have gone to the outer edge of their envelope and then added back in weight for comfort, durability, ect. It was those posts that were the most valuable to me in learning about UL BPing. I simply couldn't afford to go through the process my self and I'm quite fond of learning from others experiences rather than reinvent the wheel in a manner of speaking. Fortunately for me things worked out well for me. I found BPL before making all but a pack purchase. I since bought another but all my other choices for gear and its intended purposes were spot on. I'm diggin' BPing again and I am not shy of admitting if it were not for the help of others here I wouldn't be writing in this forum let alone back spending nights in the woods.

I do stand by my original post and feel many so called failures were for the reasons I stated. When I read things like a shelter having rips in the fly and the user admitting to only partial responsibility or using a 20 yr old backpack and lo and behold the shoulder strap lets go I have to think, well who else is responsible. Acts of God fall under my responsibility as well. So things like weather related gear failures are on me. I would go as far as accepting full responsibility for ALL failures that fall under 'did not test out before using'.

It happens in any activity… I have watched others in the shooting sports and MX as well fail on match/race day because of un tested equipment or gear that has been stretched to its limit. Its no big deal as long as they were not expecting more but unlike most sports you can be placing your longevity at risk when your miles into the wilderness. I'm glad that the failures were relatively harmless and that as mentioned above I'm certain all had an experience they will soon not forget.

Thanks for the response to my post, I enjoyed reading your opposing comments and continue to learn from your experience.

jimmyb

Even non-UL gear shreds if it gets caught in extreme conditions (fabric, poles, etc..). Trail runners are going to wear out faster than traditional hiking boots, but the latter may wear out the hiker faster in more ways than one (assuming the same mileage, such as competing the same long distance trail like the JMT).

Jimmy, i agree with you completely

My point is simply that the internet forums can often add to the "unrealistic expectations" of folks … Not just on BPL

However in years past i think it was a particular problem here due to

– you had some new folks trying to emulate the minimal gear of hardened folks who had the experience and conditioning to get aways with it

– BPL is very gear centric, the gear section is has wel over 10-20 times the posts/threads of the technique one (which is also the philosophy section)

– there was a bit of "religious fervor" and "elitism" here for a bit where some folks believed that carrying UL gear made em better and they needed to spread the gospel … Fortunately thats died down quite a bit but you can still se rememants in some threads where theres quite a bit of mirth at "traditional" folks

All these may have helped with the "unreasonable expectations" … I know folks that are smart enough to avoid internet forums for these kinds of reasons, they just go out and climb, and not worry about the judgement of the intraweb jury

Skills and accomplishments make the "elite" and most folks here including myself arent in that category

However we can be proficient in our skills and perhaps share what little we know

Gear can matter, but its the skill to use it that matters much more

I said the same thing years ago … Anyone can pull out a credit card and be UL within a day … Doesnt mean anything

Just like going to MEC and buying a full rack and rope doesnt make me competent in climbing

The first step would be to not talk so much about gear but rather techniques … But that requires a seismic shift

;)

yet another round of complaining about BPL and folks who like gear and how folks are doing it wrong and blah blah.

from someone who posts endlessly about gear, all day, every day.

the irony is rich.

Yeah Eric, right on that gear is not the end all but only a means to an end. Now that my kit is complete and in refinement mode I would agree that I should make a commitment to spend more time bumping up my knowledge in other areas. Honestly I would rather be splashing my feet in a backcountry lake right now and to heck with internet discussions. But I do come here as I don't have friends that BP and it really is cool to at least talk to others who enjoy the same love of the outdoors while the winter weather has me snowed in.

One thing for sure BPL has its share of topic shifts so I do get educated on more than gear in the gear forum. I am guilty of drift too, just figured its all part of the BPL experience ;)

Oh and FWIW you will most always find a piece of fleece gear in my BP :) …annnd topic drift back to OP, sorry.

Take care, jimmyb

Lol dave …

Im not even goong to bother … Some folks will hate and troll no matter what … Its da intrawebz =P

Jimmy …

I think many folks here are at the same point … Theyve got more gear than they need an just need to use it

I have a few hundred dollars in mec gift cards, and i keep getting more as gifts

And i have nothing to spend it on …

;)

eric, you've always been willing to poke at the fads of the day here, and you're more often than not righter than wronger, so to speak, I know you've correctly corrected me before as well. The examples you listed above I would have listed too re bpl fads that have faded as most people realize it's a bad idea. There's another group too by the way that are harder to notice, it's people who post as UL enthusiasts then simply vanish when whatever they are doing leads to catastrophic failure. You know the ones, like people who say you don't need to filter water then get super sick and then never discuss it publicly again… or the tarp/bivy user who almost dies one night from excess condensation on a cold rainy night, etc.

I liked the collection of user experiences, that's how you do real research, I don't know any other way, I've seen some of this first hand, like the sawyer squeeze mini being too slow, though when I tried to bring it up here in a thread and collect real data the thread disintegrated into nothing since apparently the mini is one of the current fads of the day, even though it's easy to test it and verify the generalized user experience of too slow/and/or clogs fast.

As with many things, this particular failure study has to be read with grains of salt, chunks, really, but some things are simply repeating what I've seen here and on other forums for ages now, yes, in fact, for example, thin carbon tubed trekking poles snap more easily than thick sturdy aluminum ones, and yes, the sawyer bags tend to fail and leak, and yes, the mini is slower than the regular one (worth noting in that study for example is that no regular sized sawyer squeezes had issues beyond people tossing them onto rocks and discovering that they do in fact break when you do that). I was surprised by how many plastic pumped filters failed, but I'd put that down in at least some cases to user heavy hands, plastic requires a touch. But I didn't find it too hard to separate the silly failures from the real ones, since I've seen the real ones repeated often enough to know they aren't fantasies.

Other parts were easy to see as lack of skill/ability, for example, alcohol stoves in wind, that's an equipment/use issue in almost all cases, that happened to me too the first long trip I took with one, then I learned how to do it right, so I can see a lot of users trying out their UL methods for the first time on a longer trail will have lack of skill/failure issues.

But Eric's main point is a good one, I've felt that and raised it before here too, promoting things as absolute goods when they aren't for many people (aka being a fanboy), and may require much more skill to get away with than a casual reader is led to believe, or realizes, which is what I think Eric is saying, more focus on methods, less on what you buy. BPL used to focus on that more, but I think the pay to post model may have skewed bpl away from that set of backpackers a bit, and towards the 'buy it all then use it' group, when I first joined here it was a common refrain to use skills rather than gear, now I see that much less often.

There was one sawyer mini issue I read in the study that showed clearly the person had fully researched it, probably reading several sites on how to use it, and here, and still had the issues, and they'd done it all right, including bringing and using the syringe.

jimmy b, you said it well. I've been sewing some fleece lately, and boy is that pleasant to work with, made some fleece hats, a balaclava for sleeping, etc, light durable cheap and no worries about scrunching the down etc.

Harold, couldn't PM you and don't want to go astray again. Jump to MYOG for a cool idea in sewing fleece I used the other day.

jimmyb My apologies again to op

Exactly what Sean said, people don't bother to do 3 – 5 day trips to see which gear works and what adjustments to the gear list they need to make. (IF they even have a gear list!)

EXAMPLES:
1. On a trip to Coyote Culch, Grand Escalante, Utah I had o lend my headnet to a woman who had no tent B/C her friend had packed a 1 person tent instead of a 2 person tent. (IMHO that "friend" should have slept outside.)
2. On a Grand Canyon backpack I had to patch up a guy's blisters B/C he had NO blister repair kit.
3. On a trip on the PCT to Olancha Peak I had to give a guy some of my food B/C he didn't bring enough!!!
4. On a trip in Yosemite I had to lend my pack cover to a girl whose tiny hooped bivy collapsed in a downpour.
5. In Yosemite again I gave a guy from another group Gorilla duct tape to patch his mattress.

PPP (P!ss Poor Planning) for sure!

BTW, to the OP's "gear failure list", I have not had gear failures on the trail other than some temporary SVEA 123 stove issues.

The only thing to be drawn from this report is that I should stay away from the JMF.

Above timberline and off-trail for me.

I found the list to be very interesting and informative. Thank you to whoever took the time to put that together.

I counted the amount of entries in each category. The categories with the most entries are listed in descending order. I also counted the amount of "Worst Problem" ranks in each category. Hopefully someone can make use of this :P.

1. Footwear: 75/535 entries total, 51 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

2. Shelter/Closures/Seams/Fabric/Poles: 74/535 entries total, 35 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

3. H2O Treatment: 66/535 entries total, 44 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

4. Backpack: 63/535 entries total, 34 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

5. Rain Gear: 39/535 entries total, 32 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

6. Sleeping Pad: 31/535 entries total, 19 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

7. Gaiters: 30/535 entries total, 19 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

8. Sleeping Bag: 29/535 entries total, 14 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

9. Stove: 23/535 entries total, 15 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

10. H2O Container: 19/535 entries total, 7 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

11. Warmth Layers: 17/535 entries total, 6 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

12. Other Clothing: 17/535 entries total, 9 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

13. Headlamp: 14/535 entries total, 4 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

Other: 13/535 entries total, 8 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

14. Electronics: 11/535 entries total, 7 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

15. Recharger: 9/535 entries total, 4 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

16. Bearcan: 5/535 entries total, 4 of which are ranked "Worst Problem".

"Pack did not fit. I bought the wrong size.

Quite the issue."

I saw a review of a hammock where the reviewer gave it a mediocre score because he didn't have many trees where he lived. Seriously.

Unrealistic expectations does not mean all those unrealistic expectations are about the gear. Duh.

Re: "The only thing to be drawn from this report is that I should stay away from the JMF. Above timberline and off-trail for me."

That's two of us.

Unrealistic expectations does not mean none of those unrealistic expectations are about the gear. Duh.

=P

As to the actual numbers that was posted last page

Its instructive to see that while rain gear werent the biggest category, the they had the highest % of worst problems

In other words if yr rain gear aint up to snuff yr up shiets creek withiut a paddle … As the great skurka found out famously

;)

It is too difficult for me to read long documents on my iPhone. For those who read through the survey: Were there any pencil failures? User errors when handling pencils? What are the most popular brands of pencils being used on the JMT?

Off topic. Another thing to do to avoid crowds, go bping in the off season. I've been in the Ansel Adams Wilderness a number of times in Oct. and only seen half a dozen people my whole 5 or 6 days out, one trip, they were all seen the same day. Same with Yosemite in Oct.
Duane

Interesting reviews! Thanks for breaking it down further, Eli.

I agree that most of these problems were due to inexperience. I think usually footwear would be listed as the worst gear problem. People's feet often aren't toughened up and many haven't found the right shoes.

Any filter is subject to failure. I suspect that the over representation by Sawyer has mostly to do with it's popularity.

Interesting about the gear destroyed by bears. Bears will often shred or crunch any item that MIGHT contain food, even if it doesn't smell like food at all, an empty oil can for example. I spent a couple months on the Alaska coast this summer and was noticing how often bears had chewed up man-made items that had washed up on the beaches. If a bear comes upon an unsecured pack, or other gear, it is very likely it will rip it up whether or not it contains food. That's why I always sleep with my pack.

"Were there any pencil failures?"

I used to get pencil failures in the old days. I would carry a mechanical pencil in my shirt pocket. Once dropped, it would develop problems.

What the world needs now is a self-sharpening non-mechanical pencil. I guess that is simply a regular pencil and a razor blade knife.

At least a pencil will not freeze like a ballpoint pen.

–B.G.–

Yup, I can imagine any number of potential problems arising for all but the 1337 BPL-er.

"Pencil dropped and unable to find due to unforeseen resemblance to small piece of wood."

"Pencil became wet after just 45 minutes in heavy rain."

"Pencil stolen by bear. Replaced by manufacturer under warranty."