2014 JMT thru-hiker survey – results on gear failures

Right to the list.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Fz_vc-zml_d1p2NEM5aW1wdjA/view?sle=true

Seems like a lot of people with unrealistic expectaions and lack of skills.

Would be nice if people said what the actual gear was that failed more often.

http://bit.ly/JMT2014GearProblems

This one helps John track how many people are reading it so he can gauge level of interest.

Lots of issues with footwear. Some of the comments are priceless.

Uncomfortable packs . . . sore feet . . . could it be more lack of conditioning than gear failures?

I like the gear failure due to bears.

They're all so quick to say no food was in the pack. Uh huh, sure. Takes one Cheeto.

Pack did not fit. I bought the wrong size.

Quite the issue.

I really like feedback like this with actual cases of failure. Lets me know what to expect if something is going to go wrong. I like knowing what will fail and how. Obviously it isn't the complete picture (don't know the denominator) but still useful.

The site would be more useful to me if it filtered out the chaff…the bears, the pack didn't fit, and the other user failures. Oh well. I skimmed and only read the actual failure ones.

Bears in Yosemite do rip open or steal empty packs, as well as break into cars to check out empty and clean ice chests – that is well documented by rangers, and signs around the park warn you not to leave packs unattended at any time. In TM backpacker camp you are instructed to keep even your empty pack in the locker.

Of course the velcro for the dirty girls doesn't stay on for long. I used epoxy. Wore out the shoe, and the gaiters, and the velcro is still on the shoe….

Alot of the problems I read seemed self inflicted. Likely due to inexperience with such a long trip compared to just doing weekend trips and how you need to be better prepared for less than ideal conditions. A few 4-5 day trips would have shaken out some of the issues. You see this kind of thing on the even longer trails like the AT which always surprised me. A lot of gear never used before. A lot of old gear not inspected before starting. No properly protecting gear and getting unexplained holes/tears; especially with UL type gear which requires better care. The problems go on and on.

The most interesting reads are some of the stove failures. But the failure that I least understand was the person who used all of the Part A but only half of Part B of their Aqua Mira drops. Somehow I suspect a failure to properly understand the directions since no mention of a bottle leak was stated (which I did experience on an older bottle once).

But this list doesn't really tell me much about a specific piece of gear that should be avoided due to being junk. Well except some of the rain jackets, but we've had threads here on many of those same jackets. The failure to stay dry due to the lack of rain jacket since it doesn't normally rain in the summer was priceless.

The biggest trend I saw were issues with Sawyer filters – the Mini in particular.

Every filter brand seemed to give hikers issues. I'm guessing it was most likely because they weren't cleaning the filter element or back flushing them often enough. And with mechanical pump filters, I suspect people weren't doing the required maintenance on the rubber O-rings.

Is there a lot of glacial flour or ground mineral content in the water along the JMT?

The trend with the Sawyer Mini, however, seems a bit disconcerting.

"The trend with the Sawyer Mini, however, seems a bit disconcerting."

The mini is too slow. Saw a friend give his setup away on a trip due to frustration with it. Brilliant. Give it to someone else to carry out.

I tried the regular and the mini. Use a Steripen. Just bought a Freedom, weighs less that the std size one when wet.

JMT water quality is OUTSTANDING in terms of clarity, so there should be no problems with the Sawyers' from sediment, that's for sure. With all the inexperienced folks out there (we saw poop/toilet paper EVERYWHERE!), I wouldn't drink it unpurified, but my Steripen worked perfectly.

I used a sawyer mini exclusively on a high sierra Skurka adventure trip last September for 6 days. Everyone else in the group used Aquamira. Its quite fast, and I was drinking before the aquamira water was ready. I found the filter starts off a bit slow when its dry but then speeds up about a 1/3 of the way through if you ramp up the squeezing( ie. rolling). I was using an Evernew bag but the provided bag works just fine. I did bring the syringe and back flushed it regularly.

I'd guess most of the "failures" are either people squeezing instead of rolling the bags, and over or under tightening the filter. Mine has never leaked. Yesterday I used it in PT Reyes on a day hike with the included .6 liter bag.

Before that I was using a regular sawyer and also had no problems with it.

Last summer my daughter hiked with her Girl Scouts troop to Aloha Lakes and borrowed my gravity filter. I cut pre-filter disks out of 1-micron polyester diesel filter pouches and place them in the fitting at the outlet of the dirty bag. This is what she brought back after 1 weekend:

Dirty disk.

She said they were extra careful to not stir up sediment when they scooped water into the dirty bag.

I had similar results in a subsequent PCT hike between Echo Lake and Sonora Pass. Lake water bad, creek water good. I have to wonder if there was a lot of ash from the fires? Anyway, glad I brought extra disks.

The numerous cases of tent failure because "too small".

I liked the extended description of constant temperature problems with a Zpacks 30deg bag. It seems there may be a problem with the temperature rating on this bag, because — on some nights I was too cold, but other nights I was too warm.

A runaway winner in the clothing category:
"My pants became so big on me so it was uncomfortable because it kept falling."

And finally, an honest mea culpa…
"I did not bring rain gear, and it rained…."

"With all the inexperienced folks out there (we saw poop/toilet paper EVERYWHERE!), I wouldn't drink it unpurified, but my Steripen worked perfectly."

This is disappointing to read. I've done the JMT 3 times, last as recent as 2012, and it always seemed quite clean. I've not treated water in that area of the Sierra. But, I know there has been a massive increase in JMT trips in recent years. I don't know if the problem is inexperienced people or just numbers. There are only so many places you can dig a cat hole, only so many rocks you can poop under. Seems like it might be time for the USFS/NPS to put in some pit toilets at popular camp areas. I was just in NZ and there are public toilets EVERYWHERE, including frequently along most trails even way in the backcountry. This seems smart.

First off, that is awesome! I have never seen so many absolutely bad "reviews" in one spot… I started reading them, but quickly saw that it wasn't reviews as much as folks proving that they either didn't know how to use their gear, never used it, or just expected it to be something it was not…

After reading through the comments on here about the Sawyer filters, I went over and checked them out… Let me begin by saying that I am not surprised that "Sawyer" came up on the list as much as it did. Simply because of the low price, and the fact that they can be found almost anywhere now, it's no wonder that most folks buy them… Now, combine that with the fact that most of these folks also don't understand the first thing about it, and it's no surprise that they are one of the most mentioned filters on this list (although, to be fair, there were plenty of other filters listed too…)

Anyway, it looks like there are at least as many folks (or more maybe) complaining about the bags and the connections than there are complaining about the actual Sawyer filters, and then, it is about both, the Squeeze and the Mini…

Now, I will admit, I am a bit biased towards my Sawyer Mini, and was so with my Squeeze until I swapped it in for the Mini. Saying that though, I do agree, for either model, it seems to be a hit or miss. I have hiked with others that have had both, a new Squeeze, and then another time, another friend with a new Mini, and the flow was less than desirable. Also, one of my other buddies Squeeze severely slowed down on him after using it for some time (although, after a good long soak in some warm water, the flow returned almost back to what it was when new). But thankfully, I have had nothing but good luck with both of mine.

As well, I should mention that pretty much all of my hikes with the Mini have been less than 5 days in length, with most being 3 days long, however, for all of these hikes, I never carried the syringe to backlash in the field, and never have needed it. I also haven't used a prefilter either though. All of the water was collected either directly in the Sawyer bag in a (somewhat) flowing stream, or by using a cut down Smartwater bottle to dip and pour (another solution to the many disgruntled hikers on the list…) Either way, I know that there was at least some sediment in the water, but never enough to cause me any worry. After returning from the hike, I then backlash with about 5 – 10 syringes full of clean water, and on occasion will backflush one last time with a syringe with a little bleach added… let that sit for about 30 minutes to an hour and then backlash a couple more times to remove any bleach residue.

So, I have been thrilled with my Sawyers, and will replace them with more should I ever need too, but I will be sure to always have a back up since any filter can fail…

Re: " I don't know if the problem is inexperienced people or just numbers. There are only so many places you can dig a cat hole, only so many rocks you can poop under. Seems like it might be time for the USFS/NPS to put in some pit toilets at popular camp areas."

It's both, as when the numbers increase, the likelihood of inexperienced or inconsiderate BPers will increase.

As for the forest agencies doing something, the trend is way in the other direction.

To both relieve the problem and increase our own enjoyment, we should seek out more remote areas. In places like Colorado that is not so much a problem. It would be hard for a working stiff to get around to all the great places in one lifetime.

Back here in the NE US, and many other areas as well, it is a problem. So new trails are sprouting up all over. Join a trail club and pitch in. In our club, our President and his Dad have made a specialty of building composting toilets for the trail. Governmental agencies are helpful and cooperative, but apparently not able any more to do the hands-on work. It's up to us if we want to have solitary and beautiful places to continue to BP.

It works for me, and I and many others avoid the national parks and other crowded areas for our own enjoyment, and to take some of the pressure off as well. I've found other areas to be just as inspiring and rewarding, much more so with their solitude and preserved natural beauty. Bushwacking and other off-trail hiking is also a great alternative where lyme ticks and other nasties are not prevalent, and it's a rewarding challenge to develop the skills involved. It's also great to be able and stop and chat with the first person seen in several days. A different experience entirely from what is often related on this site and so often found in over-used areas.

I certainly can appreciate the effort in gathering and putting together this gear review but honestly after reading a few sections I cant say that it offers much in actual help or information that I would rely on. IMO much of it is just user error and great expectations.

After reading the pack and shelter failure sections I just skimmed the rest. Too many not admitting fault or only partial fault. What struck me most was anyone can buy a bunch of UL gear but that doesn't mean it will be used with the proper care. Of course my gear of 25 yrs ago was more durable but I do just fine with my new UL stuff but it takes a lot more consideration using it. I have seen so much stuff in general in my lifetime that was ham fisted and the users were quick to dismiss it as junk. Hell, before they muck it up, send it to me. I will be happy to see it through years of good use. To dismiss gear for lack of understanding its fragility would leave me with pretty much an empty pack. Blow up air pad, hyper light quilt/bag materials, Lt WT clothing and shelter fabrics, filter that can freeze and needs backwashing… If I step on my starlyle do I blame the stove for not holding up to my weight? Or accept "partial fault". No way man, that's on me, the stove is killer gear.

If only they did a bit of homework here at BPL to gather more useful user information and evaluations of the gear they carried I would guess the failures would have been cut by a large measure :) Starting over left me relying on a lot of reviews from this crowd but more than that the information on how best to deploy the equipment. No one here gave me the illusion that I could use "Ferrari" like UL gear like a "dump truck".

jimmyb

Most of the failures seem like things that happen to beginners. But there are several zippers breaking (possible due to abuse) and shoes coming apart.

One guy apparently dumped 25 lbs of gear he did not need! And another comment is about a friend who had an extra stove.

But despite heavy loads, being cold, uncomfortable shoes, and uncomfortable packs, I bet most of the people surveyed will say they had a great time :)

Actually its only been in the last few years where BPL IMO has had more "common sense" in regards to use and durabilty

I remeber when i first joined i would get flambeed for recommending synthetic for damper environments … Never mind fleece

Many would simply say something like "fleece/synth is too heavy and youre too overweight if you carry it, down works no matter what"

Also they would claim that their 7D shelled 900 fill down jackets would last for decade because down lasts a long time

Then there were packs …. Woe to you if you recommended or use even a minimally framed pack … Nothing but frameless packs from a cottage manufacturer would do !!!

Of course a tarp and bivy was the optimum shelter for every use, you were a "traditional" heavy dino if you use anything but that

And then there was the lastest cottage gear and brand hysteria where folks were told just to go buy this or that cottage pack without even asking about the fit … Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didnt

And if you werent wearing UL minimal zero drop barefoot trail shoes you were going to be crippled from knee problems i a few years …

If you wore out that UL gear or expressed concerns you were a serial abuser of gear would was absolutely reckless because UL gear lasted just as long or longer than "normal gear" as all BPL knows

I think slowly folks realized that perhaps what all the highly experienced hardcore experts were doing might not have been right for then … What works for ueli steck the great skurka, and killian jornet might not work well or ben be dangerous for a not in great shape weekend and holiday warrior … Especially if they are fairly new

After a few delaminated UL jackets, some shoes that dont work the best, packs that might not be enjoyable to wear, fabric that abrades trough a bit quickly …. Many of us now realize that whats on the intraweb forums or online might not be accurate reflections of real life use

I personally think the turning point was the "stupid light" by the great skurka

Of course new folks likely need to go through the same learning process

How the marketers run their hands in glee !!!

;)

Eric, if you read the survey, you'll still see lots of the failures are with "traditional" gear

What thread is Eric's post about?