Advanced-Beginner Trips in the GC?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but are you guys talking about SuperFeet?

Thanks for the correction Greg, I meant Superfeet.

Ok, if folks want some details "in public", I have no problem doing so (I just didn't want to bore people).

For some reason, we have always done the loop clockwise — that is Bill Hall, Esplanade, Surprise Valley, Thunder River, Upper Tapeats Creek, Lower Tapeats Creek, River Route (once we went back over Surprise Valley), Deer Creek, Surprise Valley, Esplanade, Bill Hall.

One could easily do the loop the other way — the only disadvantage is that for a first-timer, it would be more difficult to find the River Route from the Deer Creek side (because the route actually meets Deer Creek above the narrows; not at the river).

Let's see… tips & tricks. I'd recommend making two water caches on the way down: a small one at the trail junction (but hide your water a bit off-trail, slightly away from the junction); and a second, larger one just before you descend the red wall at the edge of the Esplanade (that one could be large enough for you to spend the night, if you wish) — again, hide it just slightly off the trail. Do NOT cache food — the ravens WILL find it and destroy it.

Try either to camp near the Bill Hall trailhead, or get up frightfully early and drive out there. GC sun is hot, even when the temperatures are mild. I think you should be able to get from the rim to the Upper Tapeats campground (primitive, pit toilet) on the first day — include a nice, long stop at the Thunder River source (a side trail on your left as soon as you have descended most of the way off the edge of Surprise Valley). Spend plenty of time soaking up the micro-climate created by the mist and thundering falls, then cruise into Upper Tapeats for the night.

The following morning, take the trail down to the Colorado River at Lower Tapeats. Check for bighorn sheep — I've seen them there. Tank up with water, because, although you'll be on "The River Route", you'll be high above the water!

At the river, make a right, and rock-hop your way along the shore until you come to the beginning of the route that climbs sharply (avoiding the gorges). Many years ago, the route was very faint, and it was easy to wander onto animal trails that went nowhere. Nowadays, the route is very clear and "trail-like", with cairns and a very well-beaten path.

Continue to follow the river route until you finally descend into the Deer Creek area. The campground will be upstream (to your right on the other side of the creek); the narrows is downstream (or to your left). Depending on how much time you've spent on the River Route, you may/may not want to go exploring, but bag a campsite first (it can get a bit busy).

Don't be discouraged by all the boaters hanging around — they'll disappear in the late afternoon. Whether you're exploring on the day you arrive, or the next morning, be sure to enjoy the beauty of the narrows (look for the pictograph of the hands high on the wall), then descend down to the river and enjoy stunning Deer Falls (one of the highest in GC).

When you've explored lower Deer Canyon, head out past the campsites, stopping to tank up on water at Deer Spring (just to the right of the trail, once you've climbed a bit from the creek). Then the trail continues climbing up near a dry creek bed to Surprise Valley. In Surprise Valley, make sure you go left (or north) at the first trail junction (if you blow it, you'll have an extra half-mile or so for no reason). Take the trail as it climbs up the red wall, to the Esplanade. Get your large water cache, and spend the night somewhere on the beautiful Esplanade sandstone (near any one of the funky eroded hoodoo shapes). In the morning, it'll be a relatively short hop to the trail junction (pick up small water cache), and back to the car.

As for footwear — you should be just fine in trail runners. Some folks would be fine in those barefoot shoes, but I think they're nuts! ;^) The top of the Bill Hall trail tends to have a lot of small, loose rocks which make it a bit tricky on the way down; don't worry about the little 10-ft dropoff on the white wall — if you don't want to downclimb it, there's an easier route to the left side.

It's really a spectacular trip. Bring a "real" camera (aot a cell phone only). Lots to see and do!

Wearing boots for spiny plants, when you are already comfortable with barefoot shoes, is just silly. Get some lightweight shoes that are made from leather or a tight nylon.

Justin, nobody has said that boots are essential on-trail, or that plants are the only reason to consider boots.
But off-trail in the GC can be a different story. Last week I was in Trinity on the Tonto platform (in trail runners). There are extensive areas, solid acres continuously packed like this (this is probably the exact area I was in, it looks like Shiva and Isis in the background):
http://www.drexmillerphotography.com/pages/farther/west/grand-canyon/zoom/djmgc240_cactus_tonto_platform_grand_canyon.html

Sure, I got through it undamaged, sometimes jumping from space to space… but not fun at all. Don't be so dismissive unless you've experienced the conditions. Plants can be vicious in the wilderness areas of the canyon.

"Wearing boots for spiny plants, when you are already comfortable with barefoot shoes, is just silly. "

There are a multitude of cactus along the trails and routes of the GC. You learn quickly to step high and wide, heel to butt, then extending forward.

I wear mesh top trail runners (Lone Peak's) and do ok. But I have been stabbed, and spent 20 minutes removing all of the spines from my foot and most of the spines from my shoe. It's the spines in the shoe that are the problem. They lodge between the layers of liner and mesh and are Really Difficult to find. You put on your shoe, walk 15 steps. Swear. Stop. Look. Try again.

And this is on the Tonto. Follow a "route", or travel cross-country, and the chance for disaster increases dramatically. Do not discount the potential for misery. It is real.

It might be infrequent, but it can be a show stopper.

"Sure, I got through it undamaged, sometimes jumping from space to space… but not fun at all."

I do believe we have just found justification for adding a 4th category to Skurka's definition of "fun". JEEZUS, does that ever look nasty.

All those big spines you see … you can deal with them. As Ralph mentions above, it's the glochids –

– by the dozens, that are the bane of a misstep.

They are small, friable, and amazingly painful. When you feel them as they work their way through the mesh of your shoe you know it's going to be a long day.

There's no cholla in the GC, ergo all cactus issues are by definition mild.

Not found in GC, but widespread across Arizona.

The Teddy Bear Cholla is also known as the "Jumping Cholla" for good reason. It is the most insidious cactus of them all. Most who aren't familiar with the plant learn the hard way when the Cholla gets them with one of its sneak attacks.

One of the Teddy Bear's favorite tricks is to let you step on one of its loose balls that have fallen to the ground. You inadvertently step on it not knowing that it has now become a hitch-hiker on your shoe. Then all of a sudden BAM, a Cholla has stabbed you in the calf with about 20 or so prongs. Now the Cholla ball is stuck onto your calf with a hold that is hard to imagine unless you've experienced it.

Don't dare try to pull out the barbs gently, or one at a time. The best way to deal with it is to take a solid stick and rip the ball off with one swift motion.

Or use a comb

Hmmm okay y'all are definitely making me reconsider the boots! The Zephyrs have been recommended to me before, I had forgotten. I'm heading to REI tomorrow so I'll try some things on.

Valerie I am printing everything you wrote out for reference! you're amazing! What's your input on the cactus situation of that specific loop?

Question (for anyone): what's the best way to stash water? I've never had to do that before on a trail. Just leave my name on it? Hide it somehow? What kind of container would be best? I have an extra platypus bag or two.

Glochids are way to fine for a comb. Tweezers are the way to go.

Keep in mind that if you are careless in boots, you'll get stabbed later when you handle them. And like trail runners, you don't want them close to your inflatable air matt.

All that aside, as I mentioned, I hike the GC in Lone Peaks. Both on trails and cross country. I'm just careful where I put my feet. NBD. Unless you learn it the hard way.

Lydia, we're getting a bit OTT on cactus scare stories – it's something to be aware of if you get addicted to GC (as you no doubt will) and end up getting progressively more adventurous with your itinerary. But for what you're planning, you'll be find in trail runners if that's what your comfortable in. Just keep your eyes open and have tweezers just in case. Bleary-eyed drips off-trail to dig catholes are the times to watch out.

I do use platys to cache water, just because of the unbeatable weight for capacity. I'll often head off with half a dozen empty 2L platys in my pack. However, I have had rodents chew into them a couple of times. Both times they chewed the rigid caps, not the flexible part – presumably due to food odor transfer from my hands, i.e. not going for the actual water. I wash them thoroughly and now always hang them. I've never had a problem with hung platys – the crows don't seem to be interested fortunately.

But if you're carrying water in to do a cache on the initial hike down, presumably the weight of the container is relatively unimportant, so tough rigid plastic might be better?

I also just try not to be all-eggs-in-one-basket: cache a couple of smaller containers in two different places in case one is compromised or stolen.

So I just got back from a 13-day, mostly off-trail GC adventure (trip report coming whenever I get around to writing it and working on the photos…). I wore La Sportiva Boulder X's, a low-cut approach shoe. Not as breathable as trail runners but they're great on my feet. I had minor soreness on my feet this trip, but I attribute that mostly to our aggressive itinerary.

As for advanced beginner routes . . . my first hike in the GC was a corridor trip. My second, a couple years later, was a solo trip in the Nankoweap area, including an ascent of Nankoweap Mesa and camping on the summit. I wouldn't recommend that as a second hike for everybody (I had TONS of desert and off-trail experience by that point), but it's a great area, and easier to get permits for than some of the other spots mentioned. If you leave a water cache for the return trip it's got good water sources, too.

" I wore La Sportiva Boulder X …"

How did the "uber sticky" soles hold up?

How did the "uber sticky" soles hold up?

Pretty good! They still have at least half their tread left on them. I wouldn't expect them to really last for more than two trips like the one I just did, but I wouldn't expect any shoe I'd be willing to wear to last that long, anyway. They were nearly new when I started the trip and they probably lost 30% of their tread?

Thanks Nick.

I know its a YMMV thing, but they sounds like they're good enough for a try.

those shoes look awesome and your trip sounds intense, so I'm glad to hear your recommendation. can't wait for your trip report as well! looks like I'll have to head back to REI to try some on. Also Ralph thanks for the reminder about the rodents–I've had similar problems.