Too many choices, rain jackets

"I want fabric that won't wet though."

It is not a function of the membrane. You are looking for a jacket with the most durable and "restorable" DWR. Once a jacket is "sheeted" in water, the transport mechanism of the membrane is significantly reduced and you get wet from the inside.

Richard N. posted his observation that 3 weeks of Alaska brush busting was about the maximum before a jacket had to be rivived. (Re-applied, thrown in the dryer, whatever …)

So consider your use, expect to re-store frequently, and be happy to get through a long trip with a functional DWR.

[Edit: From experience, I know that a stuffed jacket, carried in a pack, suffers a lot of DWR and membrane erosion – "dead" before actually getting wet.]

I went through the same exact process… I read specs until I wasn't even sure I was competent to purchase a new rain jacket :P.
I finally decided to just jump off the Merry-Go-Round and go with who I trust. I bought a ZPacks Challenger rain jacket and absolutely love it. This thing is the nicest, lightest, most comfortable rain jacket I've ever had.

I just went through the same process. Just bit the bullet and bought the Zpacks. Hope it's the last rain jacket I own for years.

Hiker speed, metabolism, sweat, and environment all factor into what makes a WPB work, or not. As do “expectations”, and zippers.

This Link to Prolite Gear’s examination of eVent/Cuben breathability is enlightening. Skip to about 4:15. And, the DWR issue is still lurking in the wings.

The is a October 2013 video, so there may have been production changes to improve things.

No ax to grind here. Just sharing some information.

Too many choices indeed. I have 4 different rain jackets, all accumulated throughout the years to try and find a better solution. All I've learned is that every jacket has its drawbacks.
I own:

An ArcTeryx Alpha Beta Super Mega something or other that was very expensive. It's made of Goretex Paclite. The fit and construction is excellent. It's pretty bomber in mixed conditions but in prolonged rain, like most everything I've used, it starts wetting out and getting pretty damp/clammy inside. Breathability is a sham. I use this as a winter storm shell more than anything else. Works great for that. Actual prolonged rain…not so much.

Next up I have an OR Helium II. Light, good fit, definitely worse in breathability than the ArcTeryx. Was jogging in the rain a few nights ago…wetting out inside in less than 15 minutes. But it light and packable. It's my emergency jacket/running jacket for fast/light type stuff. I get soaked in it, but remain warm enough if I'm moving.

I've also got a DriDucks suit. Poor fit, sloppy look….but I swear, I think it's actually the best rainjacket I own. The brushed/soft feeling interior doesn't wet out and get as clammy feeling as the other two. I'm convinced it stays drier inside and does the best job as an actual rain jacket…too bad it so sloppy fitting and fragile around rock and brush. I've actually been very impressed with it in prolonged rain. No DWR to wash off, not clammy feeling.

Finally there's a FroggToggs poncho. When dealing with conditions that permit a poncho (not bushwhacking), it's by far the driest, most functional, most breathable option I have. Last Sierra trip I did with my son he was wearing it while I had the Helium on. After a storm he was bone dry, I was soaked.

Based on my experiences I'm probably going to be ditching rain jackets and pants for general backpacking (especially in the Sierra) and going with a FroggToggs poncho from now on.

Go figure; in my experience the $20 options work better than pricey stuff at actually keeping you dry.

Funny, I think the OR Helium II works fine. Mine is a couple years old now, and I spent many rainy winter and spring days hiking and backpacking around Oregon this year and my Helium II was great. Even after 2 days of 24-hour rain along the Rogue River, the jacket kept me warm and dry (if a bit sweaty at times). I wash it after almost every trip with Atsko Sport Wash.

It'll probably help both yourself as well as everyone on here to give a little about what you're looking for, in terms of important features. Are you looking for something thats lightweight above all else? That favors durability over weight? Cost, cut, features, etc?

I like the Arcteryx line of shells, though they go from the very light / feature poor to the bulletproof / weighty. If you don't care about breathability though, you could always just buy a simple lightweight basic non-breathing shell and call it a day.

"I've also got a DriDucks suit…I'm convinced it stays drier inside and does the best job as an actual rain jacket… No DWR to wash off, not clammy feeling."

+1
I'm leaning this way as well. Breathability is important to me. Going to a DWR-less jacket is worth the try. I'll go prepared to do field repairs. Even if I go through a jacket a year it will be cheaper than anything else over 5 years.

I'm on my third O2 Rainshield jacket, and I will never go back to expensive jackets again. The first two each lasted for an entire thru-hike (PCT/CDT). The Rainshield is more breathable than just about anything except eVent, and it's lighter.

As for sizing, the O2's run big–I wear a medium in everything, but my size M Rainshield is big enough for me to fit a daypack underneath it.

Scott,
Durable enough for 3000 miles sounds pretty good.

Aside from snags or abrasions, where do they tend to fail?

Shoulder seam, armpit seam, zipper or … ?

Craig wrote:

I've also got a DriDucks suit. Poor fit, sloppy look….but I swear, I think it's actually the best rainjacket I own.

+1

I can't agree more. DriDucks and a very very very light baselayer (typically Brynje mesh) will work to keep you reasonably dry and warm down to freezing. After that, I go to a Mammut Paclite hardshell. But for actual rain, DriDucks is way better.

yes there are too many choices, and none of them are especially appealing.

so far so good with Dri Ducks. Only worn it in moderate, on-off, tree-covered rain thus far.

I worry about ripping it, but for lack of an obvious perfect choice it's a fine placeholder.

Greg,

Actually, my PCT jacket lasted for the entire trail plus several subsequent trips. Then I threw it in the washing machine and it came out in tatters. The CDT one was defunct by Canada.

As for failures, the O2 is really 2 layers–there's a yellow outer layer and a white inner one (I'm sure some of the fabric experts here can tell you what those are, but I don't know). I've found that when you snag the jacket, the outer layer sometimes peels lose in places. This did not affect the structural integrity of the jacket but made it easier to wet through in those places. Still, even with some white showing, the jacket kept me pretty dry in rainstorms.

Surprisingly, I've never had a seam or zipper failure of any kind on my O2s. But I'm pretty careful with them nowadays. It did take a little learning to get out of the habit of bashing through brush while wearing the O2 like I would with my "regular" rain jackets in the past.

Supposedly you can easily patch the driducks/O2 jackets with duct tape, but I've never tried it. I've never tried the O2 pants, but I've read that they get shredded fast. It's hard to avoid brush at leg level.

Reviews here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=5159&cat=Clothing%20-%20Raingear&cid=46

Re: Dri Ducks and Frogg Toggs, i mostly agree, besides potential durability issues, they work pretty well, especially considering their prices. I haven't had any O2 stuff, but i've heard it's a bit more durable than the former two.

One of my next projects involves a cheap, kids Poncho made out of Frogg Toggs like material gotten at Target. It's just big enough to fit like a jacket, but with open sides/underarms (i'll wear an open windjacket underneath it).

I have some light weight and very breathable polyester chiffon material (sort of like imitation silk). I'm going to siliconize it (add EPIC like coating). The chiffon is tougher than it looks, it has a higher tensile strength than the non woven, but thicker polypropylene Frogg Toggs like material. The siliconized poly material is going to go on the outside of the Poncho material. Then, i'm going to take some nylon tulle and put it on the inside of the material.

Then, i'm going to take some thin strips of silnylon (maybe an inch or so wide), and sew all the fabric together through the silnylon, using a longer stitch, on the border of the PP poncho material.

I suspect that this will really increase the durability of the Poncho, at not much weight or decrease in breathability. The nylon tulle plus polyester chiffon material adds up to about 1.3 oz/yd2, with silicone coating on the the latter, maybe another .1 or .2 oz. Either way, it still will be pretty light (as the PP material is pretty light to begin with).

I may also sew some silnylon onto the back so i can use it as a pack cover and wear the poncho over straps, which will prolong the life of the material at the shoulders. It's going to look weird, but i don't care.

My DriDucks and FroggToggs are patched with duct tape. Doesn't seem to come off.

would you dry-ducks aficionados recommend them for Colorado monsoon season? I'm planning a CT thru next summer in July and was, of course, pondering changing up my wet-weather gear (from windpants/tights/shorts combo to some sort of actual rain pant; and possibly change up my 2.5 pertex Rab Kinetic (which usually just lives at the bottom of my pack) for my full on eVent Rab Demand.

But perhaps the Dri Ducks might be the better way to go? Thoughts on how it would work for that?

"would you dry-ducks aficionados recommend them for Colorado monsoon season?"
I've found them waterproof, and genuinely breathable, but they are too fragile for me to say "I recommend them".
I've since bought two sets for casual use and keeping in the car, but my last jacket got killed off when I tugged on the zipper pull with two fingertips and the bottom half of the zipper ripped right out of the jacket on one side.
There was a video series that I briefly kept track of from a couple who did the Pinhoti in Alabama, then the AT. They started with Dri-Ducks, and having to use them fairly regularly. I checked in on a later video, and noticed that they weren't using them any more, though I don't know how long they lasted.

I would love to be able to find the material they use for Froggs Toggs / DriDucks rain wear in bulk. A couple months ago I did a lot of internet searching but came up empty. I have the pants but would probably prefer a skirt, er, kilt in the Sierras. I suppose I could just make it out of a poncho, but I hate cutting up perfectly functional pieces of gear.

I modded a DriDucks poncho by taping some small shock cord loops to the back lower corners. I used clear packing tape which appears to hold very well, albeit with no wet tests yet. I did this so I can run a long piece of shock cord through the loops and tie the loose ends in front of me like a belt. This keeps the back of the poncho from flapping around and pulls it up under the bottom of my my pack, depending on how tight I cinch the "belt."

Propore is made by 3M, if that helps narrow your searching. I'm pretty sure that the Uber and Pico bivy's made by Dave at Miles Gear are also Propore – so it must be available somewhere.

Yup, Propore, that's it. I think that the moisture barrier on some mattress pads is also made of it.

I'm not sure where Dave gets his propore stuff, but he did sell some of it here 1-2yrs ago. Seems like it was 1.8oz/yd and he uses a slightly heavier version now. I snagged 15yds of it at the time. Maybe PM him and see if he has some left he'd be willing to part with.

Ryan

I agree with others that the propore based jackets work well but typically suck from a fit perspective and have some durability issues. I also found that the inside of the cuffs would often absorb water leaving my wrists perpetually damp. After going through several propore jackets I switched back to a eVENTDVL jacket, specifically the Westcomb Focus LT. Other than the lack of a drawstring at the bottom I have been super happy with it. Most breathable jacket I have tried

–Mark

Ken–
Is Paramo on your radar?

Frank–
Clelland on making a rain skirt out of the DriDuck pants:
http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com/2012/07/instructional-illustration-rain-skirt.html

Jennifer–
My guess is no on the pants (see above). I sized up to make sure my jacket would fit over a puffy. So the pants were way too big on me. They stayed up, but the fit was awful. But that's not really a fair test.

I switched back to using a poncho. Golite makes a great one. You can probably get it uber cheap now that they are liquidating.

The poncho allows your body to breathe and if you are wearing a pack, can even cover that creating even more air around the body. I learned this watching a Trailside video of Hiking in the- Puerto Rico Rainforest called El Yunque because people wearing gore-tex were miserable and sweaty and those wearing the poncho dry and happy.