Best Portable Charger

ahhhh

but the "billions" of them are mostly in pre-packaged backs and devices where you dont take out the individual batteries … these have protection that is built in on the device/pack and you dont remove the bat …

use of loose individual cells, especially unprotected ones, are much lower

any lithium bat can go KABOOM when proper handling procedures are not followed, or even if they are …

theres one that happened last week

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/colo-lost-taste-flashlight-explodes-mouth-article-1.2083725

A Colorado man may have lost his sense of taste after a flashlight exploded as he held it in his mouth.

But the gadget then suddenly blew up.

more at link …

-There are many posts on the solar cell/battery question, and the quick answer is that it is hard to justify cells over batteries for less than 7-10 days.

-If you do take cells then you may not need much battery power at all, potentially in the case of this discussion only ONE 18650, and just top-off each night. But you don't need both, be clear on your strategy.

-For my meager iPhone + steripen needs in summerish southern/mid sierra I can actually get by with 2 watts of cell power. In a lot of places the off-the-backpack charging does not work well. But combine that with an hour downtime here and there where you can get good sun exposure and 2 watts is OK, and 5 watts is turbo speed. A fast dawn to dusk hiker with no downtime may need at least 5 watts. I like taking half days off and swimming/ hanging out, so watt power is not a big issue for me.

Eric, if we watch closely about that Colorado accident, it wasn't a type-18650 battery. To me, it appeared to be something small.

Hmmm. Maybe I can make a camera strobe flash out of that.

–B.G.–

i hate yr gear and i hate yr UL stuff but all i think about L day long is gear. but i super duper do stuff outside srsly.

Eric, if we watch closely about that Colorado accident, it wasn't a type-18650 battery. To me, it appeared to be something small.

it was a lithium battery … possibly a RCR123 lithium … regardless it was a rechargeable lithium

the interesting part is that it might even be a LiFePO4 battery, the one with the supposedly "safe" chemistry

its doesnt matter if its a "18650" bat or not … the chemistry are the same between li-on (cobalt) bats sizes … other than that the main other types of rechargeables are LiFePO4 (ferrophospjhate) and IMR (maganese) which are supposed to be "safer"

heres another one that happened last week …

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Dangers-of-e-cigarettes-when-not-used-correctly/RDIROMgzU0S4sli6cw_J7w.cspx?rss=3298

Washoe County School District Police are investigating and two students could face criminal charges after an explosion at Sparks High School. Investigators say an electronic cigarette caused the explosion and fire Monday morning.

Although some devices power on using what looks like a typical battery, the difference is serious. "And if you take one of the regular lithium ion batteries that you get at Batteries Plus, it’s the same size because all batteries are standardized into sizes, it’s the same size, it cannot handle that discharge rate, and the battery will just go crazy and blow sometimes."

note that i use loose lithium batteries myself … however when youre handling and charging them this requires more care than most folks are used to with "normal" bats ..

unless folks are well familiar with those safe handling and charging practices (which reduce, not eliminate the risk), and they should be aware of them regardless … then protected bats are wise

especially when yr outdoors fumbling with a bat change/charge in the dark when yr cold tired and hungry in a rainstorm … mistakes happen

and use quality bats and chargers (be wary of fakes, all the major brands have been faked)

but thats just my intrawebz rant …

Can anybody translate for me what Eric posted? Google Translate can't seem to pick out the language. It's that or else his SHIFT key is broken.

–B.G.–

Can anybody translate for me what Eric posted? Google Translate can't seem to pick out the language. It's that or else his SHIFT key is broken.

really bob? … ya gotta resort to that?

oh well …

ferrophospjhate ?

gotta?

yr?

–B.G.–

attack the messenger not the message bob?

ive go no desire to get into an personal attack flamewar with you =P

heres the "flames" that should matter

http://www.middevonstar.co.uk/news/national/11575077.E_cigarettes_linked_to_100_fires/

Electronic cigarettes have been linked to more than 100 fires, new figures reveal.

much more at link …

theres many more "incidents" with Li-On batteries i can post up for ya bob … regardless of shift keys

>> Electronic cigarettes have been linked to more than 100 fires, new figures reveal.<<

That's just like "real" cigarettes! (OK, maybe a bit more explosive, but the fire statistics are probably pretty similar)

Smokers just can't win!

mike …

the difference is that these are from chargers and the bats (our discussion topic)… generally not from the open flame like normal cig fires

not to mention there are no safety standards for those ecigs …

no one will stop using li-on bats

however theres no reason to sweep the risk, safe handling practices, and getting gear that might offer a bit more "protection" under the rug

"note that i use loose lithium batteries myself … however when youre handling and charging them this requires more care than most folks are used to with "normal" bats ..

unless folks are well familiar with those safe handling and charging practices (which reduce, not eliminate the risk), and they should be aware of them regardless … then protected bats are wise"

So can you boil those safe practices down to a paragraph or two for those who just want the bottom line?

"but the "billions" of them are mostly in pre-packaged backs and devices where you dont take out the individual batteries … these have protection that is built in on the device/pack and you dont remove the bat …"

How many are loose? 100 million? Still seems like an incredibly low rate of incidents. That USFA report you posted earlier agrees. "Battery failures, manifested as small explosions and fires, have occurred. Considering the vast number of products in the field that use lithium-ion batteries, however it is clear that the failure rates are low." With 2.5M e-cig users in the US and only 25 reports of incident in the last five years, it makes sense to me.

"So can you boil those safe practices down to a paragraph or two for those who just want the bottom line?"
– use a dedicated 18650 charger with over charge protection
– like any battery, keep them dry
– either your battery or the device your using it in should have a protection circuit
– when storing outside of your device, do not let the batterys contacts touch other items
– have the bomb squad phone# in your emergency contacts list :)

Ryan

"So can you boil those safe practices down to a paragraph or two for those who just want the bottom line?"

-use protected batts-

ryan ,,,

that report itself says that list is not comprehensive and that many incidents do not get captured and reported

as an example refer back to the UK fire services article i posted, which by itself is not complete either, where they have an ecig fire (mostly bats and chargers) every week and its increasing in frequency … with over 100 the last 2 years

as for "safety practices"

– use quality bats from reputable suppliers … which means be careful of fakes on the normal places

– use a quality smart charger … do not cheap out as most incidents happen on recharging, make sure the bats and charger are compatible … and this includes cheap knockoff USB plugs for USB chargers, dont get those

– do not put the cells in the wrong way … while most quality devices have polarity protection … cheaper ones might not and charging cells with the polarity reversed can be very bad

– do not leave cells charging after they are full, quality chargers should have over voltage protection, but even then there no reason to keep em in .. cheap chargers can go KABOOM

– do not leave charging unattended … several of the fires i posted started when the person was sleeping .. if something does happen when charging, which is the most common issue … be there to deal with it quickly, or maybe its better not to be there if it goes KABOOM … your choice !!!

– do not put the battery in any situation where it can be shorted …. no loose bats in pockets with metal, no moisture, etc …

– do not put the devices which may not be water resistant in situations where the internals could be shorted, ei wet … remember with unprotected batteries the only protection may be on the device, which if it gets wet inside can develop a short

– do not damage the bat physically … if it does it can explode … i can post up cases where folks sat and bent their iphones where it combusted … or the tesla which hit some road debris on its batteries and flamed up

– if getting lose bats, for our normal BPL uses, get protectected bats … they costs around 2-3$ more normally, if yr worried about length zebralight themselves sell a 67mm protected bat just for this reason

– do not expose to high heat or charge when its very cold out generally (unless the manufacturer of the product says otherwise) … in other words dont leave that device running at full capacity out in the summer sun all day all the time … keep away from fires

– be careful of multiple bats … there multiple instances of them going KABOOM when used in lights, including the accident i posted above … if you do use protected if possible … even normal non rechargeable lithiums can explode this way … always use tested cells with similar voltage in a multicell device unless the device says otherwise (smart charger for example)

– do not let the voltage go under a certain threshold …. which means if a bat dies from self discharge dont try to use it if it wont charge anymore … the protection circuits whether on the device and bat have undervoltage cut offs for a reason … for longer term storage it means you should check an charge your bats every now and then … also for longer term storage it might be a good idea to take that battery out if parasitic drain is a problem

– do not use a battery that has ballooned or grown in size … the battery is damaged

there may be more than that, its early in the morning and i need caffeine

now much of this might seem like "common sense" … but the consequences of mishandlings are MUCH more serious than NiMH or alkalines bats usually … not to mention you can easily screw up when yr cold tired hungry in the dark and wet

also not using cheap no name made in china parts is NOT common sense sometimes …. im a fan of cheaper goods as everyone knows … but you are really taking a risk with some if these parts with lithium bats, especially unprotected ones

heres a recent report …

Counterfeit chargers pose a safety hazard as well as a hazard to your phone. You can buy a charger that looks just like an Apple charger for about $2, but the charger is nothing like an Apple charger internally. The power is extremely bad quality (as I will show below). But more importantly, these chargers ignore safety standards. Since chargers have hundreds of volts internally, there's a big risk if a charger doesn't have proper insulation. You're putting your phone, and more importantly yourself, at risk if you use one of these chargers. I did a teardown of a counterfeit charger, which shows the differences in detail.
I've taken apart several counterfeit chargers and readers have sent me photos of others. Surprisingly, the counterfeit chargers I've examined all use different circuitry internally. If you get a counterfeit, it could be worse or better than what I've seen.

The following picture shows a counterfeit charger that burned up. The safety issues with counterfeits are not just theoretical; when hundreds of volts short out, the results can be spectacular.

http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

heres a more recent incident where the doctor thought they suffered a gunshot wound

A smoker has been left seriously injured in hospital after an e-cigarette blew up and nearly tore off his legs.
David Aspinall was using the device when it overheated and exploded, sending shards of metal tearing into his limbs and setting his home on fire.
Emergency services arriving at the home of 48-year-old Mr Aspinall, in Wigan, Greater Manchester, initially confused his injuries with gunshot wounds.
The ex-decorator, who lost nearly a litre of blood as he staggered to a neighbour’s for help, spent nine days in hospital and must have three years of skin grafts to repair his right leg.
Mr Aspinall told the Sun how he feared he was “at death’s door”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11158544/Smokers-legs-nearly-blown-off-by-exploding-e-cigarette.html

theres much more incidents i can keep posting ….

at the end of the day "protection" on loose bats can add another layer of safety …. the cost is minimal … and most BPLers dont need the high drain that folks forgo the protection for …

also note that the best you can do is reduce the risk … a few years ago there were bad batches of lithium and li-on bats …. when its from the factory safe handling may not keep you "safe" … fortunately quality manufacturers have been focusing on getting the bats and protection devices better

which is why you always buy quality bats and chargers

>> -use protected batts- <<

Not a helpful comment since the discussion was what's the best portable power supply.

The Miller charger/battery bank is the best solution for light weight backpacking and is designed to take unprotected cells (it will not take protected cells)

The Miller is the lightest, highest output solution.
It's reasonably priced.
It has protected circuitry (it's designed for unprotected cells).
It allows you to carry extra batteries
And… it's duel use. If you need to start a fire in an emergency, the unprotected cells can be used for that as well.

So why would anybody use unprotected cells? Because we want the lightest solution that provides the best power output. That is the Miller and so the battery choice is non-negotiable.

I guess light-weight backpackers are also risk-takers, we do everything we can to mitigate risk, but in the end, our choices are guided by considerations other than safety (just like rock climbers!)

I think the Miller charger is great.

Virtually every lithium charger that I have seen has a decent circuit in it. They all have some sort of reverse-polarity protection. They all have dead battery rejection. They all charge up the weak battery at a normal rate. They all have a proper cut-off voltage around 4.2V. They all continue to trickle charge at an extremely low rate until the battery is removed.

I found one lithium charger that fails the above standards, so I don't use it.

"If you need to start a fire in an emergency, the unprotected cells can be used for that as well."

Yes, how would we do that? I would attach a couple of alligator jumpers for the positive and negative ends. Then I would bridge the gap between those jumpers with about one inch of magnesium ribbon. As soon as the circuit is complete, the magnesium will see such a current surge that it will burst into flame. But then that opens the circuit, so the battery won't be pumping out current after the first second. Is there a better way to do this? If one inch of magnesium ribbon has too little resistance, then we could slow it down with a longer length. Basically, it is a magnesium fuse.

–B.G.–

So why would anybody use unprotected cells? Because we want the lightest solution that provides the best power output. That is the Miller and so the battery choice is non-negotiable

mike …

i have posted up about the risks … what you folks do is your own business

but the risk and consequences of lithium ion bats, especially when there no protection is very real

the miller may be a decent charger … but unless you always keep the bat in, never take it out, and in fact tape it in so it doesnt fall out … theres always that risk using unprotected bats

as to the "weight"

the ENB dual cell (which can use a single cell as well) weights 44g, the new version takes up to 70mm bats … it is well reviewed and the previous version was tested by a popular review site …

http://www.fasttech.com/products/1421/10002784/1681400-enb-2-18650-usb-emergency-charger-power-bank

the miller weights 32 g … thats a difference of 12g + 3g (bat protection circuit) … so 15 g difference

everyone will go off and argue about this and that on the intrawebz

as i said before … i simply lay out the risks, the actual incident reports, and the facts about safe handling and use which you can go find on reputable sites

what you do is your own business

but my opinion is that for 15g … theres no real reason to use unprotected for normal BPL use especially when you can get a dual bay charger with battery level indicator and which will fit protected bats … you have protection on the bats and the charger, should one fail

not to mention thats in the comparison theres no chance the bat will fall out

as to risks in climbing … some folks climb with a rope, others without a rope …

using a rope doesnt make u safe … but if yr climbing without a rope you better darn well know what you are doing and dont screw up …. there no backup plan if you fall

;)

@Bob – My comment about lighting a fire with an 18650 was an obviously poor attempt at humor… I was thinking you could short out an unprotected cell and let it catch on fire. Your method sounds like a better idea!

To try and keep this thread on track, I'd point out that I own two eNB Battery Banks and use them all the time. They are my preferred battery bank when NOT backpacking.

I will however point out that while pack weight is very important to me, a very small pack volume has always been my primary concern. The eNB charger is about twice the size of the Miller. The weight of the eNB is a bit heavier than the Miller but it takes up more space.

So when I backpack, I take the Miller battery bank.

Just to say that it really only needs 5mins with a scalpel to modify the Miller ML-102 to accept protected cells.

There are 2 strips on the back of the casing that need trimming off, the – connection also needs a little more space.

Have tried trimming and doing several different solutions, easiest though is just to crush the – terminal with a pair of pliers.
This has the effect of bending in the – tab and pushing is the casing slightly.

Sounds like a bit of a bodge, but it works.
I've been carrying my "modified" ML-102 daily for the last couple of years

Another option is to use 26650 cell's.
Advantage with these is that they go to 5200mAh capacity

Disadvantage is they are very tight in the ML-102 they also need to be held in by something to be secure.
I use a small piece of MTB inner tube

Been carrying this setup daily for around the last 3 months, works great

"that report itself says that list is not comprehensive and that many incidents do not get captured and reported"

You posted the report, Eric. If its comprehensive enough to back your position, it's comprehensive enough to support mine. Sorry, that's how it works.

FWIW, I agree with you that these batteries need extra care and the consequences of improper care or charging are greater than with many other common batteries. I only disagree with the sentiment that they are a ticking time bomb ready to explode any second.

Ryan

One of my other hobbies is radio controlled craft, i've been using lithium based batteries for around 15 years, as i'm usually out at least 1 day a week faffing with one of these craft that's a fair few hours sent around, with, charging and using lithium based cells.

One of my other interests is flashlights, i have carried a 18650 based torch with non protected batteries daily for many years, this through Greek summers and English winters.

Yes there are risks, but then there are risks with pretty much any type of battery, they all store energy, energy that is quickly released if there is a problem.
I've seen NiMh based cells literally explode.
I've witnessed a car get burnt to a shell because a AA battery failed while the owner was charging it on his passenger seat.

So caution needs to be taken, but that's really no different than any other cell chemistry, lithium cells tend to fizz like a Catherine wheel rather than explode.
Of course if you pop them into a sealed container that holds that expending energy them all bets are off.

BUT that sealed container also protects the cell from physical damage, so unless you are charging your cell in said container (or torch) the chances of it failing are extremely slim.

With regards to protected v unprotected the protection is there mainly to protect the battery rather than the user.
If a lithium cell is drained too far then it means it has a LOT less energy to expend, so a low voltage cell would offer very little risk.
The biggest risk is when the cell is overcharged, this is when most failures occur.

It's not just as it's charging either.
If you charge a cold cell in a cold environment then warm that cell up the chemistry becomes more efficient so the cell will over voltage, but then it will over voltage if it's a protected or unprotected cell simple because the energy is already stored inside the cell so the protection circuit can do nothing.

I've also seen protection circuits fail which in one case caused a dead short.

For me personally in multi-cell applications like bigger torches i use protected cells, for single cell application like smaller torches and in this case the ML-102 i just pick up whatever comes to hand easier, there are no real world advantages for me in this situation.

Should clarify though that i NEVER leave my ML-102 charging unsupervised, but then i never leave ANY batteries charging unsupervised

they arent "ticking time bomb" …

but they do go KABOOM in the wrong circumstances

lets put it simply

i remember in grade school we would take "regular" bats and do science experiments with them … the little kids we were we shorted them, threw em on water, etc .. all for fun … this was decades ago

would anyone here give unprotected loose li-on bats to kids in science class for the same purposes today? … many folks dont realize that these loose bats shouldnt be treated as "normal" bats

most folk use li-on every day … but those are almost alway built in power packs or devices (not loose) with built in protection …

all im saying is that

– loose bats require very diligent handling especially if they are unprotected

– li-on bats requires proper charging procedures

– dont buy cheap bats or chargers

– unless you need the high amperage draw … there really is no good reason not to get protected bats … every quality headlamp will take protected bats, and there are quality chargers that are light and well priced that will as well

how many folk who are new to loose li-on bats actually read up and understand safe handling procedures?

if its anything like climbing forums … theyll go online and ask someone if its "safe" … then theyll go out and believe it is … you see this all the time where folks take "safety" advice from folks on the intrawebs theyve never met or know

IMO you should NOT take any of my advice but go and do your own research from reputable sites and manufacturers … not some forum

at the end of the day folks use what they want and its up to them

With regards to protected v unprotected the protection is there mainly to protect the battery rather than the user.

mark …

the overvoltage protection in theory should cut the circuit at a certain voltage … as most li-on issues are caused by charging .. it should protect the cell against overcharging in normal circumstances, of course you should also use a quality charger

here is a test of an ENB 3 cell pack (or a copy/fake) which is a brand/type with good internet reviews … it should have the proper overcharge protections

if you watch the video … the voltage jumps to ~4.24v and still climbing before its disconnected for safety reasons … and the tester claims its been as high as 4.38v before he disconnected it ….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-0YiS7tkCI

its very possible that this is a faulty charger (or a fake/copy) … however if you depended solely upon the chargers termination you might have a serious issue without realizing it until its too late … protected bats in this case might help you

the protection on consumer devices is definitely there to protect the consumer ….

Battery packs for laptops and other portable devices contain many levels of protection to assure safety under (almost) all circumstances when in the hands of the public

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_circuits_for_modern_batteries

if you really want to "split hairs" over it you can argue that an undamaged cell due to protection triggering (saving the bat) is one that didnt go KABOOM

however as you stated they can only help with external factors … if theres something wrong with the battery internally then it wont help

one thing that panasonic bats have is an HRL that theoretically protects against a dead short regardless

as to venting … theres quite a few cases where the bats have been in a container which cant vent well … and suddenly that IPX8 flashlight or ecig becomes a pipebomb

;)

I have two questions about modifying the Miller to accept protected cells:
-Is there any chance that the Miler is purposely too short to prevent the use of a protected cell?
-The Miller and other chargers have very study plastic housings, and a similar device, the Xtar S01, lists in its description that the plastic is "fire-proof". Does anyone see a danger in stripping the circuitry out of the plastic housing so as make a lighter DIY housing? My batts have never gotten very hot in this charger, so I doubt the extra heat I have witnessed would harm the circuitry. But I don't know, there might some other reason these housings are so robust-

Now Mark has me worried about a bodge.

That's another thing that I can't translate.

It must be something like a kludge.

Eric and Mark may have to duke it out (that means to resort to fisticuffs to settle an argument).

–B.G.–