Backpacking Solo?

Thanks for the info provided in this thread about Yosemite and some other National Parks prohibiting "possession or use" of bear spray. Pretty weird.

Re discharging a firearm for self-defense in a National Park that prohibits discharging a firearm, here's a recent article about a guy who tried to stop a charging grizzly with bear spray, then shot the bear with his .357 handgun when the bear spray didn't stop the bear; two months later he was cited for discharging a firearm in violation of Glacier NP regulations:

http://tinyurl.com/Self-Defense-vs-Grizzly

Although the US Attorney's office later dismissed the case, the guy perhaps ended up having to pay his lawyer an amount greater than the potential fine.

Greg,

Thanks, and I'll try to avoid feeding the troll. That said, the exercise was interesting to me for several reasons:

I had been unaware of the 2009/2010 change. Even though it had little real-world impact I am still happy to be more up-to-date. It was interesting to see the tactics with which the legislation got passed — no comment on that, since I do not want to start a political debate here. It was also interesting to see how the parks have reacted.

I had not been aware that bear spray was not even legal in the California parks. I always associated it with grizzly country, but I did not know about the legalities.

–MV

Hi all

There has been a rather high number of complaints about this thread, plus suggestions that it should be moved into Chaff.

I have read through the thread carefully, and it seems to me that some of the postings about Park regulations and actual bear encounters do have some value. For this reason I will leave this thread where it is for the present.

Cheers

I want to read Roger's personal opinions about how he deals with grizzly bears.

… or drop bears…

–B.G.–

Stays away from them in his tent…cooking.

;)

no grizzly bears in oz

The drop bear must be the apex predator.

–B.G.–

"The drop bear must be the apex predator."

No, Bob, that would be the Gummy Bear.

"no grizzly bears in oz"

No Sh&t

A "drop" bear is one that gobbles up every drop of your food after he gets into your poorly hung bearbag.

You are MORE likely to suffer injury if you use a firearm against a bear than if you use nothing! When you shoot a brown bear you piss it off. You have attacked it and it will retaliate/defend itself.

The facts:

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

I have done one solo trip, my first winter trip no less. It went better than I thought. Having an adult drink and a book were the keys for me. Hiking solo is no problem at all. Sitting in camp having a book and drink were nice.

I carried a spot, a requirement of my wife.

Larry,
Thanks for sharing the link. I'll re-post it because it has valuable info.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

Disclaimer: it's not my intent or interest to convert or change anyone's mind.

Knowing which tool to deploy (gun versus spray) will be 100% effective at the right moment, is tough to predict, considering adrenalin, marksmanship, duration to neutralize threat, wind, proximity, visibility, sleep level, element of surprise.

There is no single strategy that will accommodate all scenarios.

In case of a stalking bear, the human would ideally have enough time to unpack the pepper spray and be ready to deploy when the bear charges, 25 ft away, and 6 secs lead time.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/files/BearSpray_SafetyforPeople_SafetyforBears.pdf
• Suggested bear spray duration of 6 seconds to deal with a variety of charging scenarios and to adjust for wind.

• Suggested bear spray distance of 25 feet to allow a charging bear to meet the expanding cloud far enough away as possible. This gives the bear time to feel the effects and divert its charge.

The one time I surprised a bear while he was eating sunblock lotion from inside someone's claw-shredded tent, he charged at me and my dog, I got my puppy to sit, I stepped in front on my dog, I raised both of my poles in a crossed X-shape, then I yelled out my loud impersonation of a GROWWWWWWL. The running bear changed direction and leaped onto a tree with agility like a spider monkey.

In case of a person sleeping inside a tent, suddenly awakened by external heavy breathing, then the 6 secs of pepper spray at 25 ft distance is not applicable. What I have done in the past, is yell out "Who's out there?" and "Go away bear!" most of the time it was probably a squirrel, coyote or deer. I listen for the running away animal sound to guess it's weight.
When the animal is persistent, and sniffing around the tent wall, I've tried fist-punching the tent wall may be I get lucky and startle the animal.

I've never had an animal claw its way inside my tent, however pepper spray as defense inside the tent is not the right tool.

Presumably, if you have the misfortune of physical attack and fighting for your life, some say to play dead and take the LAPD beating, then others say that point blank defense with anything nalgene or trek pole, tent stake, knife, stone or brass projectile delivery system.

The scenario we all want to avoid is fear overcoming a startled sleepy camper that fires randomly at shadows.

The lightest handgun available (11.4 oz unloaded, .357 magnum) with enough punch to stop a black bear (or a 2 legged snake) I know a lot of people will say that you need a 44 cal to stop a black bear, but I'd take my chances with a .357 magnum

I own a Ruger LCR 38+P (13.7 oz) and I rarely carry it unless I'm going within 100 miles of the Mexican Border. I'd like to trade up to the S & W PD340, but they retail MSRP for $1030 (exotic expensive materials like scandium)

If I carry anything it's usually a 4 oz bottle of the 2% Oleoresin Capsicum pepper spray by Fox. It's the same strength used in the Counter Assault. I carry it mainly for bad dogs. Still might help stop a bear (better than nothing). Weighs about 6 oz.

That .357 will take a perfectly aimed shot to stop a black bear. I don't know very many people (any?) that good at stress shooting.

Good thing nothing is needed for black bears. :^) It is so unnecessary that Yosemite doesn't even allow hikers to carry bear spray.

I think many people overstate their accuracy with a S&W J frame. I'm sure there are people out there who can reach out and touch some one with one but I've yet to see it. I think they're great for urban self defense as someone can shoot through a purse/manpurse with it without worrying about it coming out of battery or having the hammer catch on something as it's hammerless. Also, shooting .357 through a J frame absolutely sucks. I realize that no one buys a J Frame to enjoy shooting at a range. They're pretty specific in purpose but you'll need to shoot them from time to time to stay current. Yes you can shoot .38 through it but I'm a firm believer of training as you fight so if I were to carry .357, I'd personally want to train with .357.

Your J Frame May Vary.

I'd personally take my chances with quality 9mm or .40 rounds at a higher quantity that are well placed thanks to the longer sight radius of a Glock, M&P, XD, Walther, et al automatic than a mini revolver.

I suspect a larger revolver would be great but probably much heavier. They also tend to be more powerful.

From the automatics, I think a 10mm would be ideal but ammo availability is a PITA so .45 close enough for government work and easier to find.

I'd personally grab my Bear Spray before my pistola (regardless of caliber) if I had a bear charging me due to much higher likelihood of surviving. If a troll at a bridge told me that I had to leave one behind, I'd leave the pistol instead of the bear spray.

That is unless I'm backpacking in 2014 Deliverance Country / Meth Head Edition… Then the troll can pound sand.

"Good thing nothing is needed for black bears."

Couple black bear fatalities already this year.

"Couple black bear fatalities already this year."

Which is very rare. Like I said, Yosemite does not allow bear spray. They have probably the largest number of bear and human encounters in North America.

"The friends told the police they scrambled to get away from the bear, all running in different directions. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/nyregion/black-bear-kills-rutgers-student-during-a-hike-in-new-jersey.html?_r=0

It is quite possible that this incited the bear to give chase and was the cause of the attack.

SELF DELETED

"Presumably, if you have the misfortune of physical attack and fighting for your life, some say to play dead and take the LAPD beating,"

Can't we just all get along? :0(

What a heap of shite…

Packing your fears and inadequacies into the mountains..

Assume irony?

Cynicism?

Pray not sarcasm – that is low…

this was a troll thread (thanks to david drake, who had some posts deleted) that has now turned into the (usual, pointless) gun vs. bear thread. can we just let it end?

Some people like to know what their lightweight options are for personal protection. Fact is that bear attacks are up lately. And it's not just bears. Some places such as the Chiricahuas (near border) can possibly harbor some not so nice people.

I just don't see what wrong with discussing bear attacks if everyone is respectful.

Monte,

That looks like a nice option but my background is 99.9999% automatics and my experiences from shooting wheel guns is from shooting those of my friends and co workers.

One option I've considered, albeit an expensive one, is the Chiappa Rhino. One feature it has that I appreciate is that it shoots from the bottom cylinder instead of the top one. Having a low bore axis is ideal for controlling recoil and muzzle flip for follow up shots and is just much more enjoyable to shoot overall. That's true for any sidearm, revolver or automatic. For example, my Glock has a lower bore axis than my XD is arguably better built and has a couple features that I prefer, the Glock is more enjoyable and faster to shoot so that's what I carry.

Anyways that looks like a great revolver but not my area of expertise. There's been a recent publication from the FBI, which reported both scientific data and anecdotal observations from the ER which concluded that with modern ammunition, the argument between 9mm and 45acp has become moot. Surgeons often times can't tell the difference between them. How much of that translates to critter defense, well I can't say.

This used to be a topic I would avoid due to some of the childish reactions above and accusations of packing fears or compensating for small genitals. I'm not going to re read every comment made before this page but those who are interested in carrying or do carry are discussing this as adults. I see no need to stop to appease those who resort to these childish attacks.

Edit to add: The best sidearm is the one you feel comfortable putting lead on target with. This is of course established by spending time at the range with it and putting it through its paces to ensure accuracy and reliability. It concerns me when people spend hundreds of dollars to buy a sidearm but then don't buy quality ammo or quality holster. All three are important and should be given equal consideration as a poor holster or crap ammo can turn that firearm into a liability instead of an asset.

Edit for fat thumb typos

I often 'backpack' solo. Only during hunting seasons that I have drawn a tag or license, do I carry a firearm. It's my 9.5 lbs. "luxury" item.

30-06 with my 8 oz. Zpack zero. Used a kifaru gun slinger for mulies this year.

And, you guys are 'packing' your fears, literally.) Start a new thread in….

This is still a troll thread. Letting it roll is like negotiations with terrorists. We don't do it in the States. Not sure about policy in oz